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Covid II: Medical Info and Implications


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19 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

This is interesting. The MMR vaccine may protect against covid. Helps explain why kids may not be getting this. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/peer-reviewed-study-mmr-vaccine-131900104.html

“The researchers found a significant inverse correlation (rs = -0.71, P < 0.001) between mumps titers and COVID-19 severity within the group previously vaccinated with the MMR II vaccine by Merck. Mumps titers of 134 to 300 AU/ml (n=8) were only found in those who were functionally immune or asymptomatic. All with mild COVID-19 symptoms had mumps titers below 134 AU/ml (n=17). All with moderate symptoms had mumps titers below 75 AU/ml (n=11). All who had been hospitalized and required oxygen had mumps titers below 32 AU/ml (n=5). Titers were measured by Quest Diagnostics.”

 

Correlation between countries MMR vaccine for adults was pushed and covid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.immunizationinfo.com/mmr-vaccine-may-protect-against-covid-19/amp/

Is Utah's death rate still lower?  It could explain that as well since they test pregnant women and encourage them to get it after pregnancy if they don't show immune.  

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5 hours ago, Rain said:

How common is it to spread viruses back and forth between animals and humans?  Did this happen all the time?

It is very common.  The vast majority of diseases which infect humans are zoonotic. 

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1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

This is interesting. The MMR vaccine may protect against covid. Helps explain why kids may not be getting this. 

1 hour ago, Rain said:

Is Utah's death rate still lower?  It could explain that as well since they test pregnant women and encourage them to get it after pregnancy if they don't show immune.  

Utah's death rate is still lower, but it is highly doubtful that it is due to MMR vaccine. Utah rates 22 in the nation for MMR vaccine coverage (#1 being the best).   I also doubt that MMR explains why kids are not getting as sick.  Adults who are vaccinated with MMR are getting more sick than kids who are not vaccinated with MMR.  Age has already been shown to be an independent factor in morbidity (that means we can't attribute it to MMR or other factors).   If MMR was a factor which explained variance in morbidity between young and old, we would see those children who are not vaccinated with MMR (around 10% or more) of children in our state having more serious morbidity, similar to older people.  We simply aren't seeing that.   

Edited by pogi
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So what should one do if they have completelylost track of vaccinations?

We must have been up to date when we went to Russia in 1995 and I kept up with the kids in Canada, but nothing since 2003 besides flu shots. Is there a table or something that tells us what and when boosters are needed (haven't slept and brain is really misfiring today, so do not want to do research as too close to looking through files for missing ID cards that are probably at my brother's...here's hoping I can blame it on their brain rather than my own :P )

Planning on getting the shingles one, assume I need to get tetanus booster though it killed my arm last time I got it.  Is there anything besides tetanus adults need boosters on?

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17 minutes ago, Calm said:

So what should one do if they have completelylost track of vaccinations?

We must have been up to date when we went to Russia in 1995 and I kept up with the kids in Canada, but nothing since 2003 besides flu shots. Is there a table or something that tells us what and when boosters are needed (haven't slept and brain is really misfiring today, so do not want to do research as too close to looking through files for missing ID cards that are probably at my brother's...here's hoping I can blame it on their brain rather than my own :P )

Planning on getting the shingles one, assume I need to get tetanus booster though it killed my arm last time I got it.  Is there anything besides tetanus adults need boosters on?

Definitely get the new Shingrix, just be aware it is fairly common to knock people out for a day or two with flu-like symptoms (not always though).  Higher chance for swelling and soreness too.  I commonly hear that it is not a fun one, but is beats getting shingles, that is for sure!  

You can have your PCP check USIIS for any vaccine records.  Childhood ones probably won't be there but any later ones you received for travel to Russia, etc. should be there.  If you have lost your childhood records I could probably tell you what you likely received based on birth year and if your parents would have given all the recommended vaccines.  

Here is the CDC vaccine schedule for adults:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/adult.html

If you were born before 1957, you don't need the MMR vaccine because you almost certainly have natural immunity.  If you are over 65, pneumococcal is recommended.  Others may be recommended based on personal risk factors such as travel, sexual activity, and immunocompromising conditions. 

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I got the first Shingrix shot. No illness but my entire arm was sore for two days, to the point I couldn’t sleep on that side. So do be sure to get it in the arm you use less. 

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

So what should one do if they have completelylost track of vaccinations?

We must have been up to date when we went to Russia in 1995 and I kept up with the kids in Canada, but nothing since 2003 besides flu shots. Is there a table or something that tells us what and when boosters are needed (haven't slept and brain is really misfiring today, so do not want to do research as too close to looking through files for missing ID cards that are probably at my brother's...here's hoping I can blame it on their brain rather than my own :P )

Planning on getting the shingles one, assume I need to get tetanus booster though it killed my arm last time I got it.  Is there anything besides tetanus adults need boosters on?

I really wish there was a place that gathered all the records. Long story short I have 3 or 4 papers for each of us documenting it all.  When I was in Utah a doctor has said something about all the records being together now, but I misunderstood what he meant.  So I have one from childhood, 1 from Utah and whatever states it combines with and 1 from AZ and the states it combines with along with more.  The kids and my husband are the same.  

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2 hours ago, pogi said:

Definitely get the new Shingrix, just be aware it is fairly common to knock people out for a day or two with flu-like symptoms (not always though).  Higher chance for swelling and soreness too.  I commonly hear that it is not a fun one, but is beats getting shingles, that is for sure!  

Good to know.  We have appointments next week.  Good thing my husband took the day off.

2 hours ago, pogi said:

You can have your PCP check USIIS for any vaccine records.  Childhood ones probably won't be there but any later ones you received for travel to Russia, etc. should be there.  If you have lost your childhood records I could probably tell you what you likely received based on birth year and if your parents would have given all the recommended vaccines.  

Here is the CDC vaccine schedule for adults:

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/schedules/hcp/imz/adult.html

If you were born before 1957, you don't need the MMR vaccine because you almost certainly have natural immunity.  If you are over 65, pneumococcal is recommended.  Others may be recommended based on personal risk factors such as travel, sexual activity, and immunocompromising conditions. 

 

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Record high 18 deaths yesterday.  17 more deaths today. Record high 4,588 positive cases today.

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About 89% of all ICU beds in Utah are occupied, including nearly 94% of ICU beds at Utah's referral hospitals, which are the 16 healthcare facilities that have the capability to provide the best COVID-19 care, according to the health department.

https://www.ksl.com/article/50052917/record-high-4588-more-covid-19-cases-17-deaths-reported-friday-in-utah

All in time for Thanksgiving.  

I think our daily death average has at least doubled in November from the previous average of around 5/day.  And it appears the curve is still exponentially upwards and will be compounded by the ICU issue and holidays. 

Edited by pogi
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One looming problem with vaccine distributions (at the risk of vaguely referring to politics) in the US is that we have a federal government shutdown if there is no budget or continuing resolution passed by December 11th. While none of the departments involved in the vaccine distribution would be shut down completely they would lose a lot of staff and resources until it is resolved IF it happens.

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On 11/18/2020 at 12:05 AM, Raingirl said:

Yep, that sounds like my brother.

His doctor seemed to really be on top of things. Perhaps because of his heart attack earlier this year and being on life support. He’s weathering Covid much better than I thought he would, given that. 

While I wouldn't wish COVID-19 even on my worst enemy, I'm glad to hear that. :)

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On 11/20/2020 at 7:59 AM, bsjkki said:

This is interesting. The MMR vaccine may protect against covid. Helps explain why kids may not be getting this. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/finance.yahoo.com/amphtml/news/peer-reviewed-study-mmr-vaccine-131900104.html

“The researchers found a significant inverse correlation (rs = -0.71, P < 0.001) between mumps titers and COVID-19 severity within the group previously vaccinated with the MMR II vaccine by Merck. Mumps titers of 134 to 300 AU/ml (n=8) were only found in those who were functionally immune or asymptomatic. All with mild COVID-19 symptoms had mumps titers below 134 AU/ml (n=17). All with moderate symptoms had mumps titers below 75 AU/ml (n=11). All who had been hospitalized and required oxygen had mumps titers below 32 AU/ml (n=5). Titers were measured by Quest Diagnostics.”

 

Correlation between countries MMR vaccine for adults was pushed and covid.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.immunizationinfo.com/mmr-vaccine-may-protect-against-covid-19/amp/

Pretty small study, though.  When that's replicated with larger "n-numbers," I'll be more inclined to pay more attention to it.

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WHO analysis rejected remdesivir as COVID-19 treatment. In October, the FDA approved the antiviral drug Veklury (remdesivir) for use in adult and pediatric patients 12 years and older for COVID-19 treatment requiring hospitalization. Veklury is the first treatment for COVID-19 to receive FDA approval.

On Friday, however, a World Health Organization (WHO) panel published an updated report in the British Medical Journal (BMJ) finding that “there is no evidence based on currently available data that it does improve patient-important outcomes.” Based on the analysis, the WHO is now recommending that remdesivir not be used for patients hospitalized with COVID-19, no matter how ill they are, saying there is no evidence that the drug improves survival or reduces the need for ventilation.

These contradictions are frustrating, but this is how medical science finds the stuff that actually works and doesn’t harm. 

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Another vaccine will shortly be applying, Johnson and Johnson. In answer to a question why is it we are getting so many at once (hinting at some sort of conspiracy if I read it right), someone pointed out this is likely because the surges of infections are providing more opportunities for the vaccines to be tested, so they are getting sufficient cases to compare since they can’t intentionally expose people. 

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5 minutes ago, Calm said:

Another vaccine will shortly be applying, Johnson and Johnson. In answer to a question why is it we are getting so many at once (hinting at some sort of conspiracy if I read it right), someone pointed out this is likely because the surges of infections are providing more opportunities for the vaccines to be tested, so they are getting sufficient cases to compare since they can’t intentionally expose people. 

A simpler more common-sense explanation is that this is an enormously expensive global crisis and a vaccine is incredibly helpful and valuable. 

 

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45 minutes ago, Meadowchik said:

A simpler more common-sense explanation is that this is an enormously expensive global crisis and a vaccine is incredibly helpful and valuable. 

 

The conspiracist who is suspicious about the timing might ask in response to that answer ‘why vaccines weren’t available last month?’

Of course the fact everyone is working towards a vaccine had to be in place before a dozen vaccines become available, but randomized tests are dependent on opportunity and if it was just a race to develop new technology for the sake of the technology and they were using an uncommon disease to test effectiveness, it would take a lot longer to tally up the necessary cases in the control group to compare to the vaccinated group and chances are when companies hit the required numbers, such events would be more spread out over time. 
 

A higher density of infections will demonstrate a vaccine is effective sooner than a low density In a randomized test, like an obstacle course where one is meant to hit 100 obstacles without falling apart first will be faster if there are 10obstacles for a car to hit in a mile rather than 1 obstacle per mile. Combine that with more then a dozen vaccines in that final stage of testing (think having a dozen test cars on the track rather than one or two at a time), it makes sense that many are crossing the finish line around the same time.  

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14 minutes ago, bsjkki said:
Both of my ‘students’ are doing much worse in school this year and fighting depression. 

It is unfortunate our culture isn’t more comfortable with repeating grades at least for younger ages. If the pressure was off by reassuring them it was no big deal, to do their best to maintain what they have learned in the past and next year those who were not good online learners or had teachers that were lacking were able to not feel stupid when they had to repeat a grade, I bet a good portion of the depression would disappear.

And it is very unfortunate this happened when student college tuition is so high, so that repeating courses to raise grades is unreasonable for many. 

Edited by Calm
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On 11/20/2020 at 11:54 AM, pogi said:

... If you were born before 1957, you don't need the MMR vaccine because you almost certainly have natural immunity.  If you are over 65, pneumococcal is recommended.  Others may be recommended based on personal risk factors such as travel, sexual activity, and immunocompromising conditions. [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]

Well, whaddaya know?!  There are benefits to being a virgin! :D:rofl::D

Sorry! :huh:

Couldn't resist! ;)

In a really weird mood for some reason this morning! :D

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11 hours ago, Calm said:

It is unfortunate our culture isn’t more comfortable with repeating grades at least for younger ages. If the pressure was off by reassuring them it was no big deal, to do their best to maintain what they have learned in the past and next year those who were not good online learners or had teachers that were lacking were able to not feel stupid when they had to repeat a grade, I bet a good portion of the depression would disappear.

And it is very unfortunate this happened when student college tuition is so high, so that repeating courses to raise grades is unreasonable for many. 

If it wasn't the craziest idea, I think we just all need a re-do of 2020 and repeat the grades. But most likely that won't go over well. And probably has zero chance of happening. There is something about life lived education. And it's not all about the curriculum in schools. Really, when you think about it the older students carry an education in their hands, called "google". 

But maybe I'm sounding like a mad woman. 

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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

If it wasn't the craziest idea, I think we just all need a re-do of 2020 and repeat the grades. But most likely that won't go over well. And probably has zero chance of happening. There is something about life lived education. And it's not all about the curriculum in schools. Really, when you think about it the older students carry an education in their hands, called "google". 

But maybe I'm sounding like a mad woman. 

I have thought that would be a reasonable solution myself, but the cost of repeating rather moving forward probably seems to unreasonable to those doing the school budgets.  And there are parents who wouldn’t tolerate it. 
 

I do wish it was an option without stigma available to those whose parents could handle it without blaming the kid though.  

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