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Covid II: Medical Info and Implications


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58 minutes ago, Calm said:

If you have to eat indoors probably good idea...but touching one’smask a lot isn’t a great thing either, though surface contact is low risk apparently.  I would take my food back to my work space if finding a place by an open window wasn’t possible. 
 

Makes more sense to do takeout imo if you are having a party. You can laugh and get noisy and steal each others’ food without worry or restraint. 

If you are indoor dining, this is ridiculous, non scientific advice. 

Requiring restaurants to improve air filtration and giving them money to do it, makes more sense.

 

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24 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

is ridiculous, non scientific advice. 

It depends I think on how one is eating. If a meal where the focus is on food it is probably pretty useless to put on one’s mask between bites and can risk damaging it. 

Maybe he is thinking about people at bars  more  

If you are there more for talking and maybe sipping a drink or eating a pretzel every twenty minutes or so, I think that makes sense to keep it on in between. But not on and off, on and off. That is more likely to discourage people from using them at all if it turns into that kind of hassle. 
 

We go to a culinary school restaurant sometimes and there can be long gaps between courses. Since we are there for up to two hours at times, using masks for part of that might help (it is shut down and is way too small of space anyway to risk...wish they did take out).

I would like it just to stop people from picking at their teeth with toothpicks with wide open mouths. :)  
 

Improving ventilation would be my vote, much more useful.

Edited by Calm
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I have been thinking about this and if I am frustrated by people who I see are sending out inaccurate messages that give people the sense they don’t need to wear masks, I should also be frustrated by sloppy directions on how to properly wear masks. More is not always better.  Masks might get dirty doing this on and off again behaviour and people are not going to want to wear a dirty mask and may not have a replacement (I thought I was prepared with three masks, but the one I was wearing ripped when I adjusted it while laying on a couch arm at the hospital and the next one had a faulty ear loop, just pulled right off, thankfully the third lasted for the next 24 hours).

If it is not truly helpful, things should be kept as simple and straightforward as possible. 
 

I do think if one is spending all night in bars and clubs, putting your mask on  between sips if you aren’t drinking much is probably wise. Better not to be there at all though, find new ways of getting to know people and save the hooking up for next year. 
 

And places that take more than an hour to eat are probably best to avoid eating in. 
 

——

Restaurants could start advertising higher efficiency filtration and ventilation along with their food quality and ambience.  

Edited by Calm
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52 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have been thinking about this and if I am frustrated by people who I see are sending out inaccurate messages that give people the sense they don’t need to wear masks, I should also be frustrated by sloppy directions on how to properly wear masks. More is not always better.  Masks might get dirty doing this on and off again behaviour and people are not going to want to wear a dirty mask and may not have a replacement (I thought I was prepared with three masks, but the one I was wearing ripped when I adjusted it while laying on a couch arm at the hospital and the next one had a faulty ear loop, just pulled right off, thankfully the third lasted for the next 24 hours).

If it is not truly helpful, things should be kept as simple and straightforward as possible. 
 

I do think if one is spending all night in bars and clubs, putting your mask on  between sips if you aren’t drinking much is probably wise. Better not to be there at all though, find new ways of getting to know people and save the hooking up for next year. 
 

And places that take more than an hour to eat are probably best to avoid eating in. 
 

——

Restaurants could start advertising higher efficiency filtration and ventilation along with their food quality and ambience.  

So not ever having been a drinker - what about just slipping your straw under the mask?  I know most drinks don't have a straw, and there is environmental impact of disposable straws, but if you brought your own reusable one and slipped it under the mask would that solve some of the problems without creating new ones?

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My husband's test was negative.  Unfortunately he is still on day 4.5 of fevers, body aches and headaches.

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

My husband's test was negative.  Unfortunately he is still on day 4.5 of fevers, body aches and headaches.

Didn't he have a burning nose as well?  Seems strange it's flu or something.  Seems early for it too.

If it is, glad we got our flu shots already.

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Good article

The coronavirus is much worse than the flu. Here’s why

"The World Health Organization estimates that 1 billion people a year become infected with the flu, with around 0.5% (3 to 5 million cases) becoming severe. Of those, somewhere between 290,000 to 650,000 annual will die, meaning about 0.065% of those infected by the flu won’t survive the virus

Globally, COVID-19 has claimed more than 1 million lives this year, so far. The global mortality rate of the coronavirus is around 3%"

https://www.deseret.com/indepth/2020/10/6/21504241/coronavirus-deadly-flu-president-trump-twitter-who-johns-hopkins

 

Edited by ksfisher
I forgot the link!
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From Everyday Health:

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Lopinavir-ritonavir is not effective in hospitalized COVID-19 patients. Scientists have been evaluating two drugs used to treat HIV and AIDS as a possible treatment for the coronavirus, but on Monday an investigation published in theLancet indicated that lopinavir used in combination with ritonavir was not effective in patients hospitalized with COVID-19. Findings from the trial indicate that using lopinavir-ritonavir to treat patients hospitalized with COVID-19 does not reduce deaths within 28 days of treatment beginning. “Whilst it is disappointing that there was no significant benefit from lopinavir-ritonavir for patients in hospital, these findings have allowed us to focus our efforts on other promising treatments, and have informed the way in which individual patients are treated,” concluded the study authors.

 

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Not “freaking out”, this is quite, quite rare, but shows this is a weird disease that has some nasty twists:

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A "super-healthy” college student died from COVID-19 complications. Appalachian State University in Boone, North Carolina, announced that a 19-year-old sophomore who had been diagnosed with the coronavirus last month died from neurological complications. After testing positive on September 7, Chad Dorill quarantined for 10 days. The tall and slender Dorill was said to be very fit — a long-distance runner who enjoyed playing basketball. When he recovered from his flu-like symptoms, he returned to school but then began experiencing neurological symptoms rather than respiratory ones. His uncle David Dorill told The New York Times. “When he tried to get out of bed, his legs were not working, and my brother had to carry him to the car and take him to the emergency room.” Although rare, the virus can attack the brain in some cases, as detailed in a study in the Lancet. The chancellor of Appalachian State wrote, “Despite generally being at lower risk for severe illness, college-aged adults can become seriously ill from COVID-19.”

 

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Moderna says its vaccine won’t be ready until March 2021. The CEO of Moderna, Stephane Bancel, said that its vaccine won’t be released to the public until March 2021 at the earliest, according to Business Insider. Bancel added that Moderna will not be ready to submit the vaccine to the FDA for a Biologics License Application (BLA) until at least late January 2021.

 

 

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Pfizer says its vaccine schedule won’t be swayed by politics. The Associated Press obtained a letter from Albert Bourla, CEO of drugmaker Pfizer, telling employees that he was disappointed that the company’s research was politicized during the presidential debate, and reassuring staff that vaccine development will move “at the speed of science.”

 

Edited by Calm
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Question for anyone...

We has to have the water heater fixed today. Took about an hour and a half. They were wearing masks, but I noticed one let his slip below the nose, so I hopefully gently shared how the nose was the biggest shedder of virus and bad for catching infections as well. He didn’t seem offended, but interested. I also shared the Starbucks incident to let him know it protected both parties. 
 

Anyway, pat myself on the back and all, that still leaves me with a question of if there is a way to disinfect air. I have only seen suggestions for ventilation and the door and window are open (thankfully air is fair today so far).  When I used to watch commercials I remember Lysol spray being sprayed into the air with claims that it killed germs, etc.  I am now wondering if that is really effective at all given the size of aerosols that stay airborne. Droplets are going to fall anyway in about three hours. I sprayed surfaces and will again to cover that. But is there anyway to kill aerosols in poorly ventilated spaces like basements?

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18 minutes ago, Calm said:

Question for anyone...

We has to have the water heater fixed today. Took about an hour and a half. They were wearing masks, but I noticed one let his slip below the nose, so I hopefully gently shared how the nose was the biggest shedder of virus and bad for catching infections as well. He didn’t seem offended, but interested. I also shared the Starbucks incident to let him know it protected both parties. 
 

Anyway, pat myself on the back and all, that still leaves me with a question of if there is a way to disinfect air. I have only seen suggestions for ventilation and the door and window are open (thankfully air is fair today so far).  When I used to watch commercials I remember Lysol spray being sprayed into the air with claims that it killed germs, etc.  I am now wondering if that is really effective at all given the size of aerosols that stay airborne. Droplets are going to fall anyway in about three hours. I sprayed surfaces and will again to cover that. But is there anyway to kill aerosols in poorly ventilated spaces like basements?

That link I posted a bit back was something along those lines.  Not so much killing the virus, but um  trapping? it in an air purifier of some kind.  

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1 minute ago, Rain said:

That link I posted a bit back was something along those lines.  Not so much killing the virus, but um  trapping? it in an air purifier of some kind.  

I was thinking of something along the lines of quick and clean, but it probably will come down to buying a second air purifier (the current one stays in my daughter’s room for allergies).

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Just read this, "Manufacturers are stockpiling vaccines now, ahead of completing clinical trials, in the hopes that they will provide enough data to win emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration. But a company must get that authorization before those doses can be distributed and used."

Normally are vaccines stockpiled before they get approval?  I'm not looking for if that is a good or bad thing, just if it is normal.  If it is normal, what do they do with the stockpile if it isn't approved?

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12 minutes ago, Rain said:

Just read this, "Manufacturers are stockpiling vaccines now, ahead of completing clinical trials, in the hopes that they will provide enough data to win emergency use authorization from the Food and Drug Administration. But a company must get that authorization before those doses can be distributed and used."

Normally are vaccines stockpiled before they get approval?  I'm not looking for if that is a good or bad thing, just if it is normal.  If it is normal, what do they do with the stockpile if it isn't approved?

Rarely, and definitely not this early. Most vaccines are not produced until there are people who have had it in their system for over a year and often several years. At that point you have a lot more data than we have and you might start stockpiling while the paperwork is processed and reviewed. This is ridiculously fast and some of these vaccines may never be approved for use. It probably makes sense to do so though. If we find a proven working vaccine the demand will be massive. It should be the population of the Earth but ideally you get it to 80%+ of them. There are all kinds of ethical questions about distribution at that point and the more you have the less hard choices you have to make. We are going to have to make a lot of them anyways.

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A while ago I put together a spreadsheet that includes data from a number of sources, the CDC, Worldometer, Bureau of Statistics, WalletHub and maybe some others, in an effort to see different statistics all in one place.  Out of curiosity, I wanted to see the statistics of the states requiring masks vs. those who don't.  I was surprised by the results and thought I would share.  This is a snapshot and doesn't tell the whole story and I am in no way promoting the non-use of masks.  I wear a mask and think everyone should.  One of the stats is a rating that comes from a study posted on WalletHub.com that ranks states based on how strict their regulations are.  The number I will post is a score based on a scale of 1 to 100, one being, everything is closed and everyone is locked in their homes handcuffed to the bed, and 100 being, no restrictions, business as usual  as though there was no pandemic.  I'll include a link to the website at the bottom.  Here are the stats:

States requiring masks - 34

Cases Per Million - 20,842

Deaths Per Million - 669

Death Rate - 3.21%

14 Day Growth Rate - 27.74%

Average Cases Per Day - 909

Unemployment Rate - 8.55%

Strictness Score - 41.51

States not requiring masks - 17

Cases Per Million - 29,456

Deaths Per Million - 567

Death Rate - 1.92%

14 Day Growth Rate - 17.67%

Average Cases Per Day - 839

Unemployment Rate - 6.05%

Strictness Score - 65.75

Here is the link where I got the "Strictness Score" - https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818/

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28 minutes ago, T-Shirt said:

A while ago I put together a spreadsheet that includes data from a number of sources, the CDC, Worldometer, Bureau of Statistics, WalletHub and maybe some others, in an effort to see different statistics all in one place.  Out of curiosity, I wanted to see the statistics of the states requiring masks vs. those who don't.  I was surprised by the results and thought I would share.  This is a snapshot and doesn't tell the whole story and I am in no way promoting the non-use of masks.  I wear a mask and think everyone should.  One of the stats is a rating that comes from a study posted on WalletHub.com that ranks states based on how strict their regulations are.  The number I will post is a score based on a scale of 1 to 100, one being, everything is closed and everyone is locked in their homes handcuffed to the bed, and 100 being, no restrictions, business as usual  as though there was no pandemic.  I'll include a link to the website at the bottom.  Here are the stats:

States requiring masks - 34

Cases Per Million - 20,842

Deaths Per Million - 669

Death Rate - 3.21%

14 Day Growth Rate - 27.74%

Average Cases Per Day - 909

Unemployment Rate - 8.55%

Strictness Score - 41.51

States not requiring masks - 17

Cases Per Million - 29,456

Deaths Per Million - 567

Death Rate - 1.92%

14 Day Growth Rate - 17.67%

Average Cases Per Day - 839

Unemployment Rate - 6.05%

Strictness Score - 65.75

Here is the link where I got the "Strictness Score" - https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818/

The science isn’t ‘settled.’

We are still learning a ton.

I hope political correctness won’t deter full exploration of all the data. Science should not be politicized.

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2 hours ago, T-Shirt said:

A while ago I put together a spreadsheet that includes data from a number of sources, the CDC, Worldometer, Bureau of Statistics, WalletHub and maybe some others, in an effort to see different statistics all in one place.  Out of curiosity, I wanted to see the statistics of the states requiring masks vs. those who don't.  I was surprised by the results and thought I would share.  This is a snapshot and doesn't tell the whole story and I am in no way promoting the non-use of masks.  I wear a mask and think everyone should.  One of the stats is a rating that comes from a study posted on WalletHub.com that ranks states based on how strict their regulations are.  The number I will post is a score based on a scale of 1 to 100, one being, everything is closed and everyone is locked in their homes handcuffed to the bed, and 100 being, no restrictions, business as usual  as though there was no pandemic.  I'll include a link to the website at the bottom.  Here are the stats:

States requiring masks - 34

Cases Per Million - 20,842

Deaths Per Million - 669

Death Rate - 3.21%

14 Day Growth Rate - 27.74%

Average Cases Per Day - 909

Unemployment Rate - 8.55%

Strictness Score - 41.51

States not requiring masks - 17

Cases Per Million - 29,456

Deaths Per Million - 567

Death Rate - 1.92%

14 Day Growth Rate - 17.67%

Average Cases Per Day - 839

Unemployment Rate - 6.05%

Strictness Score - 65.75

Here is the link where I got the "Strictness Score" - https://wallethub.com/edu/states-coronavirus-restrictions/73818/

Another stat should be urban vs suburb vs rural areas as iirc there are going to higher rates naturally in close quarters while urban areas are also more likely to be liberal and therefore have masks mandates.  So there probably should be some adjustments for population. density. 
 

Also thinking interstate and international travel, areas that have a lot of travelers seem like they get outbreaks faster, etc. 

Number of people in poverty or homeless, minorities 

Health care, obesity levels 

Maybe number of college students in the area....

Number of bars (if opened), number of churches and sizes....

Trying to think of those indicators that raise likelihood of getting Covid, etc 

Edited by Calm
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I have added a few more categories, Population Density, Median Age, Poverty, College Students as percentage of population, Health & Minorities.  Each state was ranked 1 through 51 in each category, one being lowest and 51 being highest, except health, which is the opposite. (Sorry to be confusing)  I took the average of the states rankings  for those requiring masks and those not requiring them.

States requiring masks - 34

Cases Per Million - 20,842

Deaths Per Million - 669

Death Rate - 3.21%

14 Day Growth Rate - 27.74%

Average Cases Per Day - 909

Unemployment Rate - 8.55%

Strictness Score - 41.51

Population Density - 30 Higher

Median Age - 30 Older

Poverty - 26 Same

College Students - 25 Marginally Fewer

Health - 24 Marginally Healthier

Minorities - 27 - Slightly more minorities

States not requiring masks - 17

Cases Per Million - 29,456

Deaths Per Million - 567

Death Rate - 1.92%

14 Day Growth Rate - 17.67%

Average Cases Per Day - 839

Unemployment Rate - 6.05%

Strictness Score - 65.75

Population Density - 17 Lower

Median Age - 19 Lower

Poverty - 26 Same

College Students - 28 Marginally more

Health - 28 Marginally less healthy

Minorities - 22 Slightly fewer minorities

So it appears that the only categories that are significantly different and could have some affect on the numbers are population density and age.

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20 hours ago, Calm said:

Another stat should be urban vs suburb vs rural areas as iirc there are going to higher rates naturally in close quarters while urban areas are also more likely to be liberal and therefore have masks mandates.  So there probably should be some adjustments for population. density. 
 

Also thinking interstate and international travel, areas that have a lot of travelers seem like they get outbreaks faster, etc. 

Number of people in poverty or homeless, minorities 

Health care, obesity levels 

Maybe number of college students in the area....

Number of bars (if opened), number of churches and sizes....

Trying to think of those indicators that raise likelihood of getting Covid, etc 

Timing of onset of covid in the state.

Timing of restrictions starting.

Compliance to the restrictions.

Edited by Rain
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These are all valid things to consider.  This is the problem with statistics, there is always something missing and they never tell the whole story.  This is true whether the stats are from a biased source or if they are trying to be neutral.  That being said, there is value to these stats, showing there may be more than one way to view things.

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https://nypost.com/2020/10/11/who-warns-against-covid-19-lockdowns-due-to-economic-damage/?utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow&utm_campaign=SocialFlow

“We in the World Health Organization do not advocate lockdowns as the primary means of control of this virus,” Nabarro said.

“The only time we believe a lockdown is justified is to buy you time to reorganize, regroup, rebalance your resources, protect your health workers who are exhausted, but by and large, we’d rather not do it.”

Nabarro said that there’s significant harm caused by tight restrictions, particularly on the global economy.

“Lockdowns just have one consequence that you must never ever belittle, and that is making poor people an awful lot poorer,” he said.

He added that lockdowns have severely impacted countries that rely on tourism.

“Just look at what’s happened to the tourism industry in the Caribbean, for example, or in the Pacific because people aren’t taking their holidays,” Nabarro told the outlet.

“Look what’s happened to smallholder farmers all over the world. Look what’s happening to poverty levels. It seems that we may well have a doubling of world poverty by next year. We may well have at least a doubling of child malnutrition.”

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I'm so tired of people saying we need herd immunity and saying masks don't work. I believe our governor, Gary Herbert, has done an amazing job. But it's the residents of Utah that are behaving like brats. Children are more adult than adults. I'm embarrassed of the jerks in Utah. I'm dealing with some on the Fox13 news feed on FB. 

Watching, or listening, to our governor's plan right now. They are explaining a plan that will go by county and watch the numbers per week. And if it's high they will adjust the color to red etc. But more is explained in this live broadcast. Way to go leadership. Now if the church leaders could be more stern, that would be nice.

https://www.facebook.com/watch/live/?v=632122044134119&ref=notif&notif_id=1602593558186025&notif_t=live_video

ETA: Here are the new rules in place. I like them. I just hope I'll be a grown up and try to follow them.

https://coronavirus.utah.gov/utah-health-guidance-levels/

 

Edited by Tacenda
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On 10/6/2020 at 3:43 PM, ksfisher said:

Good article

The coronavirus is much worse than the flu. Here’s why

"The World Health Organization estimates that 1 billion people a year become infected with the flu, with around 0.5% (3 to 5 million cases) becoming severe. Of those, somewhere between 290,000 to 650,000 annual will die, meaning about 0.065% of those infected by the flu won’t survive the virus

Globally, COVID-19 has claimed more than 1 million lives this year, so far. The global mortality rate of the coronavirus is around 3%"

https://www.deseret.com/indepth/2020/10/6/21504241/coronavirus-deadly-flu-president-trump-twitter-who-johns-hopkins

 

I just got off the phone with a 39 year old female with no comorbidities.  She tested positive for Covid and was admitted to the hospital the same day.  She was not admitted for low 02 sats however.  She had severe abdominal pain and nausea/vomiting and complete fatigue/exhaustion.   It turns out Covid infected her liver and kidneys leading to acute liver and kidney failure.  I read her hospital notes - at one point they were considering an emergency liver transplant in case her condition kept declining.  Luckily she eventually turned the corner and will be discharged tomorrow.    

I have never seen that in young healthy individuals with the flu. 

Edited by pogi
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