Jump to content
Seriously No Politics ×

Covid II: Medical Info and Implications


Recommended Posts

58 minutes ago, smac97 said:

Some medical experts privately agreed with my prediction that there may be very little Covid-19 by April but suggested that I not to talk publicly about herd immunity because people might become complacent and fail to take precautions or might decline the vaccine.

Does he take into account the variants?  Breakdown in process due to winter weather?  Cold shocked sea turtles?  Explosion of Mt Etna?  
 

He can also use those to warn people not to be complacent and get the vaccine as there might be another wave or surge or whatever and these vaccines provide some protection for those variants apparently. 
 

Husband gets his shot today.
 

****Read that Etna let loose twice this week and was thinking “great, the disasters keep coming, variants, record winter storms, volcanoes...”, but Etna goes off at least once a year, so that gets classified in mundane rather than apocalyptic. 

Edited by Calm
Link to comment
1 hour ago, smac97 said:

Herd immunity by April?  See this Op-Ed in the Wall Street Journal (by Dr. Marty Markary, a professor at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine) :

His lips to God's ears.

Hmm.

His closing paragraph is somewhat troubling:

Thanks,

-Smac

I hope he is right.  The drop itself (I know he talked about other things as well) doesn't say anything to me because of the timing with Thanksgiving and Christmas.  It would be nice to see if that continues after other big group gathering days/seasons.

 

Edited by Rain
Link to comment
On 2/6/2021 at 3:22 AM, mfbukowski said:

If vaccinated people have symptoms how is it true that "they don't have it to catch"?

Plus see above

 

Maybe this has been answered in the several pages downstream of this question that I haven't yet seen, but here's what is going on: 

Vaccination doesn't give you the disease vaccinated against, it merely provides a template for your immune system to learn to recognize the threat, so it can act appropriately if the virus recurs. 

If the vaccine in question consists of "killed virus" particles, there are no live virus particles in you. If it consists of "attenuated virus" particles, there might be viruses, but they can't function properly to reproduce. Neither can invade your cells and reproduce. But your immune system sees the dead and disabled virus particles as invaders nevertheless, and manufactures antibodies against them, as well as activating factors that fire up general reactions (such as fever) to fight infection. Note that a fever is not directly caused by infection. Fever is a defense mechanism of your own body.

More recently there are mRNA vaccines (I got one of those, the Pfizer). These take a short-lived synthetically created fragment of the RNA sequence of a virus into the vaccinated individual. The virus itself is not at all present in any form, but the individual's immune system reacts as if it were, and builds antibodies and recognitions against the virus.

I hope this helps.

ETA: I should have at least checked the next post, because @Peacefully answered with info on the mRNA vaccinations.

Edited by Stargazer
Link to comment
On 2/6/2021 at 4:30 AM, mfbukowski said:

So the body is reacting to the spike only, but not to the larger protein piece that actually causes the Mrna to reproduce and cause the disease? Right?

 So how do they get scissors tiny enough to just cut off the spikes? ;)

 Seriously that kind of makes sense even to me. Thanks.

 

You need to watch this video, about the "Scissors":

 

Link to comment
On 2/12/2021 at 4:10 AM, 3DOP said:

#1) 100 what? Meters? What's that? I thought you were American

I spent 8 years in the US Army (1975-1983) in combat arms (infantry and field artillery) and then signal corps, and much of our measurement was metric. Our personal weapons were calibrated in millimeters, as well as our crew served weapons. 5.56mm M16 rifle, 40mm grenade launcher, 7.62mm M60 machine gun, 60mm and 81mm mortars, and 105mm cannon. To help our visualization of the meter, that's how long the standard M16 rifle was.  When we in the infantry called for fire from the artillery, all distance callouts were in kilometers, and adjustment were in meters. "Kilometers" were so commonly used that we were in the habit of using the word "clicks" instead -- "It's about three clicks down the road..."  

We still used US customary measurements for many things, though. Weight and capacity, especially: pounds, ounces, gallons, quarts, etc. Some legacy weapons were still calibrated in inches, such as the .45 ACP caliber pistol (Mr. Brownings work) and older cannons like the 8 inch Howitzer (though later they started referring to those as 203mm).

A lot of former US military understand and use metric. Not all Americans think metric is a disease. :D 

Link to comment
56 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Maybe this has been answered in the several pages downstream of this question that I haven't yet seen, but here's what is going on: 

Vaccination doesn't give you the disease vaccinated against, it merely provides a template for your immune system to learn to recognize the threat, so it can act appropriately if the virus recurs. 

If the vaccine in question consists of "killed virus" particles, there are no live virus particles in you. If it consists of "attenuated virus" particles, there might be viruses, but they can't function properly to reproduce. Neither can invade your cells and reproduce. But your immune system sees the dead and disabled virus particles as invaders nevertheless, and manufactures antibodies against them, as well as activating factors that fire up general reactions (such as fever) to fight infection. Note that a fever is not directly caused by infection. Fever is a defense mechanism of your own body.

More recently there are mRNA vaccines (I got one of those, the Pfizer). These take a short-lived synthetically created fragment of the RNA sequence of a virus into the vaccinated individual. The virus itself is not at all present in any form, but the individual's immune system reacts as if it were, and builds antibodies and recognitions against the virus.

I hope this helps.

ETA: I should have at least checked the next post, because @Peacefully answered with info on the mRNA vaccinations.

It surprised me when I found a vaccinated person could still spread covid.  I never knew how vaccines worked till I looked into that. 

Now I should look to see if they know why some people don't build antibodies and if that means they are always not immune. (Every time I have had a booster for measles after pregnancy they find I'm not immune still).

 

Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Rain said:

It surprised me when I found a vaccinated person could still spread covid.  I never knew how vaccines worked till I looked into that. 

Now I should look to see if they know why some people don't build antibodies and if that means they are always not immune. (Every time I have had a booster for measles after pregnancy they find I'm not immune still).

 

Well, if the vaccination didn't work properly, they could still get the targeted disease of course. Or if the disease arrived before the vaccination could become effective. Then of course they could still spread it.

But mfbukowski's worry was that the vaccination itself would be contagious for the disease. Which it isn't.

Link to comment
10 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

Well, if the vaccination didn't work properly, they could still get the targeted disease of course. Or if the disease arrived before the vaccination could become effective. Then of course they could still spread it.

But mfbukowski's worry was that the vaccination itself would be contagious for the disease. Which it isn't.

I know it was different.  Just related.  

What I was wondering is if a person doesn't have antibodies does that always mean it didn't work?  My OBs nurse, also, had at the time been vaccinated for measles 8 times and was still showing as not immune.  So this immune, not immune thing has really interested me.

Link to comment

I thought I would link to some articles appearing on the NIH website:

Link to comment
1 hour ago, Stargazer said:

You need to watch this video, about the "Scissors":

 

Holy ....c..c.. cow!

Link to comment
18 minutes ago, Rain said:

I know it was different.  Just related.  

What I was wondering is if a person doesn't have antibodies does that always mean it didn't work?  My OBs nurse, also, had at the time been vaccinated for measles 8 times and was still showing as not immune.  So this immune, not immune thing has really interested me.

It is interesting, yes. I think that just as we are all different in various ways, not everyone's immune system will react the same way, either. 

Link to comment
On 2/19/2021 at 8:40 AM, Stargazer said:

...but I think it was a fake Covid shot, because I didn't even get a sore spot on my arm. My second shot is scheduled for April. They say that the second shot gets more of a reaction than the first. I shall try to remember to report on it here.

I'm nearly 70 and have been in good health all my life. I credit my parents for my immune system. 

It is interesting because this is a very common response I get from 70+ individuals coming back for their second shot.  Many of them half-jokingly wonder if they got a first shot at all because they had zero reaction at all and didn't even feel the needle go in.   Pfizer seems to be more mild in terms of side effects than Moderna from my experience vaccinating the public.  For whatever reason, older individuals tend to have fewer side-effects than younger individuals like myself. 

Link to comment
1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

Another interesting side-effect to be aware of (much less concerning than the one you noted):

My wife receiver her first dose of Moderna.  2 days later she had a tender lump in her breast by her armpit and felt a little feverish.  She is still breastfeeding and thought it was mastitis because she had mastitis previously and it presented very similarly.  She went to her provider just as a precaution and her doctor didn't think it was mastitis and was very concerned and ordered a mammogram.  My wife couldn't sleep for 2 nights with anxiety. 

We were both relieved to read this article which calmed our worries: 

https://www.deseret.com/utah/2021/2/9/22274688/covid-19-vaccines-may-give-false-positives-in-breast-cancer-screenings

All women should be aware that 11% have swollen lymph nodes in the armpit by the breast area with the first dose, and around 16% get it with the second dose.  This has been causing false positives for breast cancer after mammograms.  After reading the article my wife called her provider and rescheduled her mammogram for a month after her second dose.  Luckily the lump and tenderness went away after a couple of days, so we feel pretty confident it was just a side-effect of the vaccine, which it looks like is fairly common. 

Edited by pogi
Link to comment
29 minutes ago, pogi said:

It is interesting because this is a very common response I get from 70+ individuals coming back for their second shot.  Many of them half-jokingly wonder if they got a first shot at all because they had zero reaction at all and didn't even feel the needle go in.   Pfizer seems to be more mild in terms of side effects than Moderna from my experience vaccinating the public.  For whatever reason, older individuals tend to have fewer side-effects than younger individuals like myself. 

My arm was a little sore after the first. It was less sore in a smaller area after the second Pfizer. My only reaction was tiredness. I spent most of the afternoon napping. (I rarely have even a short afternoon nap.) 

Link to comment
10 hours ago, pogi said:

It is interesting because this is a very common response I get from 70+ individuals coming back for their second shot.  Many of them half-jokingly wonder if they got a first shot at all because they had zero reaction at all and didn't even feel the needle go in.   Pfizer seems to be more mild in terms of side effects than Moderna from my experience vaccinating the public.  For whatever reason, older individuals tend to have fewer side-effects than younger individuals like myself. 

Now THAT is very strange. I would have thought the opposite to be the case, but the universe is full of anomalies or counterintuitivities. <<-- I just made that word up. 

ETA: Disappointed to discover that the word already existed. 😒

Edited by Stargazer
followup
Link to comment
12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Nice, we had one building set up to help but I haven’t heard whether or how much it was used. We have several buildings with water damage. At least one has pretty severe damage.

Our building was flooded, but I don’t know the extent of the damage. Our sacrament meeting will be held in the Stake Center. 

Edited by Peacefully
Link to comment
On 2/19/2021 at 10:57 AM, Stargazer said:

I spent 8 years in the US Army (1975-1983) in combat arms (infantry and field artillery) and then signal corps, and much of our measurement was metric. Our personal weapons were calibrated in millimeters, as well as our crew served weapons. 5.56mm M16 rifle, 40mm grenade launcher, 7.62mm M60 machine gun, 60mm and 81mm mortars, and 105mm cannon. To help our visualization of the meter, that's how long the standard M16 rifle was.  When we in the infantry called for fire from the artillery, all distance callouts were in kilometers, and adjustment were in meters. "Kilometers" were so commonly used that we were in the habit of using the word "clicks" instead -- "It's about three clicks down the road..."  

We still used US customary measurements for many things, though. Weight and capacity, especially: pounds, ounces, gallons, quarts, etc. Some legacy weapons were still calibrated in inches, such as the .45 ACP caliber pistol (Mr. Brownings work) and older cannons like the 8 inch Howitzer (though later they started referring to those as 203mm).

A lot of former US military understand and use metric. Not all Americans think metric is a disease. :D 

Wow. I had heard of "click" and did not know what it meant. Thanks.

A son-in-law and daughter in law are metric as well as Centigrade. I try to love them anyway...🤪...

Link to comment
6 hours ago, Stargazer said:

Now THAT is very strange. I would have thought the opposite to be the case, but the universe is full of anomalies or counterintuitivities. <<-- I just made that word up. 

ETA: Disappointed to discover that the word already existed. 😒

If you get more/stronger symptoms depending on how many virus enter your body then maybe this happens because older people are more likely distance and fewer in their body?  I have no idea if the science of the vaccines work that way or not, but if it does then the social distancing before of the person may explain that.  It would be interesting to see if there is a difference in young and old care workers in covid units in the hospital.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...