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Sacrament at Home Church


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On 8/11/2020 at 1:34 PM, Bernard Gui said:

I’m trying to imagine your scenario.

There is a stranger sitting on the stand next to the bishop in sacrament meeting. Members of the ward have no idea who he is because they have never read a church magazine or seen photos of the General Authorities. The bishop neglects to welcome the guest or identify him to the congregation, so they have no clue who that fellow is sitting next to him. The deacon passes the sacrament to the bishop first, so the General Authority secretly seethes because of this gross insult to his massive ego. This happens so frequently around the world that the Brethren meet in the upper rooms of the Temple to put a stop to this insubordination. They establish a procedure that will teach the members a lesson in deference to their majesty, spread it across the Church over 3 decades, and eventually codify it in the Handbook. Sounds reasonable to me.

I have only heard a clarification on this issued once and it was about members of the Stake High Council not presiding so they should not get it first.

I have seen an apostle accidentally semi-snubbed because a member did not recognize him. He thought it was funny.

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On 8/14/2020 at 10:35 AM, HappyJackWagon said:

No offense, Ahab, but that is terrible.

Have you ever committed the same sin more than one time, EVEN after you've partaken of the sacrament?

We all sin repeatedly which is why the sacrament is intended to be received regularly. Shaming a person because they sin is incredibly counter productive and more than a little bit hypocritical.

A while back Ahab assured me he had not sinned in years.

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On 8/13/2020 at 11:11 AM, bluebell said:

And when those problems ceased to be problems, they removed them from the handbook.  The handbook is a good gauge of where members or leaders need correction or more guidance.  Things that aren't causing concern or being done wrong, aren't typically brought up.  

One thing I loved about the old missionary handbook is that most lines had a story behind them. I saw a copy of one a few years after my mission and realized I might have contributed to one rule being there.

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8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

One thing I loved about the old missionary handbook is that most lines had a story behind them. I saw a copy of one a few years after my mission and realized I might have contributed to one rule being there.

In my mission we used to joke about how the missionary handbook should have to have a picture of the missionary/ies that caused the rule.  Our mission had one rule that was the fault of one of my zones--no zone lunches.  

We liked each other a lot and became a little notorious for all the activities that we would try to do as a zone.  We would try to do a lunch before transfers and our zone included all of the office missionaries and APs so we were never that far off of the radar.  The jig was finally up when my mission president noticed that the office couple (Good old Elder and Sister Whitney) kept getting back late from lunch (because it takes a long time to have lunch at Applebees when there are 18 of you!). 

And suddenly the 'no zone lunches' rule appeared.   :D 

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1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

But I was a bit surprised that there was no church yesterday for anyone since it was a 5th Sunday. Did everyone take the 5th sunday off or was it just my area? Seems a little strange though I imagine it was done to keep the same groups meeting on the same weeks each month. But cancelling church because it's a 5th Sunday seems unusual to me as it would suggest church attendance isn't nearly as important as it used to be.

Our ward is up to meeting in two groups now (<= 99 / week), and we met yesterday as usual.

This should allow us to have the 'other' group available for Fast Sunday next week - thus alleviating us trying to anything weird with the scheduling any time soon (i.e., we're trying to avoid having the same group for Fast Sunday each month).

 

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27 minutes ago, bluebell said:

In my mission we used to joke about how the missionary handbook should have to have a picture of the missionary/ies that caused the rule.  Our mission had one rule that was the fault of one of my zones--no zone lunches.  

We liked each other a lot and became a little notorious for all the activities that we would try to do as a zone.  We would try to do a lunch before transfers and our zone included all of the office missionaries and APs so we were never that far off of the radar.  The jig was finally up when my mission president noticed that the office couple (Good old Elder and Sister Whitney) kept getting back late from lunch (because it takes a long time to have lunch at Applebees when there are 18 of you!). 

And suddenly the 'no zone lunches' rule appeared.   :D 

I remember the Zone Conference after the multi-zone activity.

Zone leaders all got up and confessed: "I too was involved in the multi-zone activity and....."

Ah, memories.

And no, of course I was not at the multi-zone activity. Why are you looking at me like that?

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My ward just moved into phase 2 and we can have up to 100 people in the building and are going back to church every Sunday (we were doing twice a month).

It is a difficult tightrope. On one hand leadership wants to encourage people to come back but on the other we do not want to imply any lack of faithfulness or anything of the sort on those who do not attend due to increased chance of complications, age, or people they associate with that their attendance could put at increased risk.

I admit I am a little confused why we are moving to phase 2 when our Covid cases and deaths are pretty steady near their highest points. I am not sure if I am going to go back. I have attended twice before now. Once to see an investigator I know and once because I was asked to speak.

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21 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I remember the Zone Conference after the multi-zone activity.

Zone leaders all got up and confessed: "I too was involved in the multi-zone activity and....."

Ah, memories.

And no, of course I was not at the multi-zone activity. Why are you looking at me like that?

:lol:

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6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I have only heard a clarification on this issued once and it was about members of the Stake High Council not presiding so they should not get it first.

I have seen an apostle accidentally semi-snubbed because a member did not recognize him. He thought it was funny.

Having been a high councilman several times, I can understand why the confusion might happen. I always exuded a sense of inner power and authority while maintaining an outward appearance of piety and humility  

One rule I have always followed is “never semi-or fully-snub an Apostle.”

Edited by Bernard Gui
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2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Having been a high councilman several times, I can understand why the confusion might happen. I always exuded a sense of power and authority. [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969.]  

One rule I have always followed is “never semi-or fully-snub an Apostle.”

Of course you did, General Zod! :o :mega_shok: :blink:

;) :D 

Sorry.  :unknw:  Couldn't resist! :huh: 

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6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

One thing I loved about the old missionary handbook is that most lines had a story behind them. I saw a copy of one a few years after my mission and realized I might have contributed to one rule being there.

After I broke my collarbone in an intense Monday night laser tag battle with the bishop and his family in the Church halls and multi-purpose room, the stake presidency sent a letter to all the wards banning the use of the building for family home evenings. Maybe it made the General Handbook? Who knows?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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11 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

After I broke my collarbone in an intense Monday night laser tag battle with the bishop and his family in the Church halls and multi-purpose room, the stake presidency sent a letter to all the wards banning the use of the building for family home evenings. Maybe it made the General Handbook? Who knows?

Our stake did something similar after a kid ended up in the hospital after a sledding activity where he hit a tree.  Getting seriously hurt is almost a surefire way to stop that activity from ever happening again.

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We had church.  We are the 1st and third Sundays (half the ward each Sunday).  Another ward is doing it the 2nd and 4th.  I don't know what the third ward is doing.

Those of us at home see it with zoom.  

One friend who attended says there are about 30 people attending.  

Edited by Rain
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18 hours ago, Amulek said:

Our ward is up to meeting in two groups now (<= 99 / week), and we met yesterday as usual.

This should allow us to have the 'other' group available for Fast Sunday next week - thus alleviating us trying to anything weird with the scheduling any time soon (i.e., we're trying to avoid having the same group for Fast Sunday each month).

 

Are you guys doing fast and testimony every 1st Sunday?

Based on the 1-2 times people attend each month that would be a LOT of F&T meeting. I hope the poor people attending 1st sundays in my ward don't get their only Sacrament meeting every month as a F&T meeting. Or maybe we'll rotate F&T meetings to different weeks so everyone gets one every once in a while. With only a quarter of the ward attending at any given time, that could make for a rather quiet/slow meeting unless EVERYONE participated :) 

My guess is my bishopric will reserve F&T meetings for the weeks they forget to set up speakers. SURPRISE, it's F&T meeting time.

Edited by HappyJackWagon
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14 minutes ago, Rain said:

We had church.  We are the 1st and third Sundays.  Another ward is doing it the 2nd and 4th.  I don't know what the third ward is doing.

Those of us at home see it with zoom.  

One friend who attended says there are about 30 people attending.  

I thought zoom/online meetings were verboten. 

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1 minute ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I thought zoom/online meetings were verboten. 

They were.  Then the week we got the go ahead to meet in person they allowed us to do zoom.

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13 minutes ago, Rain said:

They were.  Then the week we got the go ahead to meet in person they allowed us to do zoom.

We Zoom Sunday School and youth meetings twice a month, RS once a month,  and EQ now and then. Our missionaries do both Zoom and in-home meetings. The Kentucky Guis are having twice-a-month in person sacrament meetings, but the Washington, Arkansas, and Utah Guis are still meeting at home. Sister Gui is preparing to start her on-line-only kindergarten class next week on Team. That should be interesting. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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I reckon there won’t be any mission reunions at Conference this year.

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34 minutes ago, Rain said:

They were.  Then the week we got the go ahead to meet in person they allowed us to do zoom.

It gets curiouser and curiouser ;)

I wonder what the logic is behind banning zoom meetings when no one is able to meet in person and then allowing them to do zoom once people can meet in person. So weird.

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28 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It gets curiouser and curiouser ;)

I wonder what the logic is behind banning zoom meetings when no one is able to meet in person and then allowing them to do zoom once people can meet in person. So weird.

If we start having our meetings at the chapel, depending on the restrictions, Sister Gui and I might not be comfortable attending in person just yet. We would appreciate being able to attend on-line. I assume we would continue to do our own sacrament in the home like we are doing now.  

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22 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

But I was a bit surprised that there was no church yesterday for anyone since it was a 5th Sunday. Did everyone take the 5th sunday off or was it just my area? Seems a little strange though I imagine it was done to keep the same groups meeting on the same weeks each month. But cancelling church because it's a 5th Sunday seems unusual to me as it would suggest church attendance isn't nearly as important as it used to be.

 

No, it don't think church was cancelled for 5th sunday, my ward met on the 30th, and it was my first time back since March. I think it must have been a decision local to your own area.

Church was nice, it was nice to be back and see ward members, my husband and I were socializing, probably more than we were supposed to, because as we walked in we kept seeing people who stopped us to talk,  before sitting down--but we had our masks on and did not touch or hug anyone.  During the songs, we were to listen to the hymns, but I found that I couldn't help myself and started humming and then my husband joined in.  It was nice to hum along, which I see no danger in doing, as we had our mouths closed and masks on.

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1 hour ago, alter idem said:

No, it don't think church was cancelled for 5th sunday, my ward met on the 30th, and it was my first time back since March. I think it must have been a decision local to your own area.

Church was nice, it was nice to be back and see ward members, my husband and I were socializing, probably more than we were supposed to, because as we walked in we kept seeing people who stopped us to talk,  before sitting down--but we had our masks on and did not touch or hug anyone.  During the songs, we were to listen to the hymns, but I found that I couldn't help myself and started humming and then my husband joined in.  It was nice to hum along, which I see no danger in doing, as we had our mouths closed and masks on.

Such a strange time we live in :) 

Music is such an important part of worship for me. Not being able to sing or even really hear some good musical numbers reduces the value of attending for me personally. Is your area requiring masks or were you just being responsible on your own? Masks are "encouraged" in my area but virtually no one wears one. Last time I was there I heard someone hacking somewhere in the background. I peaked when it wouldn't be too obvious. The guy wasn't wearing a mask. I really don't think I'll be going back for a while.

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4 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Are you guys doing fast and testimony every 1st Sunday?

Yes. Ever since we started attending church in a pre-Phase 1 capacity (i.e., <= 50 members per week), we have been having Fast and Testimony meeting on the first Sunday of every month. We were originally divided into three groups, so we never ran into a scheduling conflict where the same group would have had to have attended on a first Sunday more than one month in a row. 

Now that we're in full Phase 1 (<= 99 members per week), we're divided into only two groups, so we might need to move things around at the end of the month so the same group doesn't get stuck on the Fast Sunday loop.

 

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Based on the 1-2 times people attend each month that would be a LOT of F&T meeting. I hope the poor people attending 1st sundays in my ward don't get their only Sacrament meeting every month as a F&T meeting. Or maybe we'll rotate F&T meetings to different weeks so everyone gets one every once in a while. With only a quarter of the ward attending at any given time, that could make for a rather quiet/slow meeting unless EVERYONE participated :) 

One of the things we have done since we started meeting during this phased opening approach is to not worry so much about the time.

In fact, when we first started back, all we did was essentially the sacrament itself and then a brief spiritual thought by one of the bishopric members. During that phase we were usually done with the meeting, had everything disinfected, and were ready to close down for the next ward in about 30 minutes total. 

After a couple weeks of that we started adding a speaker or two, but we made it clear that they didn't have to kill themselves trying to take up all the time. With the extra speakers (usually just one or two, sometimes two plus a youth speaker), we're now usually running closer to 40-ish minutes for the entire meeting, and we still have things cleaned up / ready to go within the hour.

It's been a bit different, but still nice. 

 

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My guess is my bishopric will reserve F&T meetings for the weeks they forget to set up speakers. SURPRISE, it's F&T meeting time.

I like it! 

 

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1 hour ago, HappyJackWagon said:

Such a strange time we live in :) 

Music is such an important part of worship for me. Not being able to sing or even really hear some good musical numbers reduces the value of attending for me personally. Is your area requiring masks or were you just being responsible on your own? Masks are "encouraged" in my area but virtually no one wears one. Last time I was there I heard someone hacking somewhere in the background. I peaked when it wouldn't be too obvious. The guy wasn't wearing a mask. I really don't think I'll be going back for a while.

Our area requires masks, and so it didn't seem at all surprising that everyone who attended wore masks, even little Nursery age children were wearing them.  It was all so sterile, and cautious, I don't worry at all that anyone could be exposed at my ward and no one was coughing either.  If there was any possible chance I might be sick, with anything-- I'd stay home, but I guess not everyone thinks that way.  Too bad you can't attend my ward.😀

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6 hours ago, HappyJackWagon said:

It gets curiouser and curiouser ;)

I wonder what the logic is behind banning zoom meetings when no one is able to meet in person and then allowing them to do zoom once people can meet in person. So weird.

I'm pretty sure our bishop wonders as well by the tone of his email announcing it.

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