Jump to content

Advice and Opinions on Spiritual Healers


Recommended Posts

Hi all,

As usual, when I am faced with a dilemma that involves my faith - I turn to the collective help and wisdom of this group. ¬†ūüôā. This is such a time again, but I am not¬†posting in the¬†general board¬†because I want to specifically get the opinion of those who identify as¬†believing members for this particular issue.

When I picked up my 16 YO daughter from her birth mother's house today (I am the custodial parent), she excitedly told me that she went to see her mother's 'therapist' over the weekend. I asked her how she liked it, and she said she loved it.  I asked for more detail, and she was quick to point out that this therapist was a member of the church - then proceeded to tell me that she channeled or communicated with ancestors and spirits in her therapy - and that specifically, she addressed "the unborn spirit of your (my daughters) future second child."  I immediately was uncomfortable, and said told my daughter that I did not know how I felt about that.  She immediately said in a slightly annoyed tone, "I figured you would feel that way, and so I wasn't going to tell you."  The spirit immediately prompted me to back off and let her talk, so I told her that I was doing my best not to rush to judgment and I wanted to hear more and know about what she liked about it - so she kept sharing.  I ended with telling her that while I was reserving judgement, I was glad the experience made her feel like she was able to release some emotional trauma and feel lighter.

Of course, inside, I am still very concerned and frustrated - My research since (I haven't been able¬†to sleep, as I type this at 6 am) has shown that this therapist is not licensed at all, but is a "Spiritual Healer". ¬† She talked to my daughter about God, ancestors, ancestral trauma (literally saying that some of my daughters issues come from as far as 14 generations ago), the pre-existance (and some trauma coming from there) etc. ¬†I am trying to keep an open mind, but as an active member, this is hard for me to swallow. ¬†In talking to a FB friend who knows this therapist, apparently she (the therapist) is a return missionary and¬†seems to be LDS, at least from what I can ascertain. ¬†So here is my litany of questions for which I seek your valued opinions:¬†ūüôā

1.  What do you think of people who use this kind of approach in treatment?  How can/does someone square this approach with gospel teaching?  Do any of you believe in or practice such things, and are ok with it? I have always been taught communicating with spirits, other than on a very sacred level, was not kosher.  

2. How would you advise I proceed with my daughter - should I not express my discomfort at all and let her continue to see this person?  

3.  Should I mention this to her mother as a concern - even though she weaponizes the church agains me with my kids and is always trying to convince them that I am just trying to control them by having them stay in the church (my ex wife left the church when she left me)? I don't want to give her something else to post to to say "see your dad doesn't care about you feeling good, just about being 'right' and staying LDS."  Also, she never asked me or told me about taking our daughter to such a person - even if it was a legitimate licensed therapist, which she isn't, I feel I should have been at least informed as the custodial parent.

4.  Should I contact the therapist?  If so, what should I say?

5.  Should I be upset and concerned, or am I overreacting?

Thats enough questions for now! ūüôā. I know the firs thing to do (which I have done) is to pry for guidance from Heavenly¬†Father. ¬†Part of the replies to my prayers has lead me hereon again for advice. ¬†I appreciate all of you and look forward to your thoughts!

 

MP

 

 

 

Link to post
2 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Hi all,

As usual, when I am faced with a dilemma that involves my faith - I turn to the collective help and wisdom of this group. ¬†ūüôā. This is such a time again, but I am not¬†posting in the¬†general board¬†because I want to specifically get the opinion of those who identify as¬†believing members for this particular issue.

When I picked up my 16 YO daughter from her birth mother's house today (I am the custodial parent), she excitedly told me that she went to see her mother's 'therapist' over the weekend. I asked her how she liked it, and she said she loved it.  I asked for more detail, and she was quick to point out that this therapist was a member of the church - then proceeded to tell me that she channeled or communicated with ancestors and spirits in her therapy - and that specifically, she addressed "the unborn spirit of your (my daughters) future second child."  I immediately was uncomfortable, and said told my daughter that I did not know how I felt about that.  She immediately said in a slightly annoyed tone, "I figured you would feel that way, and so I wasn't going to tell you."  The spirit immediately prompted me to back off and let her talk, so I told her that I was doing my best not to rush to judgment and I wanted to hear more and know about what she liked about it - so she kept sharing.  I ended with telling her that while I was reserving judgement, I was glad the experience made her feel like she was able to release some emotional trauma and feel lighter.

Of course, inside, I am still very concerned and frustrated - My research since (I haven't been able¬†to sleep, as I type this at 6 am) has shown that this therapist is not licensed at all, but is a "Spiritual Healer". ¬† She talked to my daughter about God, ancestors, ancestral trauma (literally saying that some of my daughters issues come from as far as 14 generations ago), the pre-existance (and some trauma coming from there) etc. ¬†I am trying to keep an open mind, but as an active member, this is hard for me to swallow. ¬†In talking to a FB friend who knows this therapist, apparently she (the therapist) is a return missionary and¬†seems to be LDS, at least from what I can ascertain. ¬†So here is my litany of questions for which I seek your valued opinions:¬†ūüôā

1.  What do you think of people who use this kind of approach in treatment?  How can/does someone square this approach with gospel teaching?  Do any of you believe in or practice such things, and are ok with it? I have always been taught communicating with spirits, other than on a very sacred level, was not kosher.  

2. How would you advise I proceed with my daughter - should I not express my discomfort at all and let her continue to see this person?  

3.  Should I mention this to her mother as a concern - even though she weaponizes the church agains me with my kids and is always trying to convince them that I am just trying to control them by having them stay in the church (my ex wife left the church when she left me)? I don't want to give her something else to post to to say "see your dad doesn't care about you feeling good, just about being 'right' and staying LDS."  Also, she never asked me or told me about taking our daughter to such a person - even if it was a legitimate licensed therapist, which she isn't, I feel I should have been at least informed as the custodial parent.

4.  Should I contact the therapist?  If so, what should I say?

5.  Should I be upset and concerned, or am I overreacting?

Thats enough questions for now! ūüôā. I know the firs thing to do (which I have done) is to pry for guidance from Heavenly¬†Father. ¬†Part of the replies to my prayers has lead me hereon again for advice. ¬†I appreciate all of you and look forward to your thoughts!

 

MP

 

 

 

I don't get good vibes about this woman. I went to a Medium, not my niece who is one, but a different one after. And he told me my second daughter wouldn't be able to have children. Well, that daughter had a baby girl almost a year ago. So he was certainly wrong there. But a few things he got right. I mainly like to go because it helps me feel closer to my deceased parents. 

I can see how you would feel worried for your 16 YO daughter. Go with your gut. But do as you're doing and holding back a little, because more than likely this daughter will move on and not take it too seriously, just like most teens. If you prohibit or get upset too much, she may rebel and get more into it. 

Good luck, you got this!!

Link to post
5 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I don't get good vibes about this woman. I went to a Medium, not my niece who is one, but a different one after. And he told me my second daughter wouldn't be able to have children. Well, that daughter had a baby girl almost a year ago. So he was certainly wrong there. But a few things he got right. I mainly like to go because it helps me feel closer to my deceased parents. 

I can see how you would feel worried for your 16 YO daughter. Go with your gut. But do as you're doing and holding back a little, because more than likely this daughter will move on and not take it too seriously, just like most teens. If you prohibit or get upset too much, she may rebel and get more into it. 

Good luck, you got this!!

Thanks, Tacenda - your advice to play the long game is good! ¬†ūüôā. But hard. ¬†

  • Like 1
Link to post
1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

1. I think they are quacks. If they did gave a spiritual gift that let them do such a thing then charging money to exercise it would be priestcraft. Even if you do not charge for it setting up a practice to use the gift probably qualifies as priestcraft.¬†If they did not have such a gift and professed to it would be lying. Someone being an active member of the Church is not somehow proof of the virtue of anything they do and, as your wife is opposed to the church, that claim is dubious. If possible you may want to call the ‚Äútherapist‚Äôs‚ÄĚ bishop and ask what is going on there.

2. I would listen to your daughter. Ask about why she feels she needs this help. Offer a blessing perhaps. The best way to counter the counterfeits of the Spirit are with the real Spirit. It sounds like your daughter enjoyed the novelty and excitement of it. Providing a real taste of the Holy Ghost and the love of God is likely to weaken the impact of a counterfeit.

3. That is a legal question. If custody is not joint you can probably block it legally. I have no idea if this is the best course of action. Depends on relationship with the mother and what the custody agreement says and the possible reaction of your daughter. Another reasonable concern is that we are in the middle of a pandemic and your wife is taking your daughter to a non-medical practice that almost certainly is not following state and local guidelines to protect their patients.

4. This might be the easier way to do it. Contacting the ‚Äútherapist‚ÄĚ may be an easier route to end it. Mentioning that you are the custodial parent and asking her to desist might get her to stop for fear of legal consequences. She is also possibly¬†violating the law in her ‚Äúpractice‚ÄĚ even if she is trying to weasel out of it by calling herself something specific. I do not know Utah law so you¬†would have to most likely consult a lawyer on that point.

5. I would be concerned. These frauds pop up from time to time. The Brethren periodically warn against them. I would not panic though.

Good luck.

Thanks, Nehor.  Priestcraft was the first thing that came to my mind too.  My daughter is on such shaky spiritual ground that even asking her to pray is sometimes met with eye rolls these days, but I like your advice about a blessing and trying to help her have a moment of feeling the spirit.  I will pray and look for an opportunity to invite her to have a blessing 

Link to post
1 hour ago, Maestrophil said:

Thanks, Nehor.  Priestcraft was the first thing that came to my mind too.  My daughter is on such shaky spiritual ground that even asking her to pray is sometimes met with eye rolls these days, but I like your advice about a blessing and trying to help her have a moment of feeling the spirit.  I will pray and look for an opportunity to invite her to have a blessing 

If you need a reason in many homes a ‚Äúback to school‚ÄĚ blessing is common.

  • Like 1
Link to post
18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

If you need a reason in many homes a ‚Äúback to school‚ÄĚ blessing is common.

That was exactly what came to my mind as well!

 

  • Like 2
Link to post
5 hours ago, Maestrophil said:

Hi all,

As usual, when I am faced with a dilemma that involves my faith - I turn to the collective help and wisdom of this group. ¬†ūüôā. This is such a time again, but I am not¬†posting in the¬†general board¬†because I want to specifically get the opinion of those who identify as¬†believing members for this particular issue.

When I picked up my 16 YO daughter from her birth mother's house today (I am the custodial parent), she excitedly told me that she went to see her mother's 'therapist' over the weekend. I asked her how she liked it, and she said she loved it.  I asked for more detail, and she was quick to point out that this therapist was a member of the church - then proceeded to tell me that she channeled or communicated with ancestors and spirits in her therapy - and that specifically, she addressed "the unborn spirit of your (my daughters) future second child."  I immediately was uncomfortable, and said told my daughter that I did not know how I felt about that.  She immediately said in a slightly annoyed tone, "I figured you would feel that way, and so I wasn't going to tell you."  The spirit immediately prompted me to back off and let her talk, so I told her that I was doing my best not to rush to judgment and I wanted to hear more and know about what she liked about it - so she kept sharing.  I ended with telling her that while I was reserving judgement, I was glad the experience made her feel like she was able to release some emotional trauma and feel lighter.

Of course, inside, I am still very concerned and frustrated - My research since (I haven't been able¬†to sleep, as I type this at 6 am) has shown that this therapist is not licensed at all, but is a "Spiritual Healer". ¬† She talked to my daughter about God, ancestors, ancestral trauma (literally saying that some of my daughters issues come from as far as 14 generations ago), the pre-existance (and some trauma coming from there) etc. ¬†I am trying to keep an open mind, but as an active member, this is hard for me to swallow. ¬†In talking to a FB friend who knows this therapist, apparently she (the therapist) is a return missionary and¬†seems to be LDS, at least from what I can ascertain. ¬†So here is my litany of questions for which I seek your valued opinions:¬†ūüôā

1.  What do you think of people who use this kind of approach in treatment?  How can/does someone square this approach with gospel teaching?  Do any of you believe in or practice such things, and are ok with it? I have always been taught communicating with spirits, other than on a very sacred level, was not kosher.  

2. How would you advise I proceed with my daughter - should I not express my discomfort at all and let her continue to see this person?  

3.  Should I mention this to her mother as a concern - even though she weaponizes the church agains me with my kids and is always trying to convince them that I am just trying to control them by having them stay in the church (my ex wife left the church when she left me)? I don't want to give her something else to post to to say "see your dad doesn't care about you feeling good, just about being 'right' and staying LDS."  Also, she never asked me or told me about taking our daughter to such a person - even if it was a legitimate licensed therapist, which she isn't, I feel I should have been at least informed as the custodial parent.

4.  Should I contact the therapist?  If so, what should I say?

5.  Should I be upset and concerned, or am I overreacting?

Thats enough questions for now! ūüôā. I know the firs thing to do (which I have done) is to pry for guidance from Heavenly¬†Father. ¬†Part of the replies to my prayers has lead me hereon again for advice. ¬†I appreciate all of you and look forward to your thoughts!

 

MP

 

 

 

First, Nehor brought up priestcraft. I really, really feel (my opinion) this is not a word to throw around (kind of how I feel when people trot out 'sons of perdition'). People are actually kind of vague about priestcraft, while very certain at the same time; reminds me of when Fezzik says to Vezzini (the smarter? one) that 'I don't think it means what you think it means'. When people (LDS) use this word, it starts the stoning process against a person, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to be part of that process either way, even if someone was making a mistake. Priestcraft (as a term) I think is in the Book of Mormon only; in a quick search I didn't see it elsewhere (although there may be examples without use of the term). Study it out for yourself, but I think, first of all, that there are more criteria for determining priestcraft than 'someone who takes money for their gift'. For example, in 2 Nephi it says: "He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion." 

For example, many people (LDS or otherwise) using their gifts these days are, yes, receiving money for their time, but they ARE seeking the welfare of Zion i.e. the healing and blessing and union of all mankind. And, also, simply receiving a fee for one's time that allows them to provide for their family and continue to use that time to bless others (which they would not be able to do if they did not receive money) does not equate with 'getting gain'. Getting gain involves harming others up to including murders, in order to have advantage for oneself. I would venture that most healers are not doing that, at least intentionally.  The fact is, everyone receives money for their gifts and talents and time and service; because if not, what ARE we doing to receive money--- NOT our talents? UN-service? Perhaps it could be said that car salesmen are performing priestcraft, or any one who enforces anything at the expense of oppression to others (to use a stereotype and not to really say against really good car salesmen, one of which helped me recently). Or say like women in Bangladesh working on the floors in factories to make our luxury clothes, or whatever, their corporate overlords are doing priestcraft (also an un-nuanced example, but hopefully it still helps my meaning). Well, priestcraft is an endless subject, and I'm sure you didn't want a whole thread on that, but when I hear that word, I feel terror. Because all of my gifts ARE 'soft' gifts. I can play piano, help people heal, sing, write fiction. That's what I can do. If someone doesn't pay me for one of those things, then what do I do? I have also worked as a paralegal, but I've been part of legal offices that were definitely taking advantage, until I realized I couldn't participate in such a machine. I would love, love, love if I could support my family with my talents in encouragement, inspiration, teaching, and healing. Because that's what I'm SUPER good at and what I came to do. And until everyone is healed, we don't have enough healers.

Anyway, enough on that. I know it's not a priestcraft thread, but I have to speak up on it.

Having said all that, it doesn't necessarily follow that this particular woman is the best influence for your daughter. (I don't know from just your description. I'd have to meet her and talk to her.)

I think the problem with some of the 'spiritual' or 'energy' healing is not that it is fundamentally flawed, but that many people are jumping into it without truly developing their gifts and they are misunderstanding a lot of things (again, my personal opinion and observation). That goes to the detriment of those who have incredible and developed gifts that really help people, or could; but those who are not as skilled or who are the 'unhealed healer' are causing problems (inadvertently) and giving the opportunity a bad name. Again, I have no idea where this woman is on that. I'd have to meet and talk to her.

Also, please keep in mind that there is a huge spectrum of (spiritual/energy) healers and what they do. There is no possible way to stamp them all as one thing. I see the entire world as made exclusively of energy, so ALL healing is energy healing, because there isn't any other kind, because energy is the only substance there is. But it doesn't mean that everyone who tacks 'energy' in front of 'healing' and sets out a shingle, so to speak, really knows what they are doing. But there are some who do.

One of the most important criteria I use when allowing anyone to influence me, whether it is an energy healer or a doctor or a car salesman, is if they encourage my own self-authority and my own ability to guide my healing and my choices. If they are telling me what is and what I have to do, for sure, or it really is this way, then I don't swallow this. For example, I do feel a little strange hearing that the HEALER is telling about the unborn children.  Rather, if that is a connection that a person needs to make, they ought to be encouraged to decide that for themselves and cultivate it themselves (with guidance).  Also, if I was guiding the healing of a person, that is absolutely not where I would start lol. But, again, I don't know that woman. Maybe she is perfectly practiced and in tune.

An example I had is when a woman called me requesting a dream interpretation, in which there were twins, she asked me if that meant she should get pregnant. She wanted the dream to tell her what to do. (She felt more special that way.) I said, "Uhh . . . . . you should make a pregnancy decision while awake and after pondering it thoroughly and discussing with your husband and God." Self-authority, not some experience or guide telling each step of life.

It is important to know that A LOT of people see and speak to spirits, especially in the LDS community. A LOT (and entire FB group of thousands). This is not an occasional anomaly. When one has this gift, there is very little guidance as to what to do with it, especially in the LDS world view, other than demonizing or dismissing it. Whether or not one should make a business out of it, I don't know, but it's not just a 'sacred' experience. It's an every day experience for many.

Also, generational and ancestral trauma is real. How healing that is approached is another thing, but we all have that trauma and I feel it needs more attention and tools, not less. I'll leave it at that, unless you want to hear more.

As far as specifically your daughter, I think you can just keep watch for now. And add in your way of healing--being open to listening, priesthood blessings, maybe pay for her to get a massage, ha ha! Teach her about her choices and self-authority and how to recognize when anyone is crossing boundaries. It may be that this woman is mostly harmless and somewhat helpful. But as a parent, you will know if it is worse that than that; just keep praying for guidance.

Edited by Maidservant
Link to post

Something I wanted to add to or clarify:

Precisely because spirits are just people too (ordinary and not exotic), is why I personally am leery in getting a bunch of advice from them. Why would I want extra people trying to chime in on my life? The fact of whether or not they have an earth body is irrelevant. That's like walking up and down the neighborhood and ringing doorbells and taking a poll or vote about an important decision I should do with semi-strangers who don't know me??

There may be SOME spirits worth listening to, but only on the basis that you would listen to anyone else. Not especially because, ooooo, they're from beyond the veil. So they must know more! They don't. If they do, it's because they probably learned it on earth, the same as the rest of us.

Self-authority.

Link to post
2 hours ago, Maidservant said:

First, Nehor brought up priestcraft. I really, really feel (my opinion) this is not a word to throw around (kind of how I feel when people trot out 'sons of perdition'). People are actually kind of vague about priestcraft, while very certain at the same time; reminds me of when Fezzik says to Vezzini (the smarter? one) that 'I don't think it means what you think it means'. When people (LDS) use this word, it starts the stoning process against a person, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to be part of that process either way, even if someone was making a mistake. Priestcraft (as a term) I think is in the Book of Mormon only; in a quick search I didn't see it elsewhere (although there may be examples without use of the term). Study it out for yourself, but I think, first of all, that there are more criteria for determining priestcraft than 'someone who takes money for their gift'. For example, in 2 Nephi it says: "He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion." 

For example, many people (LDS or otherwise) using their gifts these days are, yes, receiving money for their time, but they ARE seeking the welfare of Zion i.e. the healing and blessing and union of all mankind. And, also, simply receiving a fee for one's time that allows them to provide for their family and continue to use that time to bless others (which they would not be able to do if they did not receive money) does not equate with 'getting gain'. Getting gain involves harming others up to including murders, in order to have advantage for oneself. I would venture that most healers are not doing that, at least intentionally.  The fact is, everyone receives money for their gifts and talents and time and service; because if not, what ARE we doing to receive money--- NOT our talents? UN-service? Perhaps it could be said that car salesmen are performing priestcraft, or any one who enforces anything at the expense of oppression to others (to use a stereotype and not to really say against really good car salesmen, one of which helped me recently). Or say like women in Bangladesh working on the floors in factories to make our luxury clothes, or whatever, their corporate overlords are doing priestcraft (also an un-nuanced example, but hopefully it still helps my meaning). Well, priestcraft is an endless subject, and I'm sure you didn't want a whole thread on that, but when I hear that word, I feel terror. Because all of my gifts ARE 'soft' gifts. I can play piano, help people heal, sing, write fiction. That's what I can do. If someone doesn't pay me for one of those things, then what do I do? I have also worked as a paralegal, but I've been part of legal offices that were definitely taking advantage, until I realized I couldn't participate in such a machine. I would love, love, love if I could support my family with my talents in encouragement, inspiration, teaching, and healing. Because that's what I'm SUPER good at and what I came to do. And until everyone is healed, we don't have enough healers.

Anyway, enough on that. I know it's not a priestcraft thread, but I have to speak up on it.

Having said all that, it doesn't necessarily follow that this particular woman is the best influence for your daughter. (I don't know from just your description. I'd have to meet her and talk to her.)

I think the problem with some of the 'spiritual' or 'energy' healing is not that it is fundamentally flawed, but that many people are jumping into it without truly developing their gifts and they are misunderstanding a lot of things (again, my personal opinion and observation). That goes to the detriment of those who have incredible and developed gifts that really help people, or could; but those who are not as skilled or who are the 'unhealed healer' are causing problems (inadvertently) and giving the opportunity a bad name. Again, I have no idea where this woman is on that. I'd have to meet and talk to her.

Also, please keep in mind that there is a huge spectrum of (spiritual/energy) healers and what they do. There is no possible way to stamp them all as one thing. I see the entire world as made exclusively of energy, so ALL healing is energy healing, because there isn't any other kind, because energy is the only substance there is. But it doesn't mean that everyone who tacks 'energy' in front of 'healing' and sets out a shingle, so to speak, really knows what they are doing. But there are some who do.

One of the most important criteria I use when allowing anyone to influence me, whether it is an energy healer or a doctor or a car salesman, is if they encourage my own self-authority and my own ability to guide my healing and my choices. If they are telling me what is and what I have to do, for sure, or it really is this way, then I don't swallow this. For example, I do feel a little strange hearing that the HEALER is telling about the unborn children.  Rather, if that is a connection that a person needs to make, they ought to be encouraged to decide that for themselves and cultivate it themselves (with guidance).  Also, if I was guiding the healing of a person, that is absolutely not where I would start lol. But, again, I don't know that woman. Maybe she is perfectly practiced and in tune.

An example I had is when a woman called me requesting a dream interpretation, in which there were twins, she asked me if that meant she should get pregnant. She wanted the dream to tell her what to do. (She felt more special that way.) I said, "Uhh . . . . . you should make a pregnancy decision while awake and after pondering it thoroughly and discussing with your husband and God." Self-authority, not some experience or guide telling each step of life.

It is important to know that A LOT of people see and speak to spirits, especially in the LDS community. A LOT (and entire FB group of thousands). This is not an occasional anomaly. When one has this gift, there is very little guidance as to what to do with it, especially in the LDS world view, other than demonizing or dismissing it. Whether or not one should make a business out of it, I don't know, but it's not just a 'sacred' experience. It's an every day experience for many.

Also, generational and ancestral trauma is real. How healing that is approached is another thing, but we all have that trauma and I feel it needs more attention and tools, not less. I'll leave it at that, unless you want to hear more.

As far as specifically your daughter, I think you can just keep watch for now. And add in your way of healing--being open to listening, priesthood blessings, maybe pay for her to get a massage, ha ha! Teach her about her choices and self-authority and how to recognize when anyone is crossing boundaries. It may be that this woman is mostly harmless and somewhat helpful. But as a parent, you will know if it is worse that than that; just keep praying for guidance.

Thank you fo the alternate viewpoint.  This is kind of what I was hoping for too.  Because I really struggle with understanding these concepts, especially in the framework of being LDS.

For instance - you mention the generational trauma.  I have a really hard time getting that.  Someone's experience 14 generations ago is supposed to affect us now?  Please do elaborate. I get the 'traditions of our fathers" approach as one way to look at it - but to literally say that because someone, to use an example this woman gave my daughter, froze to death, so now, their nephew (in this case) has developed insomnia with a feeling of not being able to get warm as a result - that seems odd.  Is this the type of thing you think happens or is it different? What about the idea of not being 'punished' for the sins of our fathers etc? Just seems odd to me.

The other thing I fear in much of the new-age type teaching is the focus seems to be on 'letting go" and "clearing".  I never have subscribed to the notion that one needs to easily let go of past errors because they 'did the best they could do'.  I regret my past mis-deeds, while at the same time not feeling quilt due to the cleansing power of Jesus - but I don't rejoice in those choices because I was fortunate enough to have learned a lesson from them.  Does that make sense.  Kind of reminds of the 'cheap grace' doctrine where you just call on Jesus and its 'one-and-done'.

 

I am honestly interested inhering more and trying to learn

 

 

Link to post

I really have a hard time with this situation. 
That being said, In my opinion its a good idea to be curious with her, show a genuine interest and make it SAFE for her to share her journey with you.  You're working against bio mom so the rules are different than if you were in full partnership with bio mom IMO.

 

Also, if this woman is referring to herself as a therapist, that's wrong.  I'm not sure it's your job to bring her down, but trauma should be treated by a professional therapist, preferably using EMDR.  IMO.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I really have a hard time with this situation. 
That being said, In my opinion its a good idea to be curious with her, show a genuine interest and make it SAFE for her to share her journey with you.  You're working against bio mom so the rules are different than if you were in full partnership with bio mom IMO.

 

Also, if this woman is referring to herself as a therapist, that's wrong.  I'm not sure it's your job to bring her down, but trauma should be treated by a professional therapist, preferably using EMDR.  IMO.

 

Yes - to her credit, she calls herself a spiritual healer - My daughter was calling her a therapist, and even thought that she was licensed, but my research has shown she isn't.  

Link to post

Take her to a fortune teller and respond to all of the nonsense as fun entertainment. Approach it like a fascinating research project that respects her intelligence but gives her  information that doesn't come from you. Find another of these healers and she will get a different reading or whatever they call it. Do it yourself so you look like you aren't dismissing it. 

Link to post

Hello Maestrophil... 

This is a difficult situation for certain... How you respond is very important to your relationship with your daughter, now and for the future... I have to tell you... to me, red flags were flying as you described the woman and situation.   I believe, that for yourself... you should seek a priesthood blessing for wisdom and discernment in discussing this with your daughter and for how to proceed.   My own personal opinion is that it was questionable for your wife to take your daughter to this person without telling you.  This is bound to cause confusion in her mind in relation to her faith, particularly at 16 years old.  I wish I had some words of wisdom for you... Others here have offered some valuable insights.  She must already have questions due to your wife leaving the Church.   I do wish you well in this...

I was inactive for 35 years (married a wonderful but non-LDS man), and finally reactivated in August 1995...  During those years I stilled loved the gospel.  And,  I was so hungry spiritually and had begun watching several television evangelists... and would become all caught up in their preaching.  I had even attended a more "new age" community church.  But I started all over at square one in the gospel, reading and studying.   Finally in Oct 1995, I listened to Gen Conference and it was the calm, sure voices and messages that burned within me... that spoke truth to me, and I couldn't run back to the Church fast enough and have never looked back.   

Good luck...

GG

 

  

Edited by Garden Girl
  • Like 4
Link to post
4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Could she be like this woman? I follow this woman on FB, and she doesn't appear to be too scary, and I thought she might be LDS as well.

https://michellpowers.com/

Wow!  She doesn’t seem scary but it is unsettling.  Watching Lori Vallow Daybell, Melanie Gibb, Chad Daybell, and Julie Rowe fall off the path claiming special gifts of visions and energy work, I would be very cautious!

  • Like 1
Link to post
8 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Could she be like this woman? I follow this woman on FB, and she doesn't appear to be too scary, and I thought she might be LDS as well.

https://michellpowers.com/

I consider such ideas to be very scary.  New age ideas are today's paganism.  Even when mixed with gospel themes.

  • Like 2
Link to post
1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

I consider such ideas to be very scary.  New age ideas are today's paganism.  Even when mixed with gospel themes.

Could this have been said about JS and our current prophets though? Not to make this a debate. I just happen to believe that some people's gifts are that they are closer to the other side than some of us. 

Link to post
12 hours ago, Garden Girl said:

Hello Maestrophil... 

This is a difficult situation for certain... How you respond is very important to your relationship with your daughter, now and for the future... I have to tell you... to me, red flags were flying as you described the woman and situation.   I believe, that for yourself... you should seek a priesthood blessing for wisdom and discernment in discussing this with your daughter and for how to proceed.   My own personal opinion is that it was questionable for your wife to take your daughter to this person without telling you.  This is bound to cause confusion in her mind in relation to her faith, particularly at 16 years old.  I wish I had some words of wisdom for you... Others here have offered some valuable insights.  She must already have questions due to your wife leaving the Church.   I do wish you well in this...

I was inactive for 35 years (married a wonderful but non-LDS man), and finally reactivated in August 1995...  During those years I stilled loved the gospel.  And,  I was so hungry spiritually and had begun watching several television evangelists... and would become all caught up in their preaching.  I had even attended a more "new age" community church.  But I started all over at square one in the gospel, reading and studying.   Finally in Oct 1995, I listened to Gen Conference and it was the calm, sure voices and messages that burned within me... that spoke truth to me, and I couldn't run back to the Church fast enough and have never looked back.   

Good luck...

GG

 

  

Thanks, GG.  My daughter also attends some of those 'feel good' churches with her mom and likes the excitement of them also. So it is good to hear that despite you being away and intrigued by other spiritual approaches, you ultimately resonated with the restored gospel.  

¬†Just to be clear - it's my EX wife. ūüôā. My current wife is faithful and sane. ūüôā

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
7 hours ago, LJP said:

Wow!  She doesn’t seem scary but it is unsettling.  Watching Lori Vallow Daybell, Melanie Gibb, Chad Daybell, and Julie Rowe fall off the path claiming special gifts of visions and energy work, I would be very cautious!

Seems very much in the same vein.  

Link to post
23 hours ago, Maidservant said:

First, Nehor brought up priestcraft. I really, really feel (my opinion) this is not a word to throw around (kind of how I feel when people trot out 'sons of perdition'). People are actually kind of vague about priestcraft, while very certain at the same time; reminds me of when Fezzik says to Vezzini (the smarter? one) that 'I don't think it means what you think it means'. When people (LDS) use this word, it starts the stoning process against a person, and I'm pretty sure we wouldn't want to be part of that process either way, even if someone was making a mistake. Priestcraft (as a term) I think is in the Book of Mormon only; in a quick search I didn't see it elsewhere (although there may be examples without use of the term). Study it out for yourself, but I think, first of all, that there are more criteria for determining priestcraft than 'someone who takes money for their gift'. For example, in 2 Nephi it says: "He commandeth that there shall be no priestcrafts; for, behold, priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion." 

For example, many people (LDS or otherwise) using their gifts these days are, yes, receiving money for their time, but they ARE seeking the welfare of Zion i.e. the healing and blessing and union of all mankind. And, also, simply receiving a fee for one's time that allows them to provide for their family and continue to use that time to bless others (which they would not be able to do if they did not receive money) does not equate with 'getting gain'. Getting gain involves harming others up to including murders, in order to have advantage for oneself. I would venture that most healers are not doing that, at least intentionally.  The fact is, everyone receives money for their gifts and talents and time and service; because if not, what ARE we doing to receive money--- NOT our talents? UN-service? Perhaps it could be said that car salesmen are performing priestcraft, or any one who enforces anything at the expense of oppression to others (to use a stereotype and not to really say against really good car salesmen, one of which helped me recently). Or say like women in Bangladesh working on the floors in factories to make our luxury clothes, or whatever, their corporate overlords are doing priestcraft (also an un-nuanced example, but hopefully it still helps my meaning). Well, priestcraft is an endless subject, and I'm sure you didn't want a whole thread on that, but when I hear that word, I feel terror. Because all of my gifts ARE 'soft' gifts. I can play piano, help people heal, sing, write fiction. That's what I can do. If someone doesn't pay me for one of those things, then what do I do? I have also worked as a paralegal, but I've been part of legal offices that were definitely taking advantage, until I realized I couldn't participate in such a machine. I would love, love, love if I could support my family with my talents in encouragement, inspiration, teaching, and healing. Because that's what I'm SUPER good at and what I came to do. And until everyone is healed, we don't have enough healers.

Anyway, enough on that. I know it's not a priestcraft thread, but I have to speak up on it.

Having said all that, it doesn't necessarily follow that this particular woman is the best influence for your daughter. (I don't know from just your description. I'd have to meet her and talk to her.)

I think the problem with some of the 'spiritual' or 'energy' healing is not that it is fundamentally flawed, but that many people are jumping into it without truly developing their gifts and they are misunderstanding a lot of things (again, my personal opinion and observation). That goes to the detriment of those who have incredible and developed gifts that really help people, or could; but those who are not as skilled or who are the 'unhealed healer' are causing problems (inadvertently) and giving the opportunity a bad name. Again, I have no idea where this woman is on that. I'd have to meet and talk to her.

Also, please keep in mind that there is a huge spectrum of (spiritual/energy) healers and what they do. There is no possible way to stamp them all as one thing. I see the entire world as made exclusively of energy, so ALL healing is energy healing, because there isn't any other kind, because energy is the only substance there is. But it doesn't mean that everyone who tacks 'energy' in front of 'healing' and sets out a shingle, so to speak, really knows what they are doing. But there are some who do.

One of the most important criteria I use when allowing anyone to influence me, whether it is an energy healer or a doctor or a car salesman, is if they encourage my own self-authority and my own ability to guide my healing and my choices. If they are telling me what is and what I have to do, for sure, or it really is this way, then I don't swallow this. For example, I do feel a little strange hearing that the HEALER is telling about the unborn children.  Rather, if that is a connection that a person needs to make, they ought to be encouraged to decide that for themselves and cultivate it themselves (with guidance).  Also, if I was guiding the healing of a person, that is absolutely not where I would start lol. But, again, I don't know that woman. Maybe she is perfectly practiced and in tune.

An example I had is when a woman called me requesting a dream interpretation, in which there were twins, she asked me if that meant she should get pregnant. She wanted the dream to tell her what to do. (She felt more special that way.) I said, "Uhh . . . . . you should make a pregnancy decision while awake and after pondering it thoroughly and discussing with your husband and God." Self-authority, not some experience or guide telling each step of life.

It is important to know that A LOT of people see and speak to spirits, especially in the LDS community. A LOT (and entire FB group of thousands). This is not an occasional anomaly. When one has this gift, there is very little guidance as to what to do with it, especially in the LDS world view, other than demonizing or dismissing it. Whether or not one should make a business out of it, I don't know, but it's not just a 'sacred' experience. It's an every day experience for many.

Also, generational and ancestral trauma is real. How healing that is approached is another thing, but we all have that trauma and I feel it needs more attention and tools, not less. I'll leave it at that, unless you want to hear more.

As far as specifically your daughter, I think you can just keep watch for now. And add in your way of healing--being open to listening, priesthood blessings, maybe pay for her to get a massage, ha ha! Teach her about her choices and self-authority and how to recognize when anyone is crossing boundaries. It may be that this woman is mostly harmless and somewhat helpful. But as a parent, you will know if it is worse that than that; just keep praying for guidance.

I can't say enough good for this advice Maidservant! It's well balanced and hopefully makes people sit up and listen! I especially like the end paragraph, good advice for sure!

Link to post
1 hour ago, Maestrophil said:

Thanks, GG.  My daughter also attends some of those 'feel good' churches with her mom and likes the excitement of them also. So it is good to hear that despite you being away and intrigued by other spiritual approaches, you ultimately resonated with the restored gospel.  

¬†Just to be clear - it's my EX wife. ūüôā. My current wife is faithful and sane. ūüôā

 

I'm happy for you... that you have someone to share your life and faith...

GG

  • Like 1
Link to post

I lived in the Seattle area for some 30 years and came into contact with several New Age healers, counselors, clairvoyants and others in that vein. I always got the impression that they were playing with fire without anyone to train them or instruct them in ways to handle their gifts. 

My advice is without addressing the therapist, to have some conversations about those individuals in the Bible that had great gifts and who were not part of the God's people. I am thinking of the priests of pharaoh who contended against Moses. And the fellow that wanted to buy the priesthood from Peter and the apostles. 

I see this as a great opportunity to teach how to discern by the power of the Holy Spirit what is good and what is not. Address how we as God's children are able to distinguish between good and evil. What does it mean that Satan can make some thing he is an angel of Light? What do you think the purpose of Satan wanting to deceive God's children?  Can we be fooled by Satan?   How can to distinguish between Good and Evil?  What do we need to do to be empowered by the Holy Spirit?

Eventually, she will bring up the therapist again and then these questions and their answers can be applied to her.  She may be LDS in name, but her understanding of the Restored Gospel is almost nil if her talking points are a reflection of her beliefs.  She appears to have been deceived and led astray while listening to familiar spirits. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
22 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I disagree. You so circumscribe the definition of priestcraft to make it a useless term as no one would fit the description. I don't think there is a stoning process. Many people in the church eat up priestcraft with joy and those that practice it have defenders. I don't think priestcraft has to overtly harm others to fit the description.

Priestcraft is also not using gifts but the "gifts" this person was selling were explicitly presented as spiritual ones. A therapist can use many gifts without using priestcraft. Someone claiming to commune with the premortal world and the spirit world to "fix" someone is using priestcraft whether the gift is real or a fraud. They are clothing the whole thing in the language of religion to attract customers. Hence, priestcraft.

Okay. Thanks :) . We continue to disagree.

Yes, almost no one does fit the description. Exactly.

I do think that the intention to harm others or take advantage is the most essential part of the description, not the money receiving.

I can think that people (healers) are making a mistake, even a huge mistake, (which I often do), without calling it priestcraft (since in my understanding of what is written, it isn't).

I personally never use the word 'spiritual' for anything. It's a term that carries no meaning in my worldview. (Another subject.) I'm sure there are a lot of healers I would find suspect for a variety of reasons, as I make personal judgments regarding them as I encounter them.

I think that no one ought to create religion, or at least recognize it for what it is when doing so and have a healthy respect for what it is and is not, what it can and can not/ ought not do. (Another subject.)

I know there is a stoning process, where people gang up on people who are healers (of various kind), without true investigation or understanding or benefit of the doubt at least. I'm not talking about the Church. I'm talking about herd mentality when someone is identified to be the beast or devil, and the crowd gets out their pitchforks. It does happen too often. Unfortunately, harmless women (men, too, but women who are trying to use their gifts in their home) who practice Reiki or Foot Zoning get questioned by bishops (etc) at the same level as other less accepted or standardized methods of healing. This goes back to the idea that not all healers (spiritual, energy, holistic, light) are the same. Do a little investigating and try to understand before questioning people's faithfulness. (Not you, just in general for people.)

I personally don't agree with the 'guide' 'spirit' and 'angel' healing (or other engagement), for several reasons, some of which I mentioned in my previous posts, so won't repeat. But I also am willing to take that on a case by case basis because there are a lot of things I don't know and sometimes things are helpful for certain people at certain times and with certain practitioners who might really know what they are doing. So far I haven't found any practitioner that I felt presented something like this that I feel the need to partake. So I tend to agree with you that these are more or less worthless, at least for me; and possibly harmful (but so is eating a lot of donuts; so is listening to other people with earth bodies who don't really have what you need); and to the degree I might give others advice; but with staying ultimately open to having my mind changed if I learn more about it or experience something else that adds to my integrity, healing, and joy of life experience.

But I trust that you've come to your conclusions by your own thought, revelation, and experience. Thanks for the discussion.

Edited by Maidservant
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By hagoth7
      "You lift me and I'll lift thee and we'll ascend together." (Whittier's commentary after attending a Millerite camp meeting.)
      "Do unto others..."
       
      Q: Do you know/love someone who regularly struggles with debilitating mental/emotional challenges, but where you aren't (yet) equipped to help them (or yourself) heal and move forward? 
      Had a lengthy discussion with someone tonight, on the topic of mental/emotional health and similar struggles that impede relationships, bringing to mind Elder Holland's talk "Like a Broken Vessel", and his book "Broken Things to Mend." The discussion is also an outgrowth of a troubling/snowballing concern mentioned from the pulpit earlier this year by a pastor/friend.
      Reminds me of the elderly couple in the ward/branch that my missionary companion and I rented a room from in Denmark. Decades before that, during World War 2, the husband had served in the resistance in his occupied country against the Nazis, and was captured. He suffered the rest of his life from what they did to him. (Most may be aware of the heroic role Danes played in running an underground railroad to smuggle Jews safely to Nazi-free Sweden.) As I recall, she had been a nurse, and as she explained, when they eventually married, she carefully tended to his pains every night, to help him sleep with something approximating peace. An ailment largely physical, that likely also left wounds of another kind. The man was a national treasure and a serious spiritual giant (a former Jehovah's WItness, who genuinely knew/loved the scriptures.) She was that, and genuinely an angel.
      The context of tonight's discussion that I'm slowly getting to, was about an effective form of pyschiatric therapy from a pioneering trailblazer/expert in her field of mental health, that took years for her (and those assisting her) to research, hone, and distill.
      The following is largely a paraphrase of the person I spoke with tonight.
      The therapy was specifically designed for extremely sensitive souls, for whom traditional therapy typically did more harm than good.  It represented her life's ministry to those who are hurting the most, in a hell to *some* degree of their own making, and who regularly contemplate ending it all. So, the discussion quickly shifted gears to the matter of such therapy being largely inaccessible (both because of cost, and because very few therapists are trained in the direly-needed therapy). Her approach, DBT, has been making a difference for such people for years.
      What was refreshing in her approach was that she reminded therapists that using any such imperfect approach, among/between imperfect people, that it was not an issue of *if* such a therapist was gonna make a mistake, but *when.* A frank dismissal of the otherwise-nobly-intentioned "do no harm" hubris. And her required approach of what therapists must do when making such unintentional mistakes is deeply impressive. (Constructive tangent perhaps for another day.)
      So the discussion shifted back to its original intent. What if the therapy was more widely/easily accessible? What if lay people in any family or community could have access to at-your-fingertips training and tools that allowed them to minister to a friend or family member? It is said that the best/fastest way to learn/master something is to volunteer to teach it (something I know to often be true). What if people hurting could themselves opt to step forward and become such a healer? A volunteer, tagteam approach to ministry/healing.
      Catholics and Shriners and Adventists (i.e. Millerites) are known for their healing work in raising up hospitals. What if some in the LDS community stepped forward into this largely-unattended breach...to minister to those hurting silently among us, and to those who might not even know or care what a Mormon is?
      Thoughts? Suggestions?
    • By Bernard Gui
      We had a very interesting and sometimes animated discussion on what some call pornography addiction.
      There is no question, however, that people who have loved ones in addiction...substance or behavioral....have a tough time of it.
      Some call this "tough time" co-dependency. That is not a derogatory word, but simply a term to describe the chaos addiction creates in other peoples' lives.
      There are some common behaviors described by co-dependency....Denial, covering up, isolation, anger, depression, enabling.
      Discovering a loved one is addicted can be debilitating. Fear is the most common reaction....
       Piggy-backing on the previous discussion in which a case was attempted to be made that somehow being faithful LDS makes one more susceptible to problems with pornography,
      My questions are....
      Do you think the above fears are exacerbated because of unique LDS beliefs? Are Mormons more likely to have co-dependency problems because of their religious beliefs?
      Are there aspects of Mormon beliefs and practices that help alleviate the effects of co-dependency? Would you share your experiences?
       
      I'm not interested in discussing whether or not co-dependency is a "recognized medical" issue.
      I use the term simply as a convenience to describe the disruption caused by addiction in their loved ones' lives. 
    • By Cold Steel
      One of the great blessings of the gospel in the latter days is the Lord's gracious gift of the priesthood, both Aaronic and Melchizedek. And the priesthood, defined, is the authority to act in God's name. But when it comes to using the higher priesthood, I've always wondered if it's always required to state the authority of the priesthood and if so, why? We hear stories from earlier times of the ancient church and our own early church where people just used the name of Jesus Christ. Joseph Smith never once (except in ordinations, I suppose) ever spoke by virtue of the priesthood that I've been able to tell. 
      The thing about authority is that we know we have it, the Lord knows we have it; why do we have to state it? 
      This isn't to question the church. If it wants us to do it, they've got it. But I'm just wondering why it would be necessary? 
      In the event one is casting a devil out of a person, but not using oil, is invoking the priesthood counseled? In fact, if one is in such a position, is there anything even published about such things. When I was on my mission, a woman plainly had an evil spirit in her. She was an inactive member of the church and ostensibly we were there to teach her husband (at his request). But during the meal she began acting very strange. She laughed inappropriately, made inappropriate statements, laughed during the prayers and all the while her husband looked at her as though she had three heads! There also was a peculiar "spirit" there that frankly scared the daylights out of all of us, except her. I had only been a member of the church a little more than a year and my partner didn't know what to do. We finally excused ourselves and left, and we were surprised when the woman's husband walked us to our car. He told us she had recently become involved in some strange books and friends and that she had changed over a matter of weeks. He'd become so spooked that he'd asked for some elders to come tell him about the church, hoping they would pick up on the strange behavior of his wife.
      So we squared our shoulders and did what we should have done in the first place...we took it to the bishop! (We weren't going back!)
      The bishop subsequently told us that when he entered the home the hair on the back of his head went up. He refused to tell me what had happened (at the woman's request), but he took the teaching of her husband out of our hands and gave it to two of the Seventy to handle. (We later saw both the woman and her husband at church and she couldn't have been nicer. Her husband didn't tell us what happened, either, but said the problem was resolved and he was happy to have his wife back. He later was baptized.) 
      Well, I kind of got a bit off, but I don't know that such a situation would call for a blessing of the sick or a sharp rebuke. Many protestants use the name of Christ presumptively, without authority, and sometime in an offensive way. People get upset at us when we teach a man must have authority to baptize and maintain the kingdom of God; however, the key that Joseph Smith left us with is that if we follow the majority of the Twelve and the records of the church, we can never go astray. 
      So what are your thoughts?
       
    • By JAHS
      I have two questions regarding the blessing and healing of the sick with respect to using the priesthood:
       
      1.  Is the priesthood an actual power that can in some supernatural way initiate the healing process inside a person (like "the force" in Star Wars) or is it just the authority to call upon God to heal the person?
       
      2.  The scriptures say: "And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up;" (Jame 5: 14-15)
      If all we need to do is pray with faith to cause a sick person to be healed by God, why do we need the priesthood to do it?
      "If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you." (Matt 17: 20)
      Why is using the priesthood a better way to go?
       
       
       
    • By LordUther
      Has anyone read the book The Peacegiver: How Christ Offers to Heal Our Hearts? I'm thinking of getting it but wanted to know if anyone else had read it & their thoughts.
      http://ldsbookuk.com...roducts_id=8861
×
×
  • Create New...