Jump to content

Saints Unscripted on the Book of Abraham


Recommended Posts

2 hours ago, Steve Thompson said:

I will probably regret this, as the BA mss and JS Egyptian papers are not my area of expertise, but ....

image.png.09196be3e27e65dff8daf85f6cc9a94b.png

I leave it up to the reader to determine if the characters in mss. C derive from what would have originally been in the papyrus after characters labeled #10.  Whether characters 11-14 occur elsewhere in the JS Papyri I cannot say.

image.png

Cool!  Where did you find that?  Is there a website or a book that you grabbed it from?

Link to post
49 minutes ago, webbles said:

Cool!  Where did you find that?  Is there a website or a book that you grabbed it from?

If it is the same Stephen Thompson then he does not need a book or website from which to derive that information.

Dr. Stephen E. Thompson holds a Ph.D. degree in Egyptology from Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island

Link to post
26 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

If it is the same Stephen Thompson then he does not need a book or website from which to derive that information.

Dr. Stephen E. Thompson holds a Ph.D. degree in Egyptology from Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island

He had posted an image.  I was just wondering where that image came from.

Link to post

First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images.  I took the images I posted from the JSPP website:

josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.  

 

Link to post
5 minutes ago, Steve Thompson said:

First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images.  I took the images I posted from the JSPP website:

josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.  

 

Oh, so you took those images, added some text and created the compilation that you posted.  Good to know.  Thanks for showing what should be in the gap.

Link to post
23 minutes ago, Steve Thompson said:

First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images.  I took the images I posted from the JSPP website:

josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.  

 

Are there other places in the papyrus where that phrase would also be?  I'm looking through the translation on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathing_Permit_of_Hôr) and it looks like there should be a few more places (such as paragraphs 3, 7, 8, and 10) but I definitely don't know Egyptian so I'm having difficulties finding them.

Link to post

Yes, there are several places in the Book of Breathings papyrus where the name of the deceased appears.  Some are damaged, however, so you won't see the full writing.  Here's one writing of Hr mAa xrw, with the wsir (Osiris) partially missing, from a fragment of the BB papyrus pasted into Pap. JS 2.6:

image.png.aa51f9b81cecb48ab294a68e58d5a1fa.png

After a quick scan of the papyrus and Ritner's transliteration I couldn't find any examples where the entire "Osiris Hor, justified" was written out completely without being damaged in some fashion.  There may be one, but I couldn't find it at the moment.  

Link to post
3 hours ago, Steve Thompson said:

Yes, there are several places in the Book of Breathings papyrus where the name of the deceased appears.  Some are damaged, however, so you won't see the full writing.  Here's one writing of Hr mAa xrw, with the wsir (Osiris) partially missing, from a fragment of the BB papyrus pasted into Pap. JS 2.6:

image.png.aa51f9b81cecb48ab294a68e58d5a1fa.png

After a quick scan of the papyrus and Ritner's transliteration I couldn't find any examples where the entire "Osiris Hor, justified" was written out completely without being damaged in some fashion.  There may be one, but I couldn't find it at the moment.  

Thank you.  I can't seem to view that image though.

Link to post
7 minutes ago, Steve Thompson said:

Sorry.  You may get this twice, but I guess it's better than not having it all.  

image.png.5b7aae7135eefb5908d15976c5447f76.png

That works.  Thanks again.

Link to post

I used to be a proponent of several faithful theories, but after being honest with myself, which has been very therapeutic, I have come to the conclusion that it has nothing at all to do with Abraham. It was invented or borrowed by Joseph Smith.  This actually is the base or benchmark and theories are just trying to prove otherwise.  We know that Joseph was very adamant that the writings were made by Abraham himself.  Whether you use any of the various proposed theories, the papyri still were not from the period of Abraham.
Some may not like this response, but a growing number of Saints are finding faith in Joseph not getting a lot of what he said right.

Link to post
34 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I used to be a proponent of several faithful theories, but after being honest with myself, which has been very therapeutic, I have come to the conclusion that it has nothing at all to do with Abraham. It was invented or borrowed by Joseph Smith.  This actually is the base or benchmark and theories are just trying to prove otherwise.  We know that Joseph was very adamant that the writings were made by Abraham himself.  Whether you use any of the various proposed theories, the papyri still were not from the period of Abraham.
Some may not like this response, but a growing number of Saints are finding faith in Joseph not getting a lot of what he said right.

I dispute that "this is actually the base or benchmark". It is the conclusion you have come to, but I see no reason for it to be a common point of departure. 

The papyri not being from the period of Abraham is not a disqualifier for being related to Abraham. 

Nevertheless, if Saints truly find faith under such circumstances, more power to them. 

  • Like 1
Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...