Saints Unscripted on the Book of Abraham

[webbles]

2 hours ago, Steve Thompson said:

I will probably regret this, as the BA mss and JS Egyptian papers are not my area of expertise, but ....

I leave it up to the reader to determine if the characters in mss. C derive from what would have originally been in the papyrus after characters labeled #10.  Whether characters 11-14 occur elsewhere in the JS Papyri I cannot say.

Cool!  Where did you find that?  Is there a website or a book that you grabbed it from?

[CA Steve]

49 minutes ago, webbles said:

Cool!  Where did you find that?  Is there a website or a book that you grabbed it from?

If it is the same Stephen Thompson then he does not need a book or website from which to derive that information.

Dr. Stephen E. Thompson holds a Ph.D. degree in Egyptology from Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island

[webbles]

26 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

If it is the same Stephen Thompson then he does not need a book or website from which to derive that information.

Dr. Stephen E. Thompson holds a Ph.D. degree in Egyptology from Brown University in Providence, Rhode Island

He had posted an image.  I was just wondering where that image came from.

[Steve Thompson]

First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images.  I took the images I posted from the JSPP website:

josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.  

 

[webbles]

5 minutes ago, Steve Thompson said:

First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images.  I took the images I posted from the JSPP website:

josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.  

 

Oh, so you took those images, added some text and created the compilation that you posted.  Good to know.  Thanks for showing what should be in the gap.

[webbles]

23 minutes ago, Steve Thompson said:

First, I apologize for the duplicate posting of the images.  I took the images I posted from the JSPP website:

josephsmithpapers.org/site/book-of-abraham-and-egyptian-material

I clipped images of the writing of Hor's name from another column in the papyrus, and then clipped figures 11-14 from mss. C.  

 

Are there other places in the papyrus where that phrase would also be?  I'm looking through the translation on wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathing_Permit_of_Hôr) and it looks like there should be a few more places (such as paragraphs 3, 7, 8, and 10) but I definitely don't know Egyptian so I'm having difficulties finding them.

[Steve Thompson]

Yes, there are several places in the Book of Breathings papyrus where the name of the deceased appears.  Some are damaged, however, so you won't see the full writing.  Here's one writing of Hr mAa xrw, with the wsir (Osiris) partially missing, from a fragment of the BB papyrus pasted into Pap. JS 2.6:

After a quick scan of the papyrus and Ritner's transliteration I couldn't find any examples where the entire "Osiris Hor, justified" was written out completely without being damaged in some fashion.  There may be one, but I couldn't find it at the moment.  

[webbles]

3 hours ago, Steve Thompson said:

Yes, there are several places in the Book of Breathings papyrus where the name of the deceased appears.  Some are damaged, however, so you won't see the full writing.  Here's one writing of Hr mAa xrw, with the wsir (Osiris) partially missing, from a fragment of the BB papyrus pasted into Pap. JS 2.6:

After a quick scan of the papyrus and Ritner's transliteration I couldn't find any examples where the entire "Osiris Hor, justified" was written out completely without being damaged in some fashion.  There may be one, but I couldn't find it at the moment.  

Thank you.  I can't seem to view that image though.

[Steve Thompson]

35 minutes ago, webbles said:

Thank you.  I can't seem to view that image though.

Sorry.  You may get this twice, but I guess it's better than not having it all.  

[webbles]

7 minutes ago, Steve Thompson said:

Sorry.  You may get this twice, but I guess it's better than not having it all.  

That works.  Thanks again.

[2BizE]

I used to be a proponent of several faithful theories, but after being honest with myself, which has been very therapeutic, I have come to the conclusion that it has nothing at all to do with Abraham. It was invented or borrowed by Joseph Smith.  This actually is the base or benchmark and theories are just trying to prove otherwise.  We know that Joseph was very adamant that the writings were made by Abraham himself.  Whether you use any of the various proposed theories, the papyri still were not from the period of Abraham.
Some may not like this response, but a growing number of Saints are finding faith in Joseph not getting a lot of what he said right.

[OGHoosier]

34 minutes ago, 2BizE said:

I used to be a proponent of several faithful theories, but after being honest with myself, which has been very therapeutic, I have come to the conclusion that it has nothing at all to do with Abraham. It was invented or borrowed by Joseph Smith.  This actually is the base or benchmark and theories are just trying to prove otherwise.  We know that Joseph was very adamant that the writings were made by Abraham himself.  Whether you use any of the various proposed theories, the papyri still were not from the period of Abraham.
Some may not like this response, but a growing number of Saints are finding faith in Joseph not getting a lot of what he said right.

I dispute that "this is actually the base or benchmark". It is the conclusion you have come to, but I see no reason for it to be a common point of departure. 

The papyri not being from the period of Abraham is not a disqualifier for being related to Abraham. 

Nevertheless, if Saints truly find faith under such circumstances, more power to them.