Jump to content

'The Righteous Need Not Fear'


Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, Calm said:

For preventing you from becoming infected or you preventing others?  There is a difference.  Sometimes this is not made clear...and sometimes people don't care about what is happening with others.

Both. I’m not advocating for not wearing them. I always wear one when I am in the required situations. One expert I read said wearing a cloth mask is like building a chain link fence to keep out mosquitos. Another said once the mask becomes moist it ceases to be effective so you should change them frequently. I’m just saying there is a lot of confusion and contradictory information.

Link to post

Our state health department just announced on-line school openings in the fall. Perhaps they could study the Queensland distance school system that I got to observe in person while living there for a teacher exchange program.

It is not going to be easy and will create gargantuan problems for parents with multiple kids at home and two-parent wage earners. How this will work for classes that require physical contact between teachers and students has not been described yet....with less than 5 weeks before school starts.

Sister Gui wrote this social media response....

  Quote

Washington health departments are recommending online school in the fall and school districts who were planning on hybrid openings are now announcing online for September. I’m a teacher in Puyallup School District, and like many of you I am disappointed to not be able to have normal school-especially in our new building! The way I see it, we will not be able to have school until it is “safe”. Before March 13 our community accepted a certain level of risk in order to have social contact that facilitated education, economics and recreation. Since then, our definition of safe keeps changing. Knowledge and data keeps changing. So it’s hard to predict what will happen this school year. But I think families that are making important decisions should consider that online school this fall will be very different from last spring when we were all reeling from the sudden loss of our lives as we knew them. These fall classes will be rigorous, full curriculum, full engagement and accountability driven. We have learned and will continue to learn how to best teach in a distance learning situation. If possible, those classes will eventually move back into the classroom to continue curriculum taught online. This is going to be challenging for parents and teachers, but we owe it to our kids to work together for success. I wish you all well as you make plans for your families this fall.

  • Like 2
Link to post
9 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

Not sure why anyone would err on the side of no mask when info is constantly changing

It’s the panic and hysteria that follow the masking imperatives that are disconcerting.

Link to post
5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

It’s the panic and hysteria that follow the masking imperatives that are disconcerting.

I would agree that panic is not helpful.

My position is that its hardly more than an inconvenience to wear a mask, and with info changing daily regarding the value of them, I'm erring on the side of caution.  I also try my best to wear the mask properly.  No problem - it's a bit uncomfortable but I'm much more comfortable wearing it than I am not and running a risk of infecting someone or myself.  

  • Like 1
Link to post
On 7/23/2020 at 9:20 PM, Rain said:

I find it REALLY weird that people keep saying I am living in fear.  I'm at varying stages of preparedness of those things above, but I'm prepared enough that I'm not living in fear.  

I was not aware that I or others were suggesting that you are living in fear. I know I suggested any such thing.

Link to post
4 hours ago, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I was not aware that I or others were suggesting that you are living in fear. I know I suggested any such thing.

You didn't not mention me specifically, but you did mention me by way of group:

Quote

Even members, as well as friends on Facebook, are frightened, to the point that some speak of not returning to Church, until this pandemic is over, or a vaccine is discovered, and they can get it. 

Now, I'm not planning on waiting till the pandemic is over or until there is a vaccine, but there is no way I am going back when church starts next month in my ward and until it feels right I have no plans to go back.  The people you see on facebook may feel just the way I do.  

So while you didn't specifically say "rain is living in fear", I am someone who many define as living in fear.  And I'm really tired of it. 

Edited by Rain
  • Like 2
Link to post
On 7/24/2020 at 8:42 AM, Bernard Gui said:

Both. I’m not advocating for not wearing them. I always wear one when I am in the required situations. One expert I read said wearing a cloth mask is like building a chain link fence to keep out mosquitos. Another said once the mask becomes moist it ceases to be effective so you should change them frequently. I’m just saying there is a lot of confusion and contradictory information.

What is consistent is that masks have been used for over 100 years to reduce the spread of disease and infection.  If a surgeon operated without a mask on, he would get sued faster than the stitches would heal.  This really isn't some kind of new experimental way of curbing the spread of disease.

  • Like 1
Link to post
3 hours ago, california boy said:

What is consistent is that masks have been used for over 100 years to reduce the spread of disease and infection.  If a surgeon operated without a mask on, he would get sued faster than the stitches would heal.  This really isn't some kind of new experimental way of curbing the spread of disease.

I never said it was. In fact, I said I am not advocating not wearing them and I wear them myself. The controversy and contradictory information is not about surgeons. Do you follow the Mayo Clinic protocols for COVID-avoidance mask wearing?

Quote

Here are a few pointers for putting on and taking off a mask:

  • Wash or sanitize your hands before and after putting on and taking off your mask.
  • Place your mask over your mouth and nose.
  • Tie it behind your head or use ear loops and make sure it's snug.
  • Don't touch your mask while wearing it.
  • If you accidentally touch your mask, wash or sanitize your hands.
  • If your mask becomes wet or dirty, switch to a clean one. Put the used mask in a sealable bag until you can wash it.
  • Remove the mask by untying it or lifting off the ear loops without touching the front of the mask or your face.
  • Wash your hands immediately after removing your mask.
  • Regularly wash your mask with soap and water by hand or in the washing machine. It's fine to launder it with other clothes.

 

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to post
8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

I never said it was. In fact, I said I am not advocating not wearing them and I wear them myself. The controversy and contradictory information is not about surgeons. Do you follow the Mayo Clinic protocols for COVID-avoidance mask wearing?

 

 

But you did say there was there was a lot of confusion and conflicting information.  I am saying there has not been any conflicting information for 100 years on the knowledge that masks reduce exposure from disease and infection.  Wearing a mask is not some experimental idea that may or may not help.

Screen Shot 2020-07-28 at 7.41.20 AM.png

Edited by california boy
  • Like 1
Link to post
12 hours ago, california boy said:

 

But you did say there was there was a lot of confusion and conflicting information.  I am saying there has not been any conflicting information for 100 years on the knowledge that masks reduce exposure from disease and infection.  Wearing a mask is not some experimental idea that may or may not help.

Screen Shot 2020-07-28 at 7.41.20 AM.png

Yeah, if you are talking about surgeons and other care givers. Vader was essentially dead before he took off the mask. The general populace, not so much. In the early stages the CDC said wearing masks would only make things worse. They changed their tune, but other experts still hold to that. My SIL is a bacteriologist. She says you are taking a huge risk if you do not treat the mask properly, and most people do not. Take a look at the photos of  Pelosi  and others with the masks dangling under their chins, on their foreheads, or hanging from their ears. That is a gross violation of protocol. Go to any store that requires masks and see how many have the mask over the mouth with the nose exposed, or leaving used masks in shopping carts or on the parking lot, or taking the masks off when they leave the store and putting them in their pockets. The most dangerous thing about masks is that they give us a false sense of protection. Unless used properly, they can be even more dangerous than not wearing one. The science on that is settled. Do you follow the established protocols for safe usage of masks? I hope so. For the third time I will say that I do not object to the proper wearing of masks in the required circumstances. On the trail to Mt Rainier today, we passed hikers who were alone on a trail in the heat of the sun wearing masks. Ummmm.

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to post

nvm. 

Edited by Calm
Link to post
On 7/28/2020 at 9:43 AM, california boy said:

 

But you did say there was there was a lot of confusion and conflicting information.  I am saying there has not been any conflicting information for 100 years on the knowledge that masks reduce exposure from disease and infection.  Wearing a mask is not some experimental idea that may or may not help.

Screen Shot 2020-07-28 at 7.41.20 AM.png

Nah, the supernatural electricity had fried his life support system. They should have turned off the machine decades ago.

One of the (now) non-canon novels had Vader continually trying to heal himself with the healing power of the Force but each attempt brought him joy, happiness, and optimism which was incompatible with the dark side energy he was using. He was attempting to condition himself to feel nothing but hate even as his body was mended. Kind of sad. Combine these emojis: :( :vader:

Link to post
19 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

In the early stages the CDC said wearing masks would only make things worse.

Originally the CDC was justifiably concerned that the mask panic buying was taking the masks from those who desperately needed them more (health care workers) so they downplayed the benefits. Once the mask shortage was resolved and we have a whole cottage industry making masks it was reversed. Then it got politicized.

I had to go to the bank and go shopping today (first time in a month to get food so I was getting low) and I was pleasantly surprised. Everyone had a mask on and the only person I saw not wearing their mask over their nose was a young girl. Admittedly at the bank one person pulled their mask away while they sneezed. Not sure that person got the point of a mask.

  • Like 2
Link to post
12 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Originally the CDC was justifiably concerned that the mask panic buying was taking the masks from those who desperately needed them more (health care workers) so they downplayed the benefits. Once the mask shortage was resolved and we have a whole cottage industry making masks it was reversed. Then it got politicized.

I had to go to the bank and go shopping today (first time in a month to get food so I was getting low) and I was pleasantly surprised. Everyone had a mask on and the only person I saw not wearing their mask over their nose was a young girl. Admittedly at the bank one person pulled their mask away while they sneezed. Not sure that person got the point of a mask.

Who wants to deal with a mask full of sneeze stuff? Sneezing into a mask expels airborne viruses since the protective materials in the masks is insufficiently small to prevent air to escape, especially when it is forcefully expelled, no? I'm going out to get my mask and some pepper now to try it out.

Link to post
48 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Who wants to deal with a mask full of sneeze stuff? Sneezing into a mask expels airborne viruses since the protective materials in the masks is insufficiently small to prevent air to escape, especially when it is forcefully expelled, no? I'm going out to get my mask and some pepper now to try it out.

I wanted that person to deal with it instead of sharing it. The mask does not prevent air from escaping but it does mitigate the spread of larger things like viruses and the stuff viruses ride around on.

Edited by The Nehor
Link to post
1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Originally the CDC was justifiably concerned that the mask panic buying was taking the masks from those who desperately needed them more (health care workers) so they downplayed the benefits. Once the mask shortage was resolved and we have a whole cottage industry making masks it was reversed. Then it got politicized.

I think the Surgeon General's tweet was by far the most confusing, misleading, and damaging of all.

Quote

 

Seriously people- STOP BUYING MASKS!  

They are NOT effective in preventing general public from catching #Coronavirus, but if healthcare providers can’t get them to care for sick patients, it puts them and our communities at risk!

 

I remember very clearly turning to my colleagues and saying, "wait, they work for us but not for the general public?"

I agree with the intent to save them for front-line workers, but the very fact that he wanted them for front-line workers suggests that he suspected they were effective.  It has been damage control ever since.  

Edited by pogi
  • Like 2
Link to post
4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I wanted that person to deal with it instead of sharing it. The mask does not prevent air from escaping but it does mitigate the spread of larger things like viruses and the stuff viruses ride around on.

Do I understand you to be saying that a mask prevents the escape of viruses forcefully expressed by a sneeze because of the size of the virus? That would have to be a very tiny filter.

Link to post
6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Originally the CDC was justifiably concerned that the mask panic buying was taking the masks from those who desperately needed them more (health care workers) so they downplayed the benefits. Once the mask shortage was resolved and we have a whole cottage industry making masks it was reversed. Then it got politicized.

Mayo Clinic says

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.”

UCFS:

Both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization now recommend cloth masks for the general public, but earlier in the pandemic, both organizations recommended just the opposite. These shifting guidelines may have sowed confusion among the public about the utility of masks.”

There was confusion because of lack of information and conflicting recommendations. 

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to post
12 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Do I understand you to be saying that a mask prevents the escape of viruses forcefully expressed by a sneeze because of the size of the virus? That would have to be a very tiny filter.

No, it mitigates. It blocks some of it. It does not block or significantly lessen Oxygen intake or trap Carbon Dioxide either. The molecules that make up Oxygen and Carbon dioxide are several orders of magnitude smaller than the virus. The masks surgeons have been using for a century in surgery do not block everything coming out of the surgeon's mouth but it does lessen it. If you want total protection you need a scuba outfit or a hazmat suit.

17 hours ago, pogi said:

I think the Surgeon General's tweet was by far the most confusing, misleading, and damaging of all.

I remember very clearly turning to my colleagues and saying, "wait, they work for us but not for the general public?"

I agree with the intent to save them for front-line workers, but the very fact that he wanted them for front-line workers suggests that he suspected they were effective.  It has been damage control ever since.  

Yeah, it was badly expressed. I understand why they presented it that way but it damaged the later calls for everyone to mask. Was it worth it? I am not sure. I don't know if the lie got more masks into the hands of health care workers compared to how many went anti-mask. I am hoping the anti-mask hysteria will die down as the main symbols of that movement have "sort of" capitulated on it. Maybe not. I was reading last night about anti-mask demonstrations in Canada in a province where masking is not mandatory so rationality is probably not the weapon of choice here.

  • Like 1
Link to post
12 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Mayo Clinic says

So why weren't face masks recommended at the start of the pandemic? At that time, experts didn't know the extent to which people with COVID-19could spread the virus before symptoms appeared. Nor was it known that some people have COVID-19 but don't have any symptoms. Both groups can unknowingly spread the virus to others.”

UCFS:

Both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization now recommend cloth masks for the general public, but earlier in the pandemic, both organizations recommended just the opposite. These shifting guidelines may have sowed confusion among the public about the utility of masks.”

There was confusion because of lack of information and conflicting recommendations. 

I still say it was about the lack of PPE. Even at the time they were telling the public not to hoard masks many voices were giving that as the reason for the recommendation and not that they were useless. They were right that we were less sure how effective they would be but with the limited supply it was better to use them in health care settings.

  • Like 1
Link to post
On 7/29/2020 at 3:58 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Who wants to deal with a mask full of sneeze stuff? Sneezing into a mask expels airborne viruses since the protective materials in the masks is insufficiently small to prevent air to escape, especially when it is forcefully expelled, no? I'm going out to get my mask and some pepper now to try it out.

Much better alternative - - - http://americanthinker.com/articles/2020/07/hydroxy_hysteria_reaching_a_fever_pitch.html

  • Like 1
Link to post
On 7/23/2020 at 10:36 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

When I was a child the polio virus was so omnipresent that we all were required to be vaccinated and to receive a yearly booster thereafter. I still clearly remember standing in long lines to receive immunizations from public health personnel, initially with conventional hypodermic needles, later with a pistol-like device pressed against the arm, and still later, a sugar cube with a drop of serum applied to it. What a great day that was, when we could eat a cube of sugar instead of getting stuck in the arm. Then, the day came when we no longer had to receive a polio vaccine at all. 
 

Has polio truly been eradicated? Perhaps there are some corners of the globe where the virus still exists. All I know is that it no longer poses a threat to me or to anyone I know. 
 

Perhaps you are right that the China virus is here to stay and that we all will “get it.”  I just don’t see how anyone can be certain of that at this point. 

The China virus? Sigh....

Link to post
On 7/23/2020 at 3:21 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

I called it that because it started in China. 
 

How about the Wu flu? 
 

Edited to add: Political correctness is the second worst epidemic to grip the nation in 2020. Fortunately, I’ve developed a resistance to the strain. 

Such a strong noble fellow you are( Not really)....I would say more but we are not supposed to be political.  I guess I am not surprised that you parrot he whom we will not name.  

Link to post
On 7/23/2020 at 7:42 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s not being racist to indicate where it started. It is, however, indicative of PC run amok to make an accusation like that. 

Yea the way you and others use it is racist no matter your protestation.

Link to post
On 7/23/2020 at 8:36 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

When I was a child the polio virus was so omnipresent that we all were required to be vaccinated and to receive a yearly booster thereafter. I still clearly remember standing in long lines to receive immunizations from public health personnel, initially with conventional hypodermic needles, later with a pistol-like device pressed against the arm, and still later, a sugar cube with a drop of serum applied to it. What a great day that was, when we could eat a cube of sugar instead of getting stuck in the arm. Then, the day came when we no longer had to receive a polio vaccine at all. 
 

Has polio truly been eradicated? Perhaps there are some corners of the globe where the virus still exists. All I know is that it no longer poses a threat to me or to anyone I know. 
 

Perhaps you are right that the China virus is here to stay and that we all will “get it.”  I just don’t see how anyone can be certain of that at this point. 

Polio is considered eradicated in the USA, but not all countries including countries close to the US like Mexico.

Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...