What Are We to do, When Those in My Age Bracket Have, or Will Be Away So Long?

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

My Ward has a large number of members that are over the age of 60, including my wife and I, and friends we have had for over three decades. We have received word that we might finally we will have “Sacrament only”, for 20 minutes, twice on Sunday. We are also told that like other areas, those 60 or older will  not be able to attend. Earlier in the year, due to health problems, I was only been able to attend, two Sacrament meetings, and Sunday School/ Priesthood meetings (one of each), before everything got shut down. Also since General Conference is going to be like April, where members cannot attend, for this October, but some too poor, or much older and don’t even know how to tune into General Conference, meaning they have had little to know contact with The Church, for a very long tine. In fact, I have older friends, who even in this day and age, who don’t own computers, and do not have cable.  Even our missionaries are being encouraged to do labor or yard work for anyone in need, or just to keep them busy, but they are not even allowed to enter any member’s  home.  
 

I, unlike other family’s, am blessed, because each Sunday, we eat together each, we have three, or four Priesthood holders (when everyone make it) to bless and pass the Sacrament. But many of our friends, who are widows, or part member families, do not have a Priesthood holder in the home. Also sadly either don’t have family to attend, for various reasons, most due to their children living out of State. Currently, many doctors who are on the news, are now predicting a rise again, or greater danger, in late fall, winter, and early spring, all due too cold or cooler weather. I would not be surprised, if due to the cooler weather in Utah, April General Conference, could also, only be televised. 
 

So, I ask what is to be done? There is a quote, “that absence makes the heart grow fonder”, but I remember hearing President Kimball tell us, (along with other Prophets and Apostles) that with the Gospel, missing just a few Sacrament meetings, can threaten our testimonies. I am one of those odd beings, because the scriptures, and the study of all things related too the Gospel, are like air to my lungs. But, I must admit, no matter how much I love being in Church, unless I am speaking, or teaching, the “introvert” within me, missing out on socials and small talk, does  appeal to me, in a very a very small way. I wonder however, if the opening of Temples for marriages, is it because it is most often the young, having such weddings?. I also worry, that many will miss out, or loose interest in serving missions. Also as I understand it, they are afraid that those who wish to serve “Senior Missions”, due to their age, and the risk. 
 

Some truly need the act of gathering, listening to Sacrament Talks, Sunday School, and Priesthood lessons, to grow mighty in the Spirit. Although I will always continue doing daily Scripture Study, and I am able to bless and partake of the Sacrament, I too need the fellowship of the Saints. Also, if we take percussions, should it not be our choice? Also, what of the promise, “The righteous need not fear”? My fear is that many, especially who were (to coin a phrase), “hanging by a thread”, or even a rope for that matter, I fear this might break that thread, or cut that rope. Or cause many who are away for so long, to wonder, “why do I need The Church after all”? I fear they might think, “I am a believer in Jesus Christ, I will remain so, and other Churches will not never turn me away, for any reason”. As here in Georgia, there is a Baptist, Methodist, ot Church of Christ, or several within 5 miles from my home, (as in my Ward and many others in the South, some travel 10-20 miles to attend Church) and many, if not most have already opened back up. I am a TBM, and shall ever be, one, but even an introvert like myself, do sooooo miss going to Church again, and look forward to that day!
 

So, I wish for some constructive conversation, some for two widows I minister too, who themselves have raised many of these questions. Since this forum is almost my only interactions with my fellow members (Saints), please help, and do not be dismissive. Or as one of my brethren said a few months ago, “I was just ranting, and whining”, I come to you, because I have know many of you for 13+ years, and value your input. So, here is hoping for your patience and understanding, and I pray this finds you all well. Simply put, I love you guys, therefore I seek your wisdom and counseling.  .  .  

[The Nehor]

While I appreciate President Kimball's counsel this is a different world. Our access to the gospel even in isolation is vast. Video calls with other members, access to video of General Conference sermons spanning over four decades, and vast libraries of gospel learning at our fingertips means we are isolated from the gospel and fellowship only if we choose to be. I do acknowledge this could lead to a sifting in the membership but I think it will be by choice and not due to circumstance.

[Boanerges]

I too live in a ward with a high number of those over 60, many single women (widowed or divorced). I have thought this myself. I think they miss out more than others. In the beginning of the lockdown we weren't permitted to take sacrament to anyone but that did eventually change so we could take it to others but not linger, they supplied their own bread and water, etc. I think ministering brothers have been good at meeting that need, I don't have any that I'm assigned to minister to or that live nearby. Some of them still work, but outside of that I think their social lives revolved around the church and church activities. Again, I'm sure they're missing out. My wife and I are empty nesters and we do the sacrament ourselves at home. I suppose in that respect we are blessed. And I know there are some in our ward who do not have the tech knowhow or capability either by choice or just because they "can't" do it (such as never learned, don't have the equipment, etc.). That doesn't prevent the sacrament being taken to them but it does mean they can't participate in the ward Zoom meetings that have been held (but are voluntary anyway). 

The other side of the coin is that we have also really enjoyed home church. We do the sacrament when we want (although most of the time we've done it following Music and the Spoken Word) and we can study what we want when we want. Like you Bill, I am more of an introvert and don't really miss the social aspect of church, and that's not why I go (I go to take the sacrament in case you're wondering). My wife is more social and it probably affects her more than me but she has stated how much she likes home church. Our sacrament has been nice and we've had some decent gospel discussions that we might not normally have had.

I do think some will, probably a small handful, might decide they've lived without the church this long and won't come back. I honestly don't see that happening when my ward comes back but I can't see the future. I actually think the opposite will happen - those that are older and told to stay away won't at least partly because they're starved for the interaction. Our bishop is in his 60s and I'm sure he won't stay away, and I doubt our RS president (also 60s) will either.

Lastly, the "home centered, church supported" idea was not new to the pandemic. I've always liked the idea, and like it even more now. Maybe this will be part of the "new normal." Perhaps there was a lesson to be learned here. Kimball lived in a different time, and to some extent a different church. I was baptized during his administration and enough before he was incapacitated to have heard him speak in Conference. The gospel is the same, but the church is much larger and quite different from when it what it was then. Perhaps part of what has changed is more reliance on understanding for ourselves and not being guilted into attendance.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Boanerges

[Tacenda]

Papa, is there a way to get laptops to these people without them, and someone to show them how to use, and then have zoom meetings somehow? I think that would be a dealbreaker. Of course not everyone can afford internet etc. I wish the church could help with the cost as well. I have an Acer laptop that was only around 200. I think the church should help these people out, that's what tithing is for am I correct? And we all know the funds the church has at their disposal. By laptop they'd be able to watch conference as well. This should be a no brainer for the church to do.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Tacenda

[strappinglad]

Having heard some odd doctrines expressed in regular SS classes, I wonder what the membership will come out with after several months of " home study " . 😊

[The Nehor]

14 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Having heard some odd doctrines expressed in regular SS classes, I wonder what the membership will come out with after several months of " home study " . 😊

Yeah last week I realized I am the Holy Ghost and I am terrible at my job.

[Robert F. Smith]

28 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Papa, is there a way to get laptops to these people without them, and someone to show them how to use, and then have zoom meetings somehow? I think that would be a dealbreaker. Of course not everyone can afford internet etc. I wish the church could help with the cost as well. I have an Acer laptop that was only around 200. I think the church should help these people out, that's what tithing is for am I correct? And we all know the funds the church has at their disposal. By laptop they'd be able to watch conference as well. This should be a no brainer for the church to do.

All very good ideas, Tacenda, and the Church does have the expertise and funds to make it happen -- if directed by the Prophet.  However, it isn't only laptops and training that are needed, but access to the internet/wifi.  Many parts of the USA and the world do not have internet access.  It is very important that the Church explore getting access for everyone.

[Tacenda]

15 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

All very good ideas, Tacenda, and the Church does have the expertise and funds to make it happen -- if directed by the Prophet.  However, it isn't only laptops and training that are needed, but access to the internet/wifi.  Many parts of the USA and the world do not have internet access.  It is very important that the Church explore getting access for everyone.

I did mention the internet being needed. I'm sure the church could fund it easily. Thanks for your reply Robert. I genuinely feel for these upper aged brackets of people because there almost isn't anything worse than loneliness in the world. In the beginning of the pandemic, I was a bit more lonelier than before, and I remember how excited I was to zoom with my family and play games. And even took a class through zoom, and conversed with a group of people at another time. The church's rainy day fund is kinda needed now, IMO. 

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I did mention the internet being needed. I'm sure the church could fund it easily. ........................

Actually it isn't that simple.  Many parts of America and the world are not yet wired or equipped for internet or wifi.  The costs of getting internet into rural America, etc., are gargantuan, much more than any money the LDS Church has.  This has to be done at a governmental level in many areas and countries.  All large cities in America, all metropolitan areas, are already well wired for internet service.  Making sure that members get access is easy.  It is the rural backwaters which have the greatest difficulty getting access.  Even getting TV is nearly impossible.

The Congress has been considering a bill to get the internet into rural schools at least.

[Rain]

I don't think that laptops would be an effective way.  In my experience, most older people who live in areas with good internet access have computers and internet if they want it. The same with cell phones. 

Even a lot of younger people don't want computers as much as they used to because smart phones do so much.

Ways to reach people:

- Pick up the phone and call them. Seriously, a lot of times it is just that simple. 

- Go visit them.  Sit outside and social distance talk with them.  You may have to speak louder, but that's ok.

- Send letters.  I am 52.  I still enjoy letters and cards. 

- Put a sign in their yard or a chalk message on their walk

- Have flowers, a meal, a good book from Deseret Book delivered to them.

- Put a message on their door or car window.

- Drop off their favorite treat 

 

[Tacenda]

51 minutes ago, Rain said:

I don't think that laptops would be an effective way.  In my experience, most older people who live in areas with good internet access have computers and internet if they want it. The same with cell phones. 

Even a lot of younger people don't want computers as much as they used to because smart phones do so much.

Ways to reach people:

- Pick up the phone and call them. Seriously, a lot of times it is just that simple. 

- Go visit them.  Sit outside and social distance talk with them.  You may have to speak louder, but that's ok.

- Send letters.  I am 52.  I still enjoy letters and cards. 

- Put a sign in their yard or a chalk message on their walk

- Have flowers, a meal, a good book from Deseret Book delivered to them.

- Put a message on their door or car window.

- Drop off their favorite treat 

 

Aww, this for sure, thanks Rain. Great reminder for sure. I should have thought of this, especially having my 91 year old mother-in-law refuse a cell phone, tablet etc a while back. My husband and I visited with her tonight with our masks outside by a Koi pond in front of her retirement community apartment building by the Jordan River temple. She definitely appreciated our visit, and said she needs new slippers, they have a hard surface and she wears them throughout the building and outside, she's a walker and a half!

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

All very good ideas, Tacenda, and the Church does have the expertise and funds to make it happen -- if directed by the Prophet.  However, it isn't only laptops and training that are needed, but access to the internet/wifi.  Many parts of the USA and the world do not have internet access.  It is very important that the Church explore getting access for everyone.

Why is this the church's job?

[amo]

8 hours ago, Rain said:

I don't think that laptops would be an effective way.  In my experience, most older people who live in areas with good internet access have computers and internet if they want it. The same with cell phones. 

Even a lot of younger people don't want computers as much as they used to because smart phones do so much.

Ways to reach people:

- Pick up the phone and call them. Seriously, a lot of times it is just that simple. 

- Go visit them.  Sit outside and social distance talk with them.  You may have to speak louder, but that's ok.

- Send letters.  I am 52.  I still enjoy letters and cards. 

- Put a sign in their yard or a chalk message on their walk

- Have flowers, a meal, a good book from Deseret Book delivered to them.

- Put a message on their door or car window.

- Drop off their favorite treat 

 

Thanks for posting these suggestions, Rain. They’re so simple but yet so important, so much so that they are actually the very definition of Gospel given by James.

[USU78]

I go and will continue to go because I must.  I clean and sanitize the Church every Saturday in odd months because I must.  If I'm taken in service or in worship, I'm fine with that.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why is this the church's job?

I'm speaking only of LDS members.  The Church has some great educational programs, such as BYU-Pathway Worldwide, but one must have internet access to use it in foreign countries.  Good programs to provide that include solar batteries, rural hookups, and the like.  We used to have satellite hookups everywhere in the world, but don't believe we use that anymore.

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I'm speaking only of LDS members.  The Church has some great educational programs, such as BYU-Pathway Worldwide, but one must have internet access to use it in foreign countries.  Good programs to provide that include solar batteries, rural hookups, and the like.  We used to have satellite hookups everywhere in the world, but don't believe we use that anymore.

That would be a good way to spend the funds!

Edited July 7, 2020 by Tacenda

[Amulek]

20 hours ago, strappinglad said:

Having heard some odd doctrines expressed in regular SS classes, I wonder what the membership will come out with after several months of " home study " . 😊

That's certainly a possibility. Personally, I have found it mostly to be a very positive experience - at least, so far. 

It has been a real joy for us to have extra time to teach our own children the lessons, and we have loved witnessing them learn and grow as we work our way through the scriptures together as a family. 

As wonderful as our youth and primary instructors are, I will certainly miss turning over a significant portion of that time back over to their hands when everything finally gets back to normal.

 

[mfbukowski]

The problem I think, is that the longer we go without meeting together, and studying at home, etc. we become conditioned to it of necessity.

And after a while it's not so bad.  There are things I do not miss at all.

It's not like I have a choice anyway, so might as well get used to it and find God without meetings.

It's becoming a way of life, for better or worse 

[Calm]

Seems to me this is a good thing. Personal study has been rather limited from what I have heard in the past, especially as a family. If people have learned to appreciate it, hopefully they will be motivated to continue to use it, either as a third hour, FHE, or something else.

This is not an either or situation. There is nothing stopping people from doing both, which was what was intended with the Come Follow Me program as I understand it. The only significant difference would be having the Sacrament as a community. 

[mfbukowski]

34 minutes ago, Calm said:

Seems to me this is a good thing. Personal study has been rather limited from what I have heard in the past, especially as a family. If people have learned to appreciate it, hopefully they will be motivated to continue to use it, either as a third hour, FHE, or something else.

This is not an either or situation. There is nothing stopping people from doing both, which was what was intended with the Come Follow Me program as I understand it. The only significant difference would be having the Sacrament as a community. 

I need to work on actually getting something from meetings, I guess.

I see them more as a chance to serve, which pretty much is "work" and I am naturally lazy.  Gotta turn that one around.

For me it is nice to stay at home and take a day off to commune with God instead of getting dressed up and going to "work"

 

 

Edited July 7, 2020 by mfbukowski

[USU78]

25 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

I need to work on actually getting something from meetings, I guess.

I see them more as a chance to serve, which pretty much is "work" and I am naturally lazy.  Gotta turn that one around.

For me it is nice to stay at home and take a day off to commune with God instead of getting dressed up and going to "work"

Pflichtsmensch.  It's a thing.

[cacheman]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The problem I think, is that the longer we go without meeting together, and studying at home, etc. we become conditioned to it of necessity.

And after a while it's not so bad.  There are things I do not miss at all.

It's not like I have a choice anyway, so might as well get used to it and find God without meetings.

It's becoming a way of life, for better or worse 

Growing up, we had church at home every week.  My family did it as a formal meeting where we would dress up and stick to a schedule.  Every now and then we might have someone from the village join us.  But, the majority of the time it was just us.  Being a small family meant that I had to prepare and give a talk every other week.  For an introvert like myself, it was a nice way to learn public speaking.  That's something that I have always been grateful for.

Of course, without ever meeting the branch president or any other members (we did meet one, once).... and being new converts, we relied solely on church produced materials and the scriptures.  So, the cultural aspects of the church were simply those of our family.  I guess there are pros and cons to that.

-cacheman

[Calm]

Where did you live, cacheman?  If you don’t mind sharing. 

[nuclearfuels]

Hold fast.

Most of human history has not included the current structure of the Church meeting on Sundays. 

Nehor's right about the vast info that's available online, in addiiton to video conferencing.

Personally, I don't miss meeting on Sundays with the group. 

It seems like each ward I attend, people interpret and teach the gospel according to thier own political views, same as I would do if I was teaching.

And tobe honest, I can't seem to process lessons God has in store for me when the setting is a group context. 

Now, I'm presiding every Sunday!

 

[mfbukowski]

39 minutes ago, cacheman said:

Of course, without ever meeting the branch president or any other members (we did meet one, once).... and being new converts, we relied solely on church produced materials and the scriptures.  So, the cultural aspects of the church were simply those of our family.  I guess there are pros and cons to that.

-cacheman

In my opinion I would find them mostly "pros".   I have always had a hard time with "Mormon" culture.  Just to make it clear, I am separating the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints from "mormons" 

I remember meeting my wife's huge family at a Sunday Dinner- and marveled at green jello with shredded carrots served on lettuce, like a salad.   I was not sure if I should save it for desert or eat it with the meal.   The kids seemed to avoid eating it at all.  Rather confusing. 

But hopefully you did not have a copy of "Mormon Doctrine", which it wasn't.