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Whodathunkit - Little Old Provo


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15 minutes ago, Traela said:

I have read many statements from truck drivers saying that if a road is blocked by protesters, they will not stop.  They remember Reginald Denny all too well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Reginald_Denny

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2 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

Let's just want until a person steps up into the face of your spouse or family members....or even yourself. Let's just look at your response. Keep telling yourself, "It is just a harmless action". 

What? Someone yelling? I think it has happened to all of us at some point. I've never once seen someone respond with a fist to the face like that.

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35 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

What? Someone yelling? I think it has happened to all of us at some point. I've never once seen someone respond with a fist to the face like that.

Most of us never experience it with someone doing it within an inch or two of our face. That’s asking to get punched. 

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1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

What? Someone yelling? I think it has happened to all of us at some point. I've never once seen someone respond with a fist to the face like that.

I have never in my life had anyone put their face two inches from my own, screaming at me. Not a single time. Where exactly do you live where this is a common experience?  Or might you be desperate to keep the false narrative up that it is all about those racist, dirty pigs that violate honest, kind, peaceful individuals?

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Never underestimate the power of a mob to do unspeakable things on the spur of the moment. Missouri  mobs come to mind . 

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7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Most of us never experience it with someone doing it within an inch or two of our face. That’s asking to get punched. 

Punching someone, even if they are up in your face yelling, is assault.

6 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

I have never in my life had anyone put their face two inches from my own, screaming at me. Not a single time. Where exactly do you live where this is a common experience?  Or might you be desperate to keep the false narrative up that it is all about those racist, dirty pigs that violate honest, kind, peaceful individuals?

That's a lot of words to put in my mouth.

My first experience with it was on my mission in South Africa. We got spit on a few times, bottles thrown at us another. One time a man was up in my face yelling so close I could feel his whiskers. Pretty sure it wouldn't have ended well for me had I hauled off and punched him in the face. 

I'm not going to argue with you about whether it is right to punch someone. Have a good day.

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Posted (edited)
7 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Most of us never experience it with someone doing it within an inch or two of our face. That’s asking to get punched. 

In certain cultures, not others...which means people have choice on whether or not to respond that way.

Edited by Calm
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In law one can be assaulted without being touched. The perception of imminent use of force is enough.Battery is actual hitting or just touching. Hence a person screaming at you a few inches away and likely spitting on you can be regarded as assault. 

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53 minutes ago, Calm said:

In certain cultures, not others...which means people have choice on whether or not to respond that way.

They have a choice, but it’s asking a lot of someone, especially a stranger, not to react. Aside from being an extreme expression of hostility and contempt, it is foolhardy to literally get in someone’s face like that. People have a choice not to behave like that. 

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1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

Punching someone, even if they are up in your face yelling, is assault.

As my teenage son said to me on one occasion, thank you, Captain Obvious. 

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Posted (edited)

More information is coming to light about the man accused in Monday’s shooting. It seems Salt Lake PD  have had their eye on him for a while and thus were of great help to Provo PD in tracking him down. 
 

Meanwhile, a second man has been arrested, for allegedly chasing after the victim’s vehicle with a gun while the victim was fleeing after having been shot. 
 

The woman who was arrested drove the car in which Taggart left the scene. Her license plate number helped police track the two of them down. 
 

Great police work all around — after the fact. And I’m certain the unusually visible police presence kept things in check on Wednesday, either intimidating the bad apples or keeping them away. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/kutv.com/amp/news/local/police-man-arrested-for-shooting-at-provo-protest-is-known-instigator

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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30 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Meanwhile, a second man has been arrested, for allegedly chasing after the victim’s vehicle with a gun while the victim was fleeing after having been shot. 

oj7Gfkr.pngI'm assuming this second arrest is the guy seen pointing a gun at the SUV as it plows through the crowd and takes off. Makes me wonder where second amendment rights begin and end.
 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

They have a choice, but it’s asking a lot of someone, especially a stranger, not to react. Aside from being an extreme expression of hostility and contempt, it is foolhardy to literally get in someone’s face like that. People have a choice not to behave like that. 

Seriously, it is asking a lot not to punch?  I can see it is asking a lot not to push them away, but I think of it as very little to ask someone not to punch. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

it is foolhardy to literally get in someone’s face like that. People have a choice not to behave like that. 

I hereby bequeath my title of Captain Obvious to Scott Lloyd

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

Seriously, it is asking a lot not to punch?  I can see it is asking a lot not to push them away, but I think of it as very little to ask someone not to punch. 

I said it’s asking a lot not to react. Isn’t pushing the person away reacting? These days even that can be considered assault. 

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1 hour ago, Rajah Manchou said:

I hereby bequeath my title of Captain Obvious to Scott Lloyd

You’re a bit late. Already conferred upon me by my teenage son. 

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31 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I said it’s asking a lot not to react. Isn’t pushing the person away reacting? These days even that can be considered assault. 

I assumed you meant punching because you said “that’s asking to get punched” earlier.  My mistake.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Calm said:

I assumed you meant punching because you said “that’s asking to get punched” earlier.  My mistake.

It IS asking to get punched, human nature being what it is. I didn’t say I’d condone it. I was talking about likelihood given the provocation. 

If my wife insists I close the garage door while I’m mowing the lawn and tells me that leaving it up is asking to have our bikes stolen, she is not saying she would condone it if it happened. She’s commenting on the foolishness of leaving the door open. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, sunstoned said:

One thing for sure is that it is best to stay in your vehicle if at all possible.

And to get away from the scene, bearing in mind that the longer you remain in place, the stronger the likelihood you will be injured or killed eventually.  
 

I’m reminded of something I heard once to the effect that if someone is holding you at gunpoint with the intent to kidnap you, it is better to flee at that moment and risk getting shot than it is to comply. The reasoning is that it is likelier the person will shoot and miss or lose his nerve and not shoot at all than it is that you will survive if you go with him. 
 

The victim in Monday’s shooting was entirely justified in getting out of there as soon as possible and not allowing the mob to detain him. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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4 hours ago, Rajah Manchou said:

oj7Gfkr.pngI'm assuming this second arrest is the guy seen pointing a gun at the SUV as it plows through the crowd and takes off. Makes me wonder where second amendment rights begin and end.
 

If I’m the prosecutor, I have that photo blown up to poster size and displayed in the courtroom in full view of the jury throughout my examination. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It IS asking to get punched, human nature being what it is. I didn’t say I’d condone it.

I didn’t say you condoned it. I find it very strange you think punching is a natural response to someone yelling at you rather than pushing them away to the point that if someone does yell in your face, they should expect to be punched. I have seen and experienced some yelling in one’s face over the years and not once did anyone punch out another.  
 

I also think saying someone should expect it is normalizing punching as response and therefore justifying it. (‘They were asking for it’)
 
My response to someone screaming at me is to wonder why, especially if it was desperation at feeling they weren’t being listened to instead of anger or a desire to dominate,  and try to do something about it and if I can’t, to leave and if I can’t leave, often will join in the fun.  After all the person who screams loudest wins, don’t they and I have a good set of lungs. (Yeah, I would always wonder even while doing it why as I knew screaming would never convince them,  it still felt like if only I could make them really hear me I could stop the pain...they probably felt the same way)  However, those days are over I am guessing as the persons that happened with are no longer in my life.

Of course most of those I observed (as opposed to participating in) were men yelling at women and most women know better than to try and punch a guy knowing any harm they might do will be much less than any return punch. 

Edited by Calm
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55 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

If I’m the prosecutor, I have that photo blown up to poster size and displayed in the courtroom in full view of the jury throughout my examination. 

To prove there was an armed citizen at the protests exercising his second amendment right to defend himself?

His puny little pistol has nothing on these guys.
vHd8Fty.jpg

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Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, Rajah Manchou said:

To prove there was an armed citizen at the protests exercising his second amendment right to defend himself?

Defend himself from what? An injured elderly motorist fleeing in his vehicle after being shot at close range because he objected to being unlawfully detained by an angry and menacing mob? 
 

By the way, I don’t see any indication in the photo of the motorist “plow[ing] through the crowd” as you inaccurately characterized it. More like the hapless victim has made his escape and is heading down the street while this second gunman tries to get one more round off. 
 

Like I say, it could make a powerful visual aid if the case gets to trial. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Calm said:

I didn’t say you condoned it. I find it very strange you think punching is a natural response to someone yelling at you rather than pushing them away to the point that if someone does yell in your face, they should expect to be punched. I have seen and experienced some yelling in one’s face over the years and not once did anyone punch out another.  
 

I also think saying someone should expect it is normalizing punching as response and therefore justifying it. (‘They were asking for it’)
 
My response to someone screaming at me is to wonder why, especially if it was desperation at feeling they weren’t being listened to instead of anger or a desire to dominate,  and try to do something about it and if I can’t, to leave and if I can’t leave, often will join in the fun.  After all the person who screams loudest wins, don’t they and I have a good set of lungs. (Yeah, I would always wonder even while doing it why as I knew screaming would never convince them,  it still felt like if only I could make them really hear me I could stop the pain...they probably felt the same way)  However, those days are over I am guessing as the persons that happened with are no longer in my life.

Of course most of those I observed (as opposed to participating in) were men yelling at women and most women know better than to try and punch a guy knowing any harm they might do will be much less than any return punch. 

Not just yelling at you but yelling an inch away from your face. It’s the difference between being annoying and being menacing. 
 

And there’s not a wide gulf between condoning something and “normalizing” it. I don’t cop to either one. 

Edited by Scott Lloyd
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