Jump to content

The Savior Ministered to His Other Sheep


Recommended Posts

This is from Lesson 21 (Religion 250 manual).

https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/bc/content/ldsorg/manual/institute/jesus-christ-and-the-everlasting-gospel-teacher-manual_eng-new.pdf

(3 Nephi 16:1–3 and Mosiah 27:30. Why is it important to know that the Savior 
would visit His "sheep" in other nations? (Clarify that although the Savior may 
have visited other people or nations in person, most often the Savior manifests 
Himself through the ministration of the Holy Ghost.

What other nations did Jesus visit after his resurrection besides what is mentioned
in the Book of Mormon and the Bible?.


Considering there were about 2,500 people in the multitude (see 3 Nephi 17:25), what 
does the Savior's invitation to each person to feel the wounds in His side, hands, and 
feet teach us about His concern for each of us?

This question is not answered in the manual.   What concern do you believe Jesus felt
for doubting Thomas when he was invited to trust and shed his unbelief?

An earlier passage mentions something very peculiar.  3 Nephi 12:1 – "... therefore 
blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me 
and know that I am
".  I would disagree with that statement.  Being blessed after seeing
Him is not being blessed for faith.  Jesus, in the Bible, said we are blessed if we believe
without seeing (John 20:29).


3 Nephi 18:1–12 (administered the sacrament).

After reading that passage, I notice that it is quite different than the biblical account of the
memorial which occurred in the Last Supper.  This 'sacrament' is pictured as a full supper
instead.  Instead of it being shared between Christ and his 12 disciples, the Book of Mormon
expands it to many other people. The disciples partake first of the bread. And after they are
filled with the bread, they give it to the other people and they are filled.  Then the disciples
partake of the wine until they are filled and then they give it to the other people; where they
drink until they are filled. Jesus blesses the bread but does not bless the wine. 

Tony

  • Like 1
Link to post

I would imagine that HE ministered to many others, and that one day we will have those “teachings“ added to ours, or this is what we have been taught. One day the other tribes of Israel will bring forth these (or those” “words or records”, to be added to our own. It will be a time, I hope of great rejoicing. The only sad thing will be, those who have taken lightly, or outrightly rejected the records we have now, will do so again. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
7 hours ago, marineland said:

What other nations did Jesus visit after his resurrection besides what is mentioned
in the Book of Mormon and the Bible?.

Any guess at the other nations he visited would be pure speculation (Tibet?).  But Jesus did give us a list of places in those verses that we can rule out:

Quote

1 And verily, verily, I say unto you that I have other sheep, which are [1] not of this land, [2] neither of the land of Jerusalem, [3] neither in any parts of that land round about whither I have been to minister.
2 For they of whom I speak are they who have not as yet heard my voice; neither have I at any time manifested myself unto them.
3 But I have received a commandment of the Father that I shall go unto them, and that they shall hear my voice, and shall be numbered among my sheep, that there may be one fold and one shepherd; therefore I go to show myself unto them.   (3 Nephi 16:1–3)

So it's not in the place where he visited the people in the Americas, nor the land of Jerusalem (we already knew that), nor anywhere around Jerusalem where he visited.  That narrows things down a little bit, right?

Amos tells us the scope too:   "Behold, the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom [Israel], and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD.  For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth." (Amos 9:8-9)

7 hours ago, marineland said:

Considering there were about 2,500 people in the multitude (see 3 Nephi 17:25), what 
does the Savior's invitation to each person to feel the wounds in His side, hands, and 
feet teach us about His concern for each of us?

This question is not answered in the manual.   What concern do you believe Jesus felt
for doubting Thomas when he was invited to trust and shed his unbelief?

An earlier passage mentions something very peculiar.  3 Nephi 12:1 – "... therefore 
blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me 
and know that I am
".  I would disagree with that statement.  Being blessed after seeing
Him is not being blessed for faith.  Jesus, in the Bible, said we are blessed if we believe
without seeing (John 20:29).

The question the manual is asking, about the Savior's invitation to each person to feel the wounds in His side, hand, and feet, has to do with the Savior's love for those in attendance and his desire that they should all participate as witnesses of the reality of his resurrection.  I have thought about this passage before too.  If I had been in that group and had passed up the opportunity to physically feel his wounds simply because I was afraid of being thought of as a doubting Thomas, I would be kicking myself for that decision the rest of my life.  Why?  Because there is power in being able to testify that you had actually felt his wounds, you would be able to confirm his physicality and that it wasn't merely a vision, and that is a powerful witness.  And that's what Jesus was giving those people the opportunity to do.

The concern that Jesus had about Thomas was that Thomas was "faithless" (John 20:27), he didn't fully believe in the words of the other apostles (his witnesses) when they testified of Jesus' resurrection.  Thomas didn't believe their words and he had to see in order to believe:

"The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he [Thomas] said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe."  (John 20:25)

And this is also addressed by the context of 3 Nephi 12, and I think this addresses your disagreement:

"...therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.  And again, more blessed are they who shall believe in your words because that ye shall testify that ye have seen me, and that ye know that I am. Yea, blessed are they who shall believe in your words, and come down into the depths of humility and be baptized, for they shall be visited with fire and with the Holy Ghost, and shall receive a remission of their sins."   (3 Nephi 12:1–2)

Edited by InCognitus
  • Like 1
Link to post
8 hours ago, marineland said:

(3 Nephi 16:1–3 and Mosiah 27:30. Why is it important to know that the Savior 
would visit His "sheep" in other nations? (Clarify that although the Savior may 
have visited other people or nations in person, most often the Savior manifests 
Himself through the ministration of the Holy Ghost.

What other nations did Jesus visit after his resurrection besides what is mentioned
in the Book of Mormon and the Bible?.

3 Nephi 17:4

Book of Mormon

4 But now I go unto the Father, and also to show myself unto the lost tribes of Israel, for they are not lost unto the Father, for he knoweth whither he hath taken them.

  • Like 1
Link to post
On 6/20/2020 at 10:51 AM, marineland said:

Considering there were about 2,500 people in the multitude (see 3 Nephi 17:25), what 
does the Savior's invitation to each person to feel the wounds in His side, hands, and 
feet teach us about His concern for each of us?

This question is not answered in the manual.   What concern do you believe Jesus felt
for doubting Thomas when he was invited to trust and shed his unbelief?

I think Thomas got a bad rap when he got the tag of a doubter. He did exactly what all the others did....he believed after he saw and felt.

In “Beyond Belief,” Elaine Pagels proposes that John may have pegged him as a doubter in order to lessen his influence as a leader in the Church.

https://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Belief-Secret-Gospel-Thomas/dp/0375703160

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to post
On 6/20/2020 at 1:51 PM, marineland said:

What other nations did Jesus visit after his resurrection besides what is mentioned
in the Book of Mormon and the Bible?.

What concern do you believe Jesus felt
for doubting Thomas when he was invited to trust and shed his unbelief?

An earlier passage mentions something very peculiar.  3 Nephi 12:1 – "... therefore 
blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me 
and know that I am
".  I would disagree with that statement.  Being blessed after seeing
Him is not being blessed for faith.  Jesus, in the Bible, said we are blessed if we believe
without seeing (John 20:29).


3 Nephi 18:1–12 (administered the sacrament).

We cannot name nations left unnamed in the Book or Mormon and the Bible, but there is reference to other groups that were led away and their records which include His personal, post-resurrection ministry to them.

Thomas, a disciple of the mortal Christ who knew Him very personally, was in a very different circumstance than the Nephites He visited after His resurrection. So He would relate to and communicate with them differently than Thomas. The operative phrase is, "and be baptized". It is possible to not believe in someone (including God), where it counts, after we have seen them. We are blessed for faith and also for doing (as in getting baptized) as an expression of faith. The two must be inseparable/integrated if they are to draw fully upon the Lord's grace.

The particulars of the administration of the sacrament are more fully described in Moroni 3 and 4. It can be of large and associated with a larger meal (as indicated in 1 Corinthians 11 and the original performance) or small consumption (as is customary today). Taking place a year after the Lord's crucifixion, the 3 Nephi 18 supper may well have coincided with a Nephite celebration of Passover. Whoever wrote/abridged 2 Nephi 18 simply left out the blessing of the wine (it was not a "manual," that was reserved for Moroni 3 and 4).

Link to post
On 6/21/2020 at 7:57 PM, Bernard Gui said:

I think Thomas got a bad rap when he got the tag of a doubter. He did exactly what all the others did....he believed after he saw and felt.

Where do you see that Thomas and the others felt Jesus?

Link to post
On 6/27/2020 at 11:31 AM, marineland said:

Where do you see that Thomas and the others felt Jesus?

Luke 24

Quote

36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.

John 20

Quote

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.

3 Nephi 11

Quote

13 And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto them saying:
14 Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Israel, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world.
15 And it came to pass that the multitude went forth, and thrust their hands into his side, and did feel the prints of the nails in his hands and in his feet; and this they did do, going forth one by one until they had all gone forth, and did see with their eyes and did feel with their hands, and did know of a surety and did bear record, that it was he, of whom it was written by the prophets, that should come.
16 And when they had all gone forth and had witnessed for themselves, they did cry out with one accord, saying:
17 Hosanna! Blessed be the name of the Most High God! And they did fall down at the feet of Jesus, and did worship him.

They all saw and felt and believed. So did Thomas. I don’t believe he deserves the label of a Doubter.

Edited by Bernard Gui
Link to post
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By marineland
      This is from Lesson 22 (Religion 250 manual).
      "Our entire case as members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints rests on the 
      validity of this glorious First Vision. ... Nothing on which we base our doctrine, nothing 
      we teach, nothing we live by is of greater importance than this initial declaration. I submit 
      that if Joseph Smith talked with God the Father and His Beloved Son, then all else of which 
      he spoke is true".
      Examining the logic of this statement, if Joseph Smith's teaching of God not being from 
      everlasting to everlasting and that he was a man who became a God is false, would this 
      mean the First Vision never really happened?
      "To the youth listening today or reading these words in the days ahead, I give a specific 
      challenge: Gain a personal witness of the Prophet Joseph Smith. … Read the testimony of 
      the Prophet Joseph Smith in the Pearl of Great Price. … This is Joseph's own testimony of 
      what actually occurred".
      Do church leaders ever invite you to gain a personal witness of the Apostles Peter or Paul?
      Tony
       
    • By marineland
      This is from Lesson 21 (Religion 250 manual).
      The chapter mentions the priesthood keys several times.
      89 – During His three-year mortal ministry, Jesus Christ conferred priesthood keys on 
      His Twelve Apostles. With these keys, the Church of Jesus Christ was “built upon the 
      foundation of the apostles and prophets
      90 – "'Priesthood keys are the authority God has given to priesthood [holders] to direct, 
      control, and govern the use of His priesthood on earth’ [Handbook 2: Administering the 
      Church [2010], 2.1.1]. Every act or ordinance performed in the Church is done under the 
      direct or indirect authorization of one holding the keys for that function. 
      Why didn't Jesus confer the keys of binding and loosing on the twelve Nephite disciples?
×
×
  • Create New...