Jump to content

What Will Those Who Qualify Only for the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms do for Eternity?


Recommended Posts

On 6/4/2020 at 11:05 AM, Ratbag said:

There is no progression between kingdoms.

Just like the angels in Heaven, those in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms will live separately and alone.  Your bodies will not be capable of procreation and there will not be romantic relationships.  However, there will be opportunities for learning and growth within the limits that are set.  There will be a lot of company in telestial kingdom.  According to the prominent LDS Hebrew scholar and authority on Isaiah, Avraham Gileadi, Isaiah tells us that 90% of the population will enter the telestial kingdom, 9% the terrestrial kingdom, and only 1% will make the celestial kingdom. 

 

Here I am resurrecting/resuscitating an old thread, but just saw this as I was reviewing the topic.

Ratbag, I'm wondering where Gileadi said this, and how he came up with the statistics. Didn't think that Isaiah dealt much with statistical outcomes...

I'd also kind of argue with these stats. Learning about the gospel in the spirit world, 90% will reject it?  That makes utterly no sense.

  • Like 2
Link to post
On 6/4/2020 at 4:05 AM, Ratbag said:

There is no progression between kingdoms.

Just like the angels in Heaven, those in the terrestrial and telestial kingdoms will live separately and alone.  Your bodies will not be capable of procreation and there will not be romantic relationships.  However, there will be opportunities for learning and growth within the limits that are set.  There will be a lot of company in telestial kingdom.  According to the prominent LDS Hebrew scholar and authority on Isaiah, Avraham Gileadi, Isaiah tells us that 90% of the population will enter the telestial kingdom, 9% the terrestrial kingdom, and only 1% will make the celestial kingdom. 

 

There is a big difference between "progression between kingdoms" and "progression of kingdoms".
The mistake is assuming any of the kingdoms are a fixed location/developmental level.

Scripture is clear that those who don't make the Celestial Kingdom cannot go where God and Christ are worlds without end (D&C 76:112)
However that doesn't mean they can receive future exaltation when the kingdom in which they dwell eventually progresses to a Celestial level.  As long as they are steadily becoming more perfect they unavoidably will be become Celestial material one day. 

However the current Celestial Kingdom will likely have moved on to bigger and better things (D&C 130:9-10).

Progression is eternal for everyone.  When this world ends some will start the next life at an advantage with their "College degrees" and others will be sent back to "Kindergarten" but the work of progression never stops and eventually God's work and glory will not be thwarted.

  • Like 2
Link to post
On 5/9/2020 at 10:11 AM, teddyaware said:

I hope my Evangelical friends enjoy themselves believing that their God of perfect mercy and justice is going to consign the majority of the human race, whom he supposedly loves with a perfect infinite and eternal love, to an endless hell of unimaginable suffering, anguish and unremitting pain, because, in spite of his much vaunted intelligence, wisdom, love and perfection in all things,  he somehow couldn’t figure out a better and more compassionate way to design a plan of salvation. What Latter-Day Saint in their right mind would want to abandon the perfectly wise, loving and compassionate plan of salvation presented in their scriptures, and be happy to replace it  with a plan of salvation of a supposedly loving God who is inexplicably able to indifferently stand aloof while his beloved children are exposed to never ending torture of maximum degree? What wise and loving purpose does this cruelty and madness serve? You’d think that after a million years a being of true love would say, “IT’S ENOUGH!” 

So true, sounds like a scare tactic of the EV's I believe, that was inherited from day one. 

 

Link to post

JLHProf, I like your concept.

Elder JFS Jr. and his son in law, Bruce McConkie, imo, got it wrong while Hartman Rector Jr., a seventy, got it right on eternal progression after this life.  None of us is going to be perfect when entering the Celestial Kingdom. If that is the case, then progression does not end but is indeed eternal in nature.  If so, then theoretically it seems to me one can progress from one kingdom to another.

 

Link to post
On 5/10/2020 at 5:33 AM, teddyaware said:

So are you denying that the glory of the post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is so grand, wonderful and glorious that understanding what it’s like there is beyond the ability of mortal human beings to comprehend?

That glory granted the inhabitants of the lowest kingdom of glory is called telestial glory. In the infinite mercy of a beneficent Father it surpasses all mortal understanding. (Bruce R McConkie)

How in the celestial's name is anyone denying the grandness of the Telestial Kingdom?

Why, oh why, do good people here put words or implications in other posters' words that are not there?

Edited by JamesBYoung
  • Like 1
Link to post

There is a snake in the grass with this eternal progression stuff. Followed to its conclusion then Satan will progress also and eventually come around to accept Christ as his redeemer . Satan is the father of all lies. Is this one of the lies? Is he the exception that proves the rule? 

 

Does this thread need to be moved to General??? 

Edited by strappinglad
  • Like 1
Link to post
18 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

How in the celestial's name is anyone denying the grandness of the Telestial Kingdom?

Why, oh why, do good people here put words or implications in other posters' words that are not there?

My comment was made in response to the following comment made by Maidservant: “As for the telestial kingdom, whatever you are doing now, since we're in it right now.“ It appears Maidservant believes life in the redeemed and glorified post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is going to be much the same as life on this fallen, unredeemed pre-resurrection telestial world. My point is I don’t believe the kind of life we life we live on this fallen world is going to be much the same as life in the Telestial Kingdom of glory, a realm the scriptures describe as being beyond all mortal understanding.

89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial which surpasses all understanding; (D&C 76)

I’ve known several members of the Church who mistakenly believe that just because this fallen planet is called a telestial world that it must be more or less one and the same with the Father’s mansion of heavenly glory called the Telestial Kingdom. They are not at all one and the same.

P.S. It’s interesting that Maidservant jokingly discounted the quote I provided from Bruce R McConkie (apparently because she doesn’t think he’s a reliable source)) in which he asserts that the Telestial Kingdom of glory is beyond all understanding, apparently not realizing McConkie was quoting D&C 76.

Edited by teddyaware
Link to post
57 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

It appears Maidservant believes life in the redeemed and glorified post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is going to be much the same as life on this fallen, unredeemed pre-resurrection telestial world. My point is I don’t believe the kind of life we life we live on this fallen world is going to be much the same as life in the Telestial Kingdom of glory, a realm the scriptures describe as being beyond all mortal understanding.

I don’t think you are accurately interpreting/representing her thought. 

Maidservant:

Quote

Actually this planet is composed of beings in several states, including all three "kingdoms". And really there aren't just three, but "many mansions". The learning/meme device of the three kingdoms is just a primer to help us understand our choices and the consequences they have on our bodies and experiences. Each person carries their "kingdom" with them.

 

  • Like 1
Link to post
6 hours ago, teddyaware said:

My comment was made in response to the following comment made by Maidservant: “As for the telestial kingdom, whatever you are doing now, since we're in it right now.“ It appears Maidservant believes life in the redeemed and glorified post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is going to be much the same as life on this fallen, unredeemed pre-resurrection telestial world. My point is I don’t believe the kind of life we life we live on this fallen world is going to be much the same as life in the Telestial Kingdom of glory, a realm the scriptures describe as being beyond all mortal understanding.

89 And thus we saw, in the heavenly vision, the glory of the telestial which surpasses all understanding; (D&C 76)

I’ve known several members of the Church who mistakenly believe that just because this fallen planet is called a telestial world that it must be more or less one and the same with the Father’s mansion of heavenly glory called the Telestial Kingdom. They are not at all one and the same.

P.S. It’s interesting that Maidservant jokingly discounted the quote I provided from Bruce R McConkie (apparently because she doesn’t think he’s a reliable source)) in which he asserts that the Telestial Kingdom of glory is beyond all understanding, apparently not realizing McConkie was quoting D&C 76.

Thank you for explaining it more fairly if not very clearly, teddyaware.  Calm's comment above is to the point.

 

Edited by JamesBYoung
  • Like 1
Link to post
On 5/9/2020 at 12:40 PM, Maidservant said:

What are they going to be doing?

Living.

As for the telestial kingdom, whatever you are doing now, since we're in it right now.

Actually this planet is composed of beings in several states, including all three "kingdoms". And really there aren't just three, but "many mansions". The learning/meme device of the three kingdoms is just a primer to help us understand our choices and the consequences they have on our bodies and experiences. Each person carries their "kingdom" with them.

I personally identify that I am already in the celestial kingdom. Not by any perfection or merit of mine, of course, or that I am at the completion of any potential of myself as a being, but simply because there is no place I'd rather be than the here and now. I'm not sure what prize I think I'm going to be winning at another place and time that would exceed the opportunity and my desire to be of service (although I am certainly weak at such) right where I'm at.  If there were any celestial kingdom that took me away from this adventure, service, delight of a world like this, I would say, "Could you just send me back?" So maybe I already did get sent back. Ergo, this IS my celestial kingdom because I don't want any other, except of course to keep becoming clean and kind and free and etc. I AM THAT I AM.

Wow! I love this Maidservant. I hope many don't long or wish for the Second Coming too much. And not enjoy life on earth as you've shown you are! 

My niece who is a Medium described heaven similar to what you said here, including the many mansions. 

Link to post
On 8/19/2020 at 5:59 AM, teddyaware said:

Maidservant believes life in the redeemed and glorified post-resurrection Telestial Kingdom is going to be much the same as life on this fallen, unredeemed pre-resurrection telestial world . . . I’ve known several members of the Church who mistakenly believe that just because this fallen planet is called a telestial world that it must be more or less one and the same with the Father’s mansion of heavenly glory called the Telestial Kingdom. They are not at all one and the same.

It's true. (Although I would never use the word 'believe'. It's simply what I currently understand.) That is BECAUSE I came from thinking or accepting or taking for granted (when I was much younger) that there was a difference; and then realizing from studying and pondering various sources that they were not different. That this glorious world we now inhabit is the shape of what is termed telestial, and that it is crucial to know that (in order to understand the rest of the scriptures, plan, reality, etc). Not least, this earth is a/the place that 'the Holy Ghost visits'.

I am aware that this world is also hell and also heaven (celestial). I think less about 'going' someplace afterlife. I think in terms of the condition of my body and self (because the telestial, terrestrial, and celestial are actually descriptions of the condition of the body i.e. the resurrection). That's why I say we carry our kingdom with us.

Joseph Smith taught that the celestial kingdom would be created on this earth in real time. That means that everyone who lives here will pass through the progressions individually and collectively that allow us to do that. (In the temple we pass through all the kingdoms on our way to the culmination.) It will not be handed to us. We will create it upon the principles which a celestiality is created. Those progressions may be termed telestial, terrestrial. Loosely, one may think of telestial as being a good person without the church; terrestial as being a good person with the church namely priesthood ordinances; celestial as beyond even that. ** not that others without our church can't be in high condition; just using these descriptions as a basic template.

But I'm fine with your understanding as well. I absolutely look forward to an endless increase of my cleanness and my joy, in time and eternity. So in that sense, surely there is more to come that surpasses my current understanding at this particular mote in time.

On 8/19/2020 at 5:59 AM, teddyaware said:

P.S. It’s interesting that Maidservant jokingly discounted the quote I provided from Bruce R McConkie (apparently because she doesn’t think he’s a reliable source)) in which he asserts that the Telestial Kingdom of glory is beyond all understanding, apparently not realizing McConkie was quoting D&C 76.

Not my best moment. I try not to joke because I never can pull it off without hurting someone. So I apologize. I love Elder McConkie as a person and a witness. But, yes, you can count me in the camp that is glad we have moved beyond his and others' similar viewpoints of the time.

I understand D&C 76 as well as anyone could. It contains a key(s) that undergirds my own viewpoint. I trust you with your understanding of the chapter.

16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Wow! I love this Maidservant. I hope many don't long or wish for the Second Coming too much. And not enjoy life on earth as you've shown you are! 

My niece who is a Medium described heaven similar to what you said here, including the many mansions. 

Thanks for the encouragement, Tacenda.

For me, there is only one life. It is the life I am living in eternity. I am that person. I was never not that person. I will continue to be this person--before during and after earth.

My entrance into this world is not life, but rather death or the tomb (tomb/womb). It is a media presentation. This earth passage IS the ordinance (baptism, endowment, anointing) being performed in my Father's temple. This earth passage is the means by which I am being robed with the Priesthood and many other treasures that would take some time to speak of, so I will not right now. (And when I say 'I', I mean all of us.) This ordinance, this earth experience, is my birthright as a daughter of God. It is the crown I am being crowned with (crown of thorns, even).

 

Sorry for late replies! Didn't know my name was being taken! :D:D

  • Like 1
Link to post
On 8/19/2020 at 4:22 PM, let’s roll said:

At a high level, the Telestial Kingdom is sitting on a beach...the Celestial Kingdom is an eternity of work, difficult work, God’s work.

When God said, "Let there be light", how do you think that happened?  A construction crew from the Telestial Kingdom union got to work on it right away.  

  • Like 1
Link to post

Before my faith changed the only draw for me for the CK was that was the only place God would be. Now I'm content for the Saviour who I hear will visit in the Terrestial world. Actually, and honestly, if I believed in the CK I probably would still believe in the church. Therefore it's easy for me to not believe in the CK. Because as much as this church believes it keeps families together for eternity, it really doesn't. It separates them when they aren't living up to the standards the church makes. It separates more than the other faiths out there that believe everyone will be together. And don't tell me that the church doesn't believe in hell and damnation. Just heard a scripture in the BoM that shows a very angry God who would damn people to hell. I'll try to find it. I'm tired of having to believe the words of men, who more often than not are wrong. Throughout the Bible there are false scriptures, and those harm so many of us. Kind of scary to know a Christian if they believe every word in the Bible. Really scary. 

And upon some recent information, I'd forgotten that the BoM hold the same scriptures as the Bible, about hell, fire and damnation:

Jacob 6:10

Mosiah 2:38-39

Edited by Tacenda
Link to post
16 hours ago, Tacenda said:

Before my faith changed the only draw for me for the CK was that was the only place God would be. Now I'm content for the Saviour who I hear will visit in the Terrestial world. Actually, and honestly, if I believed in the CK I probably would still believe in the church. Therefore it's easy for me to not believe in the CK. Because as much as this church believes it keeps families together for eternity, it really doesn't. It separates them when they aren't living up to the standards the church makes. It separates more than the other faiths out there that believe everyone will be together. And don't tell me that the church doesn't believe in hell and damnation. Just heard a scripture in the BoM that shows a very angry God who would damn people to hell. I'll try to find it. I'm tired of having to believe the words of men, who more often than not are wrong. Throughout the Bible there are false scriptures, and those harm so many of us. Kind of scary to know a Christian if they believe every word in the Bible. Really scary. 

And upon some recent information, I'd forgotten that the BoM hold the same scriptures as the Bible, about hell, fire and damnation:

Jacob 6:10

Mosiah 2:38-39

I'm not sure that this will help your perspective on this or not, but the Book of Mormon explains that this "hell" isn't a punishment that God inflicts upon the disobedient, but it is caused by the consciousness of guilt of the individual when they are brought to stand before God.  In Mormon 9:1–5 it says that unbelievers would be far more miserable dwelling in the presence of God than they would by dwelling with people of their own kind:

Quote

1 And now, I speak also concerning those who do not believe in Christ.
2 Behold, will ye believe in the day of your visitation—behold, when the Lord shall come, yea, even that great day when the earth shall be rolled together as a scroll, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, yea, in that great day when ye shall be brought to stand before the Lamb of God—then will ye say that there is no God?
3 Then will ye longer deny the Christ, or can ye behold the Lamb of God? Do ye suppose that ye shall dwell with him under a consciousness of your guilt? Do ye suppose that ye could be happy to dwell with that holy Being, when your souls are racked with a consciousness of guilt that ye have ever abused his laws?
4 Behold, I say unto you that ye would be more miserable to dwell with a holy and just God, under a consciousness of your filthiness before him, than ye would to dwell with the damned souls in hell.
5 For behold, when ye shall be brought to see your nakedness before God, and also the glory of God, and the holiness of Jesus Christ, it will kindle a flame of unquenchable fire upon you.

(Mormon 9:1–5)

So God will let people will dwell in the place where they are the most comfortable.  And that doesn't sound like an angry and unloving God to me.

  • Like 4
Link to post
On 5/7/2020 at 8:17 PM, Kafiristan said:

All,

Please help me out.  I've been troubled for many years by the question of the status of those who qualify only for the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms.  Will these people be allowed to grow, repent, progress, and eventually move up to the Celestial Kingdom, or will they remain in their assigned kingdom for eternity?  If progressing from kingdom to kingdom is not possible, then, what will those who inherit the Telestial and Terrestrial Kingdoms do for all eternity? 

I am sure those in the Telestial play lots of sports.  I can't foresee a lot of sports in the Celestial Kingdom.  All powerful and knowing beings playing sports?  How would they compete?  Everyone knows the play before it even starts.

Link to post
On 8/21/2020 at 9:01 AM, Tacenda said:

Before my faith changed the only draw for me for the CK was that was the only place God would be. Now I'm content for the Saviour who I hear will visit in the Terrestial world. Actually, and honestly, if I believed in the CK I probably would still believe in the church. Therefore it's easy for me to not believe in the CK. Because as much as this church believes it keeps families together for eternity, it really doesn't. It separates them when they aren't living up to the standards the church makes. It separates more than the other faiths out there that believe everyone will be together. And don't tell me that the church doesn't believe in hell and damnation.

 

The church separates nobody.  The Church judges nobody.  Christ and the individual in question determines the destination of each individual.  Also lets not assume that if individuals are in different kingdoms that the family is separated.   Those in higher kingdoms can visit and dwell with those in lower ones.  It is no different than if I live in Utah (celestial Kingdom) visit some of my family in Oregon (Terrestrial Kingdom) and also visit some other family members in California (Telestial Kingdom).  We are still a family even if we are separated at times.

Edited by carbon dioxide
  • Like 1
Link to post
On 5/8/2020 at 9:46 AM, Kenngo1969 said:

I don't know.  What do you think they'll want to do?  If the same spirit that possesses a person in mortality possesses him in the hereafter, isn't that a clue?  Celestial will (want to) do as celestial is, terrestial will (want to) do as terrestrial is, and telestial will (want to) do as telestial is.  Brad Wilcox once wrote that we myopic mortals have it backward: We think that God is the stern taskmaster who will be telling us we can't stay in his presence when in reality, it is we who, because we don't feel comfortable in a celestial environment, will be saying "Get me out of here!" while God has been pleading with us the whole time we were in mortality to do the things that will make us celestial people.

If your response to that is, "Well, 99.9% of mortals never had a chance!", we're judged according to what we know.  The more we know, the harsher will be our judgment, and the less we know, the more lenient will be our judgment.

How do mental issues, life condition and the affects of all that come into play?  Is LDS Jesus fair about that or is he like the Jesus of Suburbia, judgemental and cruel?

Link to post
1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

I am sure those in the Telestial play lots of sports.  I can't foresee a lot of sports in the Celestial Kingdom.  All powerful and knowing beings playing sports?  How would they compete?  Everyone knows the play before it even starts.

Sorry for the diversion, but your post reminds me of a photo that was linked to one of the comments on Daniel McClellan's blog.  Take note of the list of those who "[LOVE] THE DEVIL", lower right corner:  "Sport's Nuts" [sic]. 

3993564693_2af89c90e0_c.jpg

The comment someone made in response to this photo was, "Wow. What I can’t figure out is why everything is in the possessive form on that banner, “Catholic’s, Mormon’s”. Does that just mean that anything belonging to us is going to hell?"  :)

The so called "Christian" idea of "hell" is so misunderstood and misrepresented, it's no wonder that people are giving up on that idea about "God".  The guy in this photo may not be representing mainstream Christian views, but his approach does much to damage the truth of the matter.

  • Like 2
Link to post
13 minutes ago, poptart said:

How do mental issues, life condition and the affects of all that come into play?  Is LDS Jesus fair about that....

Definitely fair in most members’ views. He only holds people accountable for what they are both capable of and have knowledge of the law about..and even there we have plenty of opportunities to repent. In the end, we are the ones who say no, not God to seeking him out. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
8 minutes ago, poptart said:

How do mental issues, life condition and the affects of all that come into play?  Is LDS Jesus fair about that or is he like the Jesus of Suburbia, judgemental and cruel?

I've never met the "Jesus of suburbia" of whom you speak.  I assure you, it is we mortals who are much more judgmental of each other than Christ is, than He ever will be.  And while our conceptions of Him may differ, He's still the same guy, so there's no such thing as "LDS Jesus."    He is uniquely equipped to be fair with us in terms of the burdens we have carried (and that He has helped us carry). 

In the afterlife, at the judgment, He might say, "Does anyone have anything to say about Kenngo1969's case before I pass judgment on him?"  Whereupon perhaps someone who doesn't have the best opinion of me might step forward, saying something like this: "Oooh, Jesus, do I have things you should know about Kenngo1969.  He treated his fellow beings horribly down on earth," thus launching into a diatribe about why he believes I should receive a harsh judgment.  Christ might listen patiently until the adverse witness is finished.  And then, he might stroke his chin thoughtfully and say, "Yes, I can understand why, given what you think you know about him, you might think he deserves such a harsh judgment."  And then, he might ask, "Do you happen to know anything about the burdens he was carrying?"  Upon receiving a negative reply, the Savior might say, "Well, as it happens, I do, because I helped him carry them.  Let me tell you about them ..."  See Alma 7:10-14 in the Book of Mormon.

I might also point you to 1 Samuel 16:7 in the Old Testament.  The Lord looks upon the heart, while we myopic mortals look on the outward appearance.

  • Like 1
Link to post
2 hours ago, carbon dioxide said:

The church separates nobody.  The Church judges nobody.  Christ and the individual in question determines the destination of each individual.  Also lets not assume that if individuals are in different kingdoms that the family is separated.   Those in higher kingdoms can visit and dwell with those in lower ones.  It is no different than if I live in Utah (celestial Kingdom) visit some of my family in Oregon (Terrestrial Kingdom) and also visit some other family members in California (Telestial Kingdom).  We are still a family even if we are separated at times.

How would you feel if your parents were separated, is that common to have married couples live in separate houses?

Link to post
38 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

How would you feel if your parents were separated, is that common to have married couples live in separate houses?

So in order to be together in the same place and development, do you think the person who is capable of more should give up to be with the one who wants less?

Think of it like my marriage, my husband loves to travel, especially on his motorcycle. Due to my limitations, I suffer greatly when traveling...the end result if we are never to be parted is my husband never travels, never experiences that joy. 
 

Is that merciful?

Edited by Calm
  • Like 1
Link to post
1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I've never met the "Jesus of suburbia" of whom you speak.  I assure you, it is we mortals who are much more judgmental of each other than Christ is, than He ever will be.  And while our conceptions of Him may differ, He's still the same guy, so there's no such thing as "LDS Jesus."    He is uniquely equipped to be fair with us in terms of the burdens we have carried (and that He has helped us carry). 

In the afterlife, at the judgment, He might say, "Does anyone have anything to say about Kenngo1969's case before I pass judgment on him?"  Whereupon perhaps someone who doesn't have the best opinion of me might step forward, saying something like this: "Oooh, Jesus, do I have things you should know about Kenngo1969.  He treated his fellow beings horribly down on earth," thus launching into a diatribe about why he believes I should receive a harsh judgment.  Christ might listen patiently until the adverse witness is finished.  And then, he might stroke his chin thoughtfully and say, "Yes, I can understand why, given what you think you know about him, you might think he deserves such a harsh judgment."  And then, he might ask, "Do you happen to know anything about the burdens he was carrying?"  Upon receiving a negative reply, the Savior might say, "Well, as it happens, I do, because I helped him carry them.  Let me tell you about them ..."  See Alma 7:10-14 in the Book of Mormon.

I might also point you to 1 Samuel 16:7 in the Old Testament.  The Lord looks upon the heart, while we myopic mortals look on the outward appearance.

I have as have plenty of the poor, misfortunate who've been stepped on by religious and non religious alike.  Jesus of Suburbia was coined by the band Green Day, it stuck.  Remember growing up seeing churches just pop up in suburbs were my well off friends lived, all about selfish entitlements, racism and the prosperity gospel.  Can argue back and forth all you like but there it is, big suprise why so many people are acting out now that they have the chance.  Karma is a thing or as you would probably say, reap what you sow. 

There's the cherry picking, was waiting for it.  Jesus is my friend!  This verse I picked myself said so!  I'm entitled and better than you! 

If you want to convince me, here's how you'd do it.  Have Satan there vying for your soul and have Christs mom come forward and vouch for you.  Sure, I'd believe in Jesus but his mom would seal the deal for me.  Imagine what she felt like, how irritated she gets at the stuff his son puts up with yet she still cares.  If Him and his Mom vouch for you?  Yeah then i'd believe you.  Bonus points if St. Peter, Paul and a few others appear.  You really get bonus points from me if the Lords Mom comes out to judge you dressed like this.

LR_20200302T1008-2305-CNS-ENGLAND-DOWRY-

Edited by poptart
Link to post
1 hour ago, Calm said:

Definitely fair in most members’ views. He only holds people accountable for what they are both capable of and have knowledge of the law about..and even there we have plenty of opportunities to repent. In the end, we are the ones who say no, not God to seeking him out. 

Now that's fair.  Especially nowadays it's sad how many times peoples own parents ruin their childrens lives and leave them broken, mentally ill people.  We're seeing the effects of that now, as a society we can't sweep the poor under the rug anymore, them and the angry.  Not saying what they do is right but when you consider how many states have few mental health services save those in a prison psyche ward plus little to no help for so many, well there it is.  Irritates me how some middle class, privileged suburbanite with his entitled kids thinks that his version of deity likes him more yet shrieks at the current events.  Hmm, it's like God's trying to tell them something and they're too entitled to see/hear it....

Lots of wicked people out there, lots of others who would repent and would love a second shot at life, sadly lots of churches no longer offer this.  Think besides Catholic Charities the only ones left are the Latter Day saints, even then lawsuits plus the mess society is in keeps chipping away at that.  I know there are mainline denominations/synods that won't bother with congregations for the homeless, poor or elderly simply because there's no money in it, makes me sick. 

Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By canard78
      Random question, but I was doing some study on the different stages in individual progress and looking into the origins and symbolic implications of the Telestial, Terrestrial, Celestial experience in both Temple worship and eternal kingdoms.
      So we have:
      1/ Celestial
      2/ Terrestrial
      3/ Telestial
      The first two have established meaning. The third seems like a made up word, it's not English. Is it?
    • By swfarnsworth
      Ever since I finally memorized that the Terrestrial is the moon glory and the Telestial is the star glory (I got them mixed up a lot as a kid), I've thought that the two names should be switched. Here's why:
      "Telestial" is an invented word to describe the unnamed degree in 1 Cor. 15 created from a combination of the names of the other two degrees, so it would make sense to have it be the name of the degree in between the Celestial and Terrestrial. In the JST, Joseph could have simply inserted the word "Telestial" in between references to the other two (making the stars correspond to Terrestrial and the moon to Telestial) rather than adding it as an appendage.
      Though the earth will become a Terrestrial sphere during the millennium, it is presently a Telestial sphere. The word Terrestrial comes from the Latin word for earth, so it would make sense for the earth to be called a Telestial sphere when it is in between its present earthly state and the Celestial state it will be in after the Millennium.

      I'm not suggesting that the names should actually be switched; rather, I'm asking if there is a particular reason (or reasons) I haven't thought of yet that the degrees have the names that they do.
      As a side note, I remember being in primary sharing time lesson with a Plan of Salvation flow-chart. Though I did often get the names mixed up, I could still remember that the order was sun, moon, stars. The primary presidency member teaching the lesson had the degrees stacked in this descending order: sun, stars, moon. At the end of the lesson, another member of the presidency quietly pointed out her mistake, which had been bothering me for the duration of the lesson. When she switched the star and the moon pictures (I can't remember if the names were in the right places or not), she said "I guess you learn something every day!". This boosted my "I'm a smart little kid" ego.
×
×
  • Create New...