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New Symbol to Identify the Church


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Do you recognize the difference between using a symbol and worshiping it?

No one is being deceived. The church isn’t saying that the symbol is a representation of what Christ actually looks like. The church is being upfront about it being a replication of The Christus, a st

I don’t concede that I said or implied, even obliquely, that you are “willing to commit all sorts of immoral acts if the circumstances justify it.” I’m mystified as to where THAT came from. And t

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4 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

This place is a cesspool.

Then why do you want to post here?

And if this is a cesspool to you, got to wonder how much exposure you get to places like Reddit.

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young.png

Not quite the size I want but I hope the new missionary tags aren't this size, giant🤣

Edited by Duncan
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7 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

This place is a cesspool.

And who is forcing you to stay?

What rational person would stay in a cesspool voluntarily?

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17 hours ago, Calm said:

I really hope not.  That starts feeling like vain repetitions of his name.  Let's not turn the Christ into a meme or bumper sticker.

That’s what I was getting at.

 

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23 hours ago, Calm said:

I really hope not.  That starts feeling like vain repetitions of his name.  Let's not turn the Christ into a meme or bumper sticker.

In fact use of the symbol without authorization (appropriating it as a social media avatar, for example)  might constitute copyright or trademark infringement, or, at the least, violate Church policies. 

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On 4/5/2020 at 4:26 PM, mfbukowski said:

You need permission to not eat or pray??

I just don't get it

Of course not! What I am trying to do is correlate President Nelson's invitation to non-Members to Chapter 25 on the blessings of fasting. Perhaps my a priori assumption that everything listed in Chapter 25 is just for members of the Church is incorrect. After all, I am pretty regularly reminded that for what I do to have validity, I must be a member. Isn't a non-member fasting in the eyes of the church the same as a non-member participating in sacrament? It might make the person feel good and not embarrassed, but it really doesn't have any meaning to Christ because it is not done via a prior ordinance performed by one with authority. Is not prior baptism in the church the key to the realization of blessings from any act performed in the LDS church? Isn't that why they won't let me tithe?

On the other hand, if I invited you to join into the blessings of a Mennonite fast, I would be doing so in the full realization that all the blessings of that act are as equally available to you as it would be to me or anyone else taking part with a true heart. There is no necessary antecedent act.

I said it earlier, from my perspective I thought this was the most important statement in the whole conference. Of course, I am keyed in to listen for anything that might signal a greater openness to the non-member in church participation. President Nelson's invitation to those "not of our faith" seems to have been a conscious deliberate act on his part. I am trying to figure out what it means in correlation to church doctrine. Maybe it means nothing. Maybe it was simply a nice polite invitation and nothing else. I can't ask him, so I am asking you all. Does that help you "get it?" As one of you said on another thread a few months ago, I am not interested in "play-acting." As I approach Friday this is very important to me. Very.

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21 minutes ago, Navidad said:

Maybe it means nothing. Maybe it was simply a nice polite invitation and nothing else.

The short answer is "yep". :) 

 It sounds like you took it as an attack. It was a polite invitation.

 Please relax and honor it as such and let the spirit speak to you.

 And what is chapter 25?

Edited by mfbukowski
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On 4/6/2020 at 11:18 AM, Bob Crockett said:

By the way, Harry Anderson objected to his work for the Church and eventually refused to produce his last commission(s).  He was a Seventh Day Adventist.  I am counsel for the SDAs and have heard this story.

 

23 hours ago, Bob Crockett said:

However, when Church leaders desired paintings of the Restoration and the Book of Mormon, Anderson refused the Latter-day Saint commission. “He was a very committed, true, and honorable Seventh Day Adventist,” said Jay Todd, former managing editor of the Ensign. “He had his own sense of commitment and declined to paint Book of Mormon and Restoration scenes. As long as the Church commissioned biblical work, something that he deeply believed in, he accepted the commissions and was willing to acquiesce to Church leaders on visual interpretation.”79 For example, when Anderson was counseled to paint angels with no wings, he complied but never missed an occasion to attempt to convert Church leaders to the correctness of his personal biblical interpretation. Artist Bill Whittaker remembers being amused at the doctrinal bantering Anderson enjoyed with Gordon B. Hinckley.80 Artist Walter Rane explains, “Anderson was not just doing work as a job. He had to believe in it.”81 When Anderson turned down Latter-day Saint Restoration commissions, Church leaders asked him for names of artists who could paint the desired scenes. Anderson suggested only one man: his neighbor Tom Lovell.

This does not support your first allegation.  Anderson never objected to the work he had actually done, or (as you implicitly suggested) to the idea of graphic portrayals of Jesus generally.  He merely declined to apply his talents to portraying “scriptural” stories that, from his faith perspective, were pure fantasy. 

By the way, Thorvaldsen was not Norwegian.  He was Danish.  

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3 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

The short answer is "yep". :) 

 It sounds like you took it as an attack. It was a polite invitation.

 Please relax and honor it as such and let the spirit speak to you.

 And what is chapter 25?

Chapter 25 "FASTING" of the Gospel Principles manual as found on the church website - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-principles/chapter-25-fasting?lang=eng

Deleted the rest. It served no purpose.
 

Edited by Navidad
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Is this just a coincidence, or is the church already showing a shift away from Moroni.  Of the 3 new temple renderings here, only one of them has the traditional Moroni statue. 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/4/7/21208938/tooele-valley-temple-washington-county-temple-moses-lake-temple-renderings-church-mormon-lds

I also saw someone post a meme online about Moroni dropping his trumpet during the SLC earthquake and shortly after losing his symbolic stature in the church.  :lol:  Should we expect more of this transition away from the Moroni symbol in future newly built temples and in other ways as well?  

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9 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Is this just a coincidence, or is the church already showing a shift away from Moroni.  Of the 3 new temple renderings here, only one of them has the traditional Moroni statue. 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/4/7/21208938/tooele-valley-temple-washington-county-temple-moses-lake-temple-renderings-church-mormon-lds

I also saw someone post a meme online about Moroni dropping his trumpet during the SLC earthquake and shortly after losing his symbolic stature in the church.  :lol:  Should we expect more of this transition away from the Moroni symbol in future newly built temples and in other ways as well?  

Good grief!

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10 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Is this just a coincidence, or is the church already showing a shift away from Moroni.  Of the 3 new temple renderings here, only one of them has the traditional Moroni statue. 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2020/4/7/21208938/tooele-valley-temple-washington-county-temple-moses-lake-temple-renderings-church-mormon-lds

I also saw someone post a meme online about Moroni dropping his trumpet during the SLC earthquake and shortly after losing his symbolic stature in the church.  :lol:  Should we expect more of this transition away from the Moroni symbol in future newly built temples and in other ways as well?  

A few years (2011) ago the Church gave the following information:

"Occasionally building codes, possible cultural misconceptions, or architectural designs preclude the use of an angel Moroni statue. The following eight temples do not have a statue: Cardston Alberta, Hamilton New Zealand, Laie Hawaii, Logan Utah, Manti Utah, Mesa Arizona, Oakland California, St. George Utah and Paris France."

There may be more since then because of these reasons.

 

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1 hour ago, mgy401 said:

 

By the way, Thorvaldsen was not Norwegian.  He was Danish.  

Details, details. 🤣 

Those Scandinavians all look and sound alike to me. 🤣 🤣 

Pardon. Having served my mission in Sweden and having had my son, grandfather and nephew serve there, and having descended from Swedes, I found this hilarious. 

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6 minutes ago, JAHS said:

A few years (2011) ago the Church gave the following information:

"Occasionally building codes, possible cultural misconceptions, or architectural designs preclude the use of an angel Moroni statue. The following eight temples do not have a statue: Cardston Alberta, Hamilton New Zealand, Laie Hawaii, Logan Utah, Manti Utah, Mesa Arizona, Oakland California, St. George Utah and Paris France."

There may be more since then because of these reasons.

 

Ogden and Provo were the first Utah temples to be built in the modern era. They were identical, and neither had a Moroni at first. Both were subsequently retrofitted with Moroni. Then, Ogden was replaced with a new design and construction. 

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20 minutes ago, JAHS said:

A few years (2011) ago the Church gave the following information:

"Occasionally building codes, possible cultural misconceptions, or architectural designs preclude the use of an angel Moroni statue. The following eight temples do not have a statue: Cardston Alberta, Hamilton New Zealand, Laie Hawaii, Logan Utah, Manti Utah, Mesa Arizona, Oakland California, St. George Utah and Paris France."

There may be more since then because of these reasons.

 

some of those temples would honestly look weird with a Statue on Top, they have no spire to put one on like Cardston, Mesa and Hawaii

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9 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Ogden and Provo were the first Utah temples to be built in the modern era. They were identical, and neither had a Moroni at first. Both were subsequently retrofitted with Moroni. Then, Ogden was replaced with a new design and construction. 

Yep. I was married in the original Ogden Temple. I was present for the dedicatory services of the Provo Temple while I was in the LTM as a missionary.

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I hereby submit my idea for a redesign of the cover of the church edition of the Book of Mormon...

image.thumb.png.2945593df82a812b2ef5069b1b144657.png

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1 hour ago, JAHS said:

A few years (2011) ago the Church gave the following information:

"Occasionally building codes, possible cultural misconceptions, or architectural designs preclude the use of an angel Moroni statue. The following eight temples do not have a statue: Cardston Alberta, Hamilton New Zealand, Laie Hawaii, Logan Utah, Manti Utah, Mesa Arizona, Oakland California, St. George Utah and Paris France."

There may be more since then because of these reasons.

 

So you think this is just a coincidence rather than a shift in direction?  Two of three new temples without Moroni?  

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57 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Ogden and Provo were the first Utah temples to be built in the modern era. They were identical, and neither had a Moroni at first. Both were subsequently retrofitted with Moroni. Then, Ogden was replaced with a new design and construction. 

Yes, good point.  It seems there was an emphasis on Moroni spires in the last 20-30 years, perhaps this recent change now shows a a shifting and future deemphasis.  I wonder if they may remove Moroni statues from some temples?  

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Pardon. Having served my mission in Sweden and having had my son, grandfather and nephew serve there, and having descended from Swedes, I found this hilarious. 

My son has a brand new sister in his district from Sweden (she arrived on March 10th, right when all the craziness hit, so she has been sequestered her whole mission so far). She was a divinity school student when she joined the Church, and has only been a member for two years. 

As for Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians being all the same, when my wife and I were coming back from the FAIR Conference in Frankfurt in 2009, there were two elderly couples talking in the Newark Airport. My wife asked what they were speaking, and I said it sounded like one of the Scandinavian languages. They looked open and approachable, so I asked one of the men if they were speaking Swedish or Norwegian (it was Norwegian). "Swedish, Norwegian, same thing, right?" I said. He smiled and said, "Sweden is our little brother." :) 

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29 minutes ago, hope_for_things said:

Yes, good point.  It seems there was an emphasis on Moroni spires in the last 20-30 years, perhaps this recent change now shows a a shifting and future deemphasis.  I wonder if they may remove Moroni statues from some temples?  

It seems like with some degree of regularity we hear about the newer fiberglass Moronis having to get replaced due to lightning damage (Oquirrh Mountain, Bountiful, Nauvoo, Indianapolis, Idaho Falls, and Washington DC have all had reports of damage to their angels in recent years).  Maybe the Church is starting to conclude that it just isn’t worth the maintenance hassle?

Edited by mgy401
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24 minutes ago, rongo said:

My son has a brand new sister in his district from Sweden (she arrived on March 10th, right when all the craziness hit, so she has been sequestered her whole mission so far). She was a divinity school student when she joined the Church, and has only been a member for two years. 

As for Danes, Swedes, and Norwegians being all the same, when my wife and I were coming back from the FAIR Conference in Frankfurt in 2009, there were two elderly couples talking in the Newark Airport. My wife asked what they were speaking, and I said it sounded like one of the Scandinavian languages. They looked open and approachable, so I asked one of the men if they were speaking Swedish or Norwegian (it was Norwegian). "Swedish, Norwegian, same thing, right?" I said. He smiled and said, "Sweden is our little brother." :) 

I have an nth degree grandfather who is known as the Danish Regicide.  He led the revolt against Sweden to get the Isle of Bornholm back under Danish rule.  Most of ancestors on my father's side are from Bornholm.

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