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What Am I Not Understanding: Members Holding Public Gospel Study Sessions


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*The information provided in this post is taken from another website. The purported source poster claims to have received the information from a sister in Eastmark Stake  of Mesa Arizona.

Reportedly a flyer is being sent out in an Mesa Arizona ward/stake inviting people to meet in a public park for Sunday school to to study.

To my knowledge Arizona is not under restrictions regarding gatherings - Maricopa County does have over 400 case of covid19. There is this from the Church newsroom:

 

Quote

 

     Beginning immediately, all public gatherings of Church members are being temporarily suspended worldwide until further notice. This includes:

  •   Stake conferences, leadership conferences and other large gatherings
  • All public worship services, including sacrament meetings
  • Branch, ward and stake activities

 

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The flyer references Elder Quentin L. Cook Oct 2018 "gather in groups outside the normal Sunday worship services to enjoy gospel sociality and be strengthened by studying".


opwwl7i14uo41.jpg

Edited by provoman
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These types of things are a seedbed for apostasy and cult followings (charismatic "civilians" leading study groups). They undercut the private, family study or at most study among people close to each other (relationship-wise, not geographically) that many will benefit from during this time. 

Elder Cook's comments, I'm certain, were more geared towards people close to and close with each other, and not "Denver Snuffer-lite" in the park with lots of people who don't know each other, but directed by the aspiring person putting it on. 

Danger, Will Robinson! I agree that local leaders should stamp this out. 

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I'm not defending what's going on here, but perhaps the thinking is that there is less of a risk in an open area than there would be in, for example, an enclosed building.

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5 hours ago, provoman said:

Reportedly a flyer is being sent out in an Mesa Arizona ward/stake inviting people to meet in a public park for Sunday school to to study.

I'm sure they have good intentions, but such a gathering goes against what we have been counseled to do for the time being.

Which, if you think about it, doesn't make sense at all. Why have Sunday school at the park when we can't have sacrament meeting at all? Why not have sacrament in the park as well? Just move the whole two-hour block outside and that ought to fix everything (except, of course, for the vampires). ;) 

 

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3 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Hey, I'm sure everyone there will always keep 6 feet away from each other at all times , right! 👥

On my drive home from work yesterday, I passed by one of the local high schools. In the parking lot was a circle (think, circle the wagons circle) of six or so cars. 

On top of each car was a girl sitting on a blanket, and you could tell they were all just chattering away, having a good time. It made me smile to think they had found a clever way to all meet up in person but still stay separated from each other.

I also naturally assumed that they were a YW class - though I've obviously got no way of knowing for sure.

I'm going to pass the idea on to our YW president though. Might be a fun Wednesday night activity. :) 

 

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I wonder if the authorities could gather a group of random people , say 100 , to isolate together as a control group to see if all this social distancing does any good. Maybe that is what they are doing , without consent , with the homeless in San Fran. 

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8 hours ago, provoman said:

*The information provided in this post is taken from another website. The purported source poster claims to have received the information from a sister in Eastmark Stake  of Mesa Arizona.

Reportedly a flyer is being sent out in an Mesa Arizona ward/stake inviting people to meet in a public park for Sunday school to to study.

To my knowledge Arizona is not under restrictions regarding gatherings - Maricopa County does have over 400 case of covid19. There is this from the Church newsroom:

 

  •  

The flyer references Elder Quentin L. Cook Oct 2018 "gather in groups outside the normal Sunday worship services to enjoy gospel sociality and be strengthened by studying".


opwwl7i14uo41.jpg

Well, we here in Washington have a head start on the rest of the US except New York. Here's what we're doing:

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NOW, THEREFORE, I, Jay Inslee, Governor of the state of Washington, as a result of the above-noted situation, and under Chapters 38.08, 38.52 and 43.06 RCW, do hereby proclaim: that a State of Emergency continues to exist in all counties of Washington State; that Proclamation 20-05 and all amendments thereto remain in effect as otherwise amended; and that Proclamations 20-05, 20-07, 20-11, 20-13, and 20-14 are amended and superseded by this Proclamation to impose a Stay Home – Stay Healthy Order throughout Washington State by prohibiting all people in Washington State from leaving their homes or participating in social, spiritual and recreational gatherings of any kind regardless of the number of participants, and all non-essential businesses in Washington State from conducting business, within the limitations provided herein....

I continue to order into active state service the organized militia of Washington State to include the National Guard and the State Guard, or such part thereof as may be necessary in the opinion of The Adjutant General to address the circumstances described above, to perform such duties as directed by competent authority of the Washington State Military Department in addressing the outbreak. Additionally, I continue to direct the Department of Health, the Washington State Military Department Emergency Management Division, and other agencies to identify and provide appropriate personnel for conducting necessary and ongoing incident related assessments....

1. All people in Washington State shall immediately cease leaving their home or place of residence except: (1) to conduct or participate in essential activities, and/or (2) for employment in essential business services. This prohibition shall remain in effect until midnight on April 6, 2020, unless extended beyond that date.

To implement this mandate, I hereby order that all people in Washington State are immediately prohibited from leaving their home or place of residence except to conduct or participate in (1) essential activities, and/or (2) employment in providing essential business services:

  1. Essential activities permitted under this Proclamation are limited to the following:

    1. 1)  Obtaining necessary supplies and services for family or household members and pets, such as groceries, food and supplies for household consumption and use, supplies and equipment needed to work from home, and products necessary to maintain safety, sanitation and essential maintenance of the home or residence.

    2. 2)  Engaging in activities essential for the health and safety of family, household members and pets, including things such as seeking medical or behavioral health or emergency services and obtaining medical supplies or medication.

    3. 3)  Caring for a family member, friend, or pet in another household or residence, and to transport a family member, friend or their pet for essential health and safety activities, and to obtain necessary supplies and services.

    4. 4)  Engaging in outdoor exercise activities, such as walking, hiking, running or biking, but only if appropriate social distancing practices are used.

  2. Employment in essential business services means an essential employee performing work for an essential business as identified in the “Essential Critical Infrastructure Workers” list, or carrying out minimum basic operations (as defined in Section 3(d) of this Order) for a non-essential business.

  3. This prohibition shall not apply to individuals whose homes or residences are unsafe or become unsafe, such as victims of domestic violence. These individuals are permitted and urged to leave their homes or residences and stay at a safe alternate location.

  4. This prohibition also shall not apply to individuals experiencing homelessness, but they are urged to obtain shelter, and governmental and other entities are strongly encouraged to make such shelter available as soon as possible and to the maximum extent practicable.

 

e. For purposes of this Proclamation, homes or residences include hotels, motels, shared rental units, shelters, and similar facilities.

  1. All people in Washington State shall immediately cease participating in all public and private gatherings and multi-person activities for social, spiritual and recreational purposes, regardless of the number of people involved, except as specifically identified herein. Such activity includes, but is not limited to, community, civic, public, leisure, faith-based, or sporting events; parades; concerts; festivals; conventions; fundraisers; and similar activities. This prohibition also applies to planned wedding and funeral events. This prohibition shall remain in effect until midnight on April 6, 2020, unless extended beyond that date.

    To implement this mandate, I hereby order that all people in Washington State are immediately prohibited from participating in public and private gatherings of any number of people for social, spiritual and recreational purposes. This prohibition shall not apply to activities and gatherings solely including those people who are part of a single household or residential living unit.

  2. Effective midnight on March 25, 2020, all non-essential businesses in Washington State shall cease operations except for performing basic minimum operations. All essential businesses are encouraged to remain open and maintain operations, but must establish and implement social distancing and sanitation measures established by the United States Department of Labor or the Washington State Department of Health Guidelines. This prohibition shall remain in effect until midnight on April 8, 2020, unless extended beyond that date.

    To implement this mandate, I hereby order that, effective midnight on March 25, 2020, all non-essential businesses in Washington State are prohibited from conducting all activities and operations except minimum basic operations.

    1. Non-essential businesses are strongly encouraged to immediately cease operations other than performance of basic minimum operations, but must do so no later than midnight on March 25, 2020.

    2. Essential businesses are prohibited from operating under this Proclamation unless they establish and implement social distancing and sanitation measures established by the United States Department of Labor’s Guidance on Preparing Workplaces for COVID-19 at https://www.osha.gov/Publications/OSHA3990.pdf and the Washington State Department of Health Workplace and Employer Resources & Recommendations at https://www.doh.wa.gov/Coronavirus/workplace.

    3. This prohibition does not apply to businesses consisting exclusively of employees or contractors performing business activities at their home or residence, and who do not engage in in-person contact with clients.

 

d. For purposes of this Proclamation, minimum basic operations are the minimum activities necessary to maintain the value of the business’ inventory, preserve the condition of the business’ physical plant and equipment, ensure security, process payroll and employee benefits, facilitate employees of the business being able to continue to work remotely from their residences, and related functions.

This may give you a glimpse into your future.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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4 hours ago, rongo said:

These types of things are a seedbed for apostasy and cult followings (charismatic "civilians" leading study groups). They undercut the private, family study or at most study among people close to each other (relationship-wise, not geographically) that many will benefit from during this time. 

Elder Cook's comments, I'm certain, were more geared towards people close to and close with each other, and not "Denver Snuffer-lite" in the park with lots of people who don't know each other, but directed by the aspiring person putting it on. 

Danger, Will Robinson! I agree that local leaders should stamp this out. 

Chad and Lori Daybell take note.

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1 hour ago, Bernard Gui said:

 

This may give you a glimpse into your future.

I don't see the legal basis of the government banning private gatherings of any kind.  This is the USA and not China.  However it is not a proclamation that can be enforced. 

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35 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

Can't these meetings be held online in social media?

 

Yes. Easily. As long as everyone access to the technology.  I would guess most, if not all, have access in that area where I think that is. (Googling I see it may be very close to where a relative lives.)

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16 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

I don't see the legal basis of the government banning private gatherings of any kind.  This is the USA and not China.  However it is not a proclamation that can be enforced. 

I live in New York (upstate). They can and are enforcing it.

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7 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

Oh, yes, the government can ban meetings in the public safety in case of emergency, and CV19 is an emergency.

Public meeting yes.  Private meetings in private homes?  That is a different story.   I for one would have no problem having friends or other family members in my home if that was my choice.  I am not going to say no because a governor says no. 

Edited by carbon dioxide
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20 minutes ago, JamesBYoung said:

Oh, yes, the government can ban meetings in the public safety in case of emergency, and CV19 is an emergency.

The Constitution basis of such authority?

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27 minutes ago, Boanerges said:

I live in New York (upstate). They can and are enforcing it.

Just because a government body acts, does not mean their actions are legal.

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1 hour ago, carbon dioxide said:

Public meeting yes.  Private meetings in private homes?  That is a different story.   I for one would have no problem having friends or other family members in my home if that was my choice.  I am not going to say no because a governor says no. 

Seems like we already had a thread about this....something about Prospero and EA Poe???

As long as you don't have more than 10 people in the home you should be safe. The virus only comes around when 11 or more people are in a room. It used to be 250, then 50. The virus has gotten smarter over time.

Wisdom and prudence would dictate isolation better than a government edict, but not everyone is wise and prudent.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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43 minutes ago, provoman said:

Just because a government body acts, does not mean their actions are legal.

How about ethical?

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8 hours ago, cinepro said:

Well, I'm really putting this on Elder Cook for not being more clear.  He should have said "gather in groups outside the normal Sunday worship services to enjoy gospel sociality and be strengthened by studying UNLESS THERE IS A GLOBAL PANDEMIC AND THE CDC HAS WARNED THERE IS A RISK OF CONTRACTING A DEADLY VIRUS FROM SUCH MEETINGS!"

Since he didn't say that, it's logical to assume he meant for his suggestion to be followed even in such situations.

We are neck and neck with rep points, cinepro (10 each)...I thought you were going to surge ahead being the funny one...while mine is just succinctly profound, but Scott Lloyd brought me back to one short and then Duncan just pulled me back into the race.  The suspense on who is going to win is killing me...

Edited by Calm
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48 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

I don't understand these people.  This is a medical situation.  The scientist and medical professionals say to stay home and practice social distancing.  It is not a debate, and it is not a religious situation at all. These people should be looking to the scientists and doctors for guidance and not trying to justify their actions any other way.

Something that kills me is our Bishop's storehouse is STILL open. The couple that run in, they think they are immune. They are in the at target group. They are even asking for volunteers to help with this!!!!! It's at a Chapel here, which I thought was banned from use??? We had an audio meeting the other night, the Bishop, EQ and RS Pres. Both her and I are like is this some kind of stupid to have it still open??? Why can't we get people to give their order to the Bishop, he authorizes cheques to be given to us or their ministering brothers/sisters and they get their stuff? I can't wrap my head around it.

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