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First Covid 19 Death in Utah


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2 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Pos Rep Tacenda. Personally, if the plant is taking precautions like taking temperature of volunteers, requiring use of gloves and masks,, I think they need to do their thing. We need food. Someone has to produce it. I am very thankful there are volunteers willing to do it. After this kind of thing maybe people won't take the Church food production system so much for granted.

P.O.S ? Are you giving me a rep for that? ;)

2 hours ago, juliann said:

Seriously? Seriously? Making people attend to your "concerns" who are busy trying to provide?

NO, not everyone can make pasta at home. It's not just "flour, oil, water and eggs."  Ever tried doing it in a motel? On the street? Are you that oblivious? That is really cool that you can do it without any equipment! Maybe you could make how to videos for the people who don't have computers!   

 

25 minutes ago, Raingirl said:

Our RS President sent out an email which detailed the extensive steps the church is taking to assure the safety of staff, members, and the community in the Food Storage Center. I imagine similar steps have been taken in all the canneries, storehouses, etc.  

The same email also stated that they are out of stock on some items, with no idea when more will be available  

So, yeah, when millions are out of work, and resources are dwindling, let’s shut down food production.

But let’s make food even harder to obtain because a church critic doesn’t like it. And let’s ignore the thousands of people who are actually looking for ways to make things better for others in this pandemic. 

I’m flabbergasted. 

I've no issue with food production. I've been apart of this a few times! Not a lot, but have volunteered 3 or 4 times. So I'm aware of the wonderful supply of food it can provide. Obviously, people hoarded it by ordering way more than they needed, so that is why they ran out. Too bad there weren't limits. 

This is for a production of pasta, I'm thinking people could go without it even in the near future. Or they can buy it from the regular stores. And if they need help from the church, could the church just cut them a check to buy it, maybe they can't live without it? 

I'm thinking a possible 480 people are put at risk. I don't understand why this is so awful that I'm thinking this isn't an essential need right now. We aren't completely out of food guys. Can we just put this on hold for a couple of months? Pasta?!?

Seriously? I'm flabbergasted!!

Edited by Tacenda
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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

P.O.S ? Are you giving me a rep for that? ;)

 

I've no issue with food production. I've been apart of this a few times! Not a lot, but have volunteered 3 or 4 times. So I'm aware of the wonderful supply of food it can provide. Obviously, people hoarded it by ordering way more than they needed, so that is why they ran out. Too bad there weren't limits. 

This is for a production of pasta, I'm thinking people could go without it even in the near future. Or they can buy it from the regular stores. And if they need help from the church, could the church just cut them a check to buy it, maybe they can't live without it? 

I'm thinking a possible 480 people are put at risk. I don't understand why this is so awful that I'm thinking this isn't an essential need right now. We aren't completely out of food guys. Can we just put this on hold for a couple of months? Pasta?!?

Seriously? I'm flabbergasted!!

Tacenda, it’s not just hoarding rhat’s causingn supply shortages. It’s also a change in demand and supply needs in different areas where food and toiletries available in the home is now in far higher demand and there’s often not enough immediate supply to meat demand of certain good. Plus it’s adding to family bills. For example when my husband started working from homw he now also needs food during the day that he’d usually get for free at his office. This has added probably around 200-300 to our monthly budget. We’re comfortable so it’s not a big strain but for families who are more economically fragile, adding a couple hundred to their budget each month, particularly when they’re furloughed or out of work could be crippling. And because of unprecedented increases in unemployment more and more are financially not okay...there’s also a back log in receiving unemployment benefits and the likes. And even if they are on programs to help, like WIC, they’re still running into food shortages of goods where there’s limits as to what the can buy as replacements. Now add that with the expectation of many parents having to juggle financial stress, work stress:depletion, and pandemic stress...most are also now trying to keep children entertained at home and doing homeschool with no friends and limited access to the outdoors and activities to run their energy. Families are strained, and precarious family situations are leading to increases in domestic violence. In short, families are being run ragged, several systems are being pushed and being asked to change their means of production rapidly. To then insist that said families who likely need easy bulk meals to feed their kids (which pasta often is) should make their own pasta (which is time consuming and a lost art that most would have to learn) rings as insensitive to very desperate situations and times. 


it does come off as insensitive to the times and the problems where this becomes a very needed service to help maintain our systems as all of us go on a major reasjustment. And plain weird to complain about the poor getting pasta. This just doesn’t seem like fair criticism...like complaining someone’s bucket technique isn’t perfect and may strain a shoulder while they’re trying to put out a fire. 

 

with luv 

BD 

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2 minutes ago, BlueDreams said:

Tacenda, it’s not just hoarding rhat’s causingn supply shortages. It’s also a change in demand and supply needs in different areas where food and toiletries available in the home is now in far higher demand and there’s often not enough immediate supply to meat demand of certain good. Plus it’s adding to family bills. For example when my husband started working from homw he now also needs food during the day that he’d usually get for free at his office. This has added probably around 200-300 to our monthly budget. We’re comfortable so it’s not a big strain but for families who are more economically fragile, adding a couple hundred to their budget each month, particularly when they’re furloughed or out of work could be crippling. And because of unprecedented increases in unemployment more and more are financially not okay...there’s also a back log in receiving unemployment benefits and the likes. And even if they are on programs to help, like WIC, they’re still running into food shortages of goods where there’s limits as to what the can buy as replacements. Now add that with the expectation of many parents having to juggle financial stress, work stress:depletion, and pandemic stress...most are also now trying to keep children entertained at home and doing homeschool with no friends and limited access to the outdoors and activities to run their energy. Families are strained, and precarious family situations are leading to increases in domestic violence. In short, families are being run ragged, several systems are being pushed and being asked to change their means of production rapidly. To then insist that said families who likely need easy bulk meals to feed their kids (which pasta often is) should make their own pasta (which is time consuming and a lost art that most would have to learn) rings as insensitive to very desperate situations and times. 


it does come off as insensitive to the times and the problems where this becomes a very needed service to help maintain our systems as all of us go on a major reasjustment. And plain weird to complain about the poor getting pasta. This just doesn’t seem like fair criticism...like complaining someone’s bucket technique isn’t perfect and may strain a shoulder while they’re trying to put out a fire. 

 

with luv 

BD 

You of all people, I would have hoped you would see what I'm saying. No one is addressing the problem!!!!!

We've been asked to stay at home if at all possible for 30 days! No one is going to starve w/o pasta. They aren't making anything but pasta! People can survive a month w/o it. But it's still available at the stores and bishops can write a check for those that can't afford it. It's not worth 480 people to be in short distances apart. It says in the notes on the spreadsheet that they are unable to keep that far apart, kind of impossible. The spreadsheet for my ward alone has nearly 20 each day already signed up. So I'm figuring it's the same for other wards. They are having 49 stakes do this. All I'm asking is for it not to be done during the 30 days!!

Am I going crazy that I'm the only one that is seeing this? 

Of course I would never want a family to go hungry!!! 

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31 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

No one is going to starve w/o pasta. T

Right, let them eat cake. ;)

You yourself can find pasta when you want it and can pay for higher prices. Perhaps that is why you see it as not a problem.  Not everyone can find it or pay for it if they do.  The Church producing its own means lower price of production (less labor or no shipping costs), so it can produce much more.  If it has to pay someone like Walmart with all the extras included, that likely halves the amount it can get for the money...which means more likely to run out of pasta that its clients want (not shoppers as I believe they have put selling stuff on hold and just use food produced for assistance and humanitarian grants until crisis is over).

Edited by Calm
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3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

This is for a production of pasta, I'm thinking people could go without it even in the near future.

No, it is not.  Did you read your own letter?

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Second, we manufacture many products other than simply pasta. Our products (for bishop storehouse and food storage) are the ones that will keep families/people/communities alive in the country when facing catastrophes (earthquake, unemployment, natural disasters, coronavirus pandemic, etc). Here at the plant,  we produce flour, wheat, three types of beans, rice, quick oats, pancake mix, cake mix, potato flakes, carrots, onions, refried beans, apple slices, etc… The inventory we had available and was supposed to last until July 2020 has vanished in the past three weeks. In March of 2019 we sold 9,000 pounds of items for home food storage, and in March of 2020 we sold over 250,000 pounds. The humanitarian request for assistance (to the First Presidency and Presiding Bishopric) has increased in 50%, but we are prioritizing who and how we are helping on a daily basis.

 

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From someone I know well who works with their regional Storehouse:

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I can tell you in the employment devastated ------, the Bishop's Storehouse had seen a significant uptick in demand. We sent two tractor trailers to another community food bank earlier this week that services the larger community. Restaurants that normally provide left overs to the homeless are all but closed, so these shipments help.

 

Quote

The ----- Storehouse has been doing 4x the standard orders per day since mid March. We went from 20-30/day to 120/day. Volume has also increased per order. We are racing to keep up. They have gone to double shifts to fill orders.  We are not accepting orders after midnight the night before a scheduled pickup to give time to stage orders. Orders are filled by stake once per week and stake drivers take them to stake centers for pickup by families. This helps social distancing and efficiency.

We have also dramatically increased humanitarian assistance (grants of food to non-member food banks). I already mentioned we donated 2 semis full of food to ------------  food Bank early last week. There has also been a 5x increase in grants since March. We discontinued our food storage sales and everything is going to assistance and humanitarian grants....

We expect this to have another dramatic surge as unemployment takes its toll. Our storehouse managers are doing an incredible job!

 

Quote
Also, we have significantly increased our orders to local growers for fresh produce and baked goods. Items that can't last through the weekend are donated to local homeless kitchens for help alleviating shortages as demand there increases.

 

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22 minutes ago, Calm said:

From someone I know well who works with their regional Storehouse:

 

 

 

 

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

No, it is not.  Did you read your own letter?

 

I thought this was just for the pasta. Since that was the food assigned for the job. But given the details that you've provided I will shut my mouth for now. I guess I didn't realize the scope and really felt in my heart that the virus took precedence. I felt in my heart that people would never go hungry, they could go to their bishops or they could go to food pantry's. I guess I'm only seeing the immediate problem, I will concede that I may be in the dark about the underlining problem. All I see is virus at the moment. Thanks for your "calm" approach to me with this information.

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6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

P.O.S ? Are you giving me a rep for that? ;)

Yes. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am repping you for posting the letter. So it was a pos./positive rep. Not a P.O.S. comment. I will try to be more clear next time so you don't have to resort to being facetious. ;) 

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21 hours ago, RevTestament said:

Yes. Sorry if I wasn't clear. I am repping you for posting the letter. So it was a pos./positive rep. Not a P.O.S. comment. I will try to be more clear next time so you don't have to resort to being facetious. ;) 

I know, I guess I was feeling like a P.O.S. after getting in trouble for some posts! :)

Thanks though!! 

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  • 4 weeks later...

I recently listened to the podcast below on It's a Thoughtful Faith. They didn't say a thing about the church but I was thinking what a great thing if the church could help out our native tribes that are especially hurting with the virus. They were already hurting without electricity, running water (they have to drive miles and miles and to pay for a barrel of water), no cell phones etc. And they're not getting the masks, ventilators, goggles etc to deal with the virus. And not getting the promised 8 billion from the governments stimulus package. https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/5/1/21243876/native-tribes-coronavirus-stimulus-money 

Could the LDS church help out here? Or are they doing something I'm unaware of? 

 

In the podcast below they discuss how the federal government hurt the native Americans ability to sustain themselves, in the beginning. They even sent blankets with small pox on them, and killed off their buffalo in order to kill the natives. And now this slap in the face of not receiving any help with covid-19!

https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/330-covid-19-on-the-navajo-nation-the-fatal-effects-of-health-injustice-jo-overton/

The Navajo Nation has approximately 356,000 people living on the reservation, yet from the Navajo Times on Monday 27 April 2020 we read:

 “As of Monday evening, there are 1,769 positive COVID-19 cases on the Navajo Nation, more than one per cent of the residents on the reservation…The total number of deaths remains at 59.”

For comparison, New Zealand has a population of 5 million and has had 1472 cases and 19 deaths.  

Jo Overton (Lakota) joins me to discuss an urgent developing situation on the Navajo Nation which includes a history of ill-treatment and a current state of both federal incompetence and neglect that is proving devastating.

 

Edited by Tacenda
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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Could the LDS church help out here? Or are they doing something I'm unaware of? 

The church is through third parties, it's just not advertising it.  I've personally been involved in sending aid to reservations in southern Utah where much of the food and other items sent has come through the bishops' storehouse.

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54 minutes ago, ksfisher said:

The church is through third parties, it's just not advertising it.  I've personally been involved in sending aid to reservations in southern Utah where much of the food and other items sent has come through the bishops' storehouse.

We have had cases of people working at the bishop's storehouse and getting Covid- three people in one Stake from one assignment BEFORE all the distancing etc went into effect.  They went the same day and got symptoms the same day, two weeks later.  The only thing that linked them was the assignment.

You can't win for losing.  Should they have gone that day?  An interesting moral quandary.   And of course the big question for the politically correct crowd is "Who's fault was that?"

Gotta have someone to blame after all....

Edit: all recovered

Edited by mfbukowski
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They have deaths by covid and pneumonia (17,000+) separated out on the latter page, though that still leaves them about 8000 short. 
 

Maybe that much variation with provisional counts?

Quote

Provisional counts are not final and are subject to change. Counts from previous weeks are continually revised as additional records are received and processed. Provisional data are not yet complete. Counts will not include all deaths that occurred during a given time period, especially for more recent periods. However, we can estimate how complete our numbers are by looking at the average number of deaths reported in previous years. Death counts should not be compared across jurisdictions. Some jurisdictions report deaths on a daily basis, while others report deaths weekly or monthly. In addition, vital record reporting may also be affected or delayed by COVID-19 related response activities

 

Edited by Calm
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30 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

We have had cases of people working at the bishop's storehouse and getting Covid- three people in one Stake from one assignment BEFORE all the distancing etc went into effect.  They went the same day and got symptoms the same day, two weeks later.  The only thing that linked them was the assignment.

You can't win for losing.  Should they have gone that day?  An interesting moral quandary.   And of course the big question for the politically correct crowd is "Who's fault was that?"

Gotta have someone to blame after all....

Edit: all recovered

Early this year, in elders quorum meeting, they asked us to commit to welfare assignments Scheduled during the coming  months. I signed up to work at the Deseret Dairy at Welfare Square. As it happened, my appointment came during the height of the “shelter-in-place” directives that could not have been foreseen at the time I signed up. . I was surprised to get a text from my elders quorum presidency saying they still needed me that day. 
 

But when I reported for work, they had us fill out a screening questionnaire. One of the questions was whether we had been having sustained coughing within the prior three weeks. I was obliged to answer yes, having just gotten over a lingering cold and bronchitis. So I was sent home immediately. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Early this year, in elders quorum meeting, they asked us to commit to welfare assignments Scheduled during the coming  months. I signed up to work at the Deseret Dairy at Welfare Square. As it happened, my appointment came during the height of the “shelter-in-place” directives that could not have been foreseen at the time I signed up. . I was surprised to get a text from my elders quorum presidency saying they still needed me that day. 
 

But when I reported for work, they had us fill out a screening questionnaire. One of the questions was whether we had been having sustained coughing within the prior three weeks. I was obliged to answer yes, having just gotten over a lingering cold and bronchitis. So I was sent home immediately. 

All I mentioned happened before the "lock down" in fact I believe it was just at the very beginning of the pandemic, before social distancing, but far enough into it for hoarding behavior to have started.  As I have the story, it was a very very busy day and very crowded with folks needing help picking up their food orders, etc.   One person could have exposed everyone, especially if the "one" was one of the volunteers who was there all day.

It's a shame- but in our stake alone there were at least three cases from that one day.  Don't know about other cases in other stakes.  No one has passed away in our stake from Covid, as far as it is known, though we have had over 1200 deaths just in LA county, about half the total for the whole state.

Hopefully by the time another pandemic comes along we will have some experience in dealing with it.

It's getting to the point where I don't know how someone can deny that these are the "last days".

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6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I recently listened to the podcast below on It's a Thoughtful Faith. They didn't say a thing about the church but I was thinking what a great thing if the church could help out our native tribes that are especially hurting with the virus. They were already hurting without electricity, running water (they have to drive miles and miles and to pay for a barrel of water), no cell phones etc. And they're not getting the masks, ventilators, goggles etc to deal with the virus. And not getting the promised 8 billion from the governments stimulus package. https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/5/1/21243876/native-tribes-coronavirus-stimulus-money 

Could the LDS church help out here? Or are they doing something I'm unaware of? 

 

In the podcast below they discuss how the federal government hurt the native Americans ability to sustain themselves, in the beginning. They even sent blankets with small pox on them, and killed off their buffalo in order to kill the natives. And now this slap in the face of not receiving any help with covid-19!

https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/330-covid-19-on-the-navajo-nation-the-fatal-effects-of-health-injustice-jo-overton/

The Navajo Nation has approximately 356,000 people living on the reservation, yet from the Navajo Times on Monday 27 April 2020 we read:

 “As of Monday evening, there are 1,769 positive COVID-19 cases on the Navajo Nation, more than one per cent of the residents on the reservation…The total number of deaths remains at 59.”

For comparison, New Zealand has a population of 5 million and has had 1472 cases and 19 deaths.  

Jo Overton (Lakota) joins me to discuss an urgent developing situation on the Navajo Nation which includes a history of ill-treatment and a current state of both federal incompetence and neglect that is proving devastating.

 

 

5 hours ago, ksfisher said:

The church is through third parties, it's just not advertising it.  I've personally been involved in sending aid to reservations in southern Utah where much of the food and other items sent has come through the bishops' storehouse.

Yep. In AZ too.

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5 hours ago, smac97 said:

So the CDC seems to have recently substantially revised down its count of COVID-related fatalities in the U.S., from 65,735 to 38,576.  See here (showing the latter number) and here (showing the former).

Weird.

-Smac

 

Those are two different datasets. Some people latched onto this saying it showed that the whole thing was being falsely exaggerated.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/politics/cdc-coronavirus-death-toll/index.html

The low number is a much more discriminating and procedural count and requires a more specific process involving death certificates and the like before recording the numbers so it is perpetually weeks out of date due to the process involved often taking weeks. The higher number includes probable cases and is updated much more quickly on a daily basis with reports from each state. It may not be perfect (either too high or too low) but is closer to the “facts on the ground”. If you click on the “about the data” bit it explains how the higher number is collected.

 

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12 hours ago, The Nehor said:
Quote

So the CDC seems to have recently substantially revised down its count of COVID-related fatalities in the U.S., from 65,735 to 38,576.  See here (showing the latter number) and here (showing the former).

Those are two different datasets. Some people latched onto this saying it showed that the whole thing was being falsely exaggerated.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/04/politics/cdc-coronavirus-death-toll/index.html

The low number is a much more discriminating and procedural count and requires a more specific process involving death certificates and the like before recording the numbers so it is perpetually weeks out of date due to the process involved often taking weeks. The higher number includes probable cases and is updated much more quickly on a daily basis with reports from each state. It may not be perfect (either too high or too low) but is closer to the “facts on the ground”. If you click on the “about the data” bit it explains how the higher number is collected.

Hmm.  I'm still trying to figure out how COVID deaths are counted.  Consider, for example, this quote from Dr. Ngozi Ezike, Director of the Illinois Department of Public Health:

Quote

I just want to be clear in terms of the definition of “people dying of COVID.” The case definition is very simplistic. It means at the time of death, it was a COVID positive diagnosis. That means that if you were in hospice, and had already been given a few weeks to live, and then you also were also found to have COVID, that would be counted as a COVID death. It means, technically, even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had COVID at the same time, it is still listed as a COVID death. So, everyone who is listed as a COVID death doesn't mean that was the cause of death but they had COVID at the time of death.

Thanks,

-Smac

 

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Factors leading to OVER reporting deaths:
- "If you have rona at the time of death, it's counted as a COVID-19 death" - see Smac's video above.
- Financial incentive to the medical community to find/treat/count rona.
- Double-counting from different sources (Colorado actually had a negative death count one day last week, as they found and eliminated a bunch of duplicates.)
- Overreporting for political reasons (Globalist agenda, want to smear this or that political leader for an election benefit, etc.)

 

Factors leading to UNDER reporting deaths:
- Dying of complications related to rona, without ever being tested.
- Underreporting because of process burden/ignorance (not every medical clinic or hospital administrator reads, or wants, the extra tracking/reporting burden of another stupid report to submit to another government agency every day)
- Underreporting for political reasons (China may face some serious consequences for this early in the year.  Also, govt leaders driven to open up early who need data to make the case.)
- Underreporting for economic reasons (You have an interest in this or that treatment succeeding/being approved/making money.)

 

Factors leading to people seeing one side but not the other:
- Natural man agenda driven biased blinder wearing cogdis error-prone fallen sinful humanity
- Ignorance
- Dumbness

Have fun figuring out the truth here, humans!  For me and mine, my reclusive family has been social distancing from y'all since at least 1996. :)

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7 hours ago, smac97 said:

Hmm.  I'm still trying to figure out how COVID deaths are counted.  Consider, for example, this quote from Dr. Ngozi Ezike, Director of the Illinois Department of Public Health:

Thanks,

-Smac

 

And other states only counted deaths in the hospital and not if they were brought in dead, iirc. Counting is not consistent across the states just as other health measures tend to vary depending on what stats the state decides are important, private, etc. 

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