Boy Scouts File for Bankruptcy

[bsjkki]

Just got this email. 

“We took this action today amid increasing financial pressure on the BSA from litigation involving past abuse in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We believe victims, we support them, we provide counseling by a provider of their choice, and we encourage them to come forward. Our plan is to use this Chapter 11 process to create a Trust that would provide equitable compensation to these individuals. ”

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Just got this email. 

“We took this action today amid increasing financial pressure on the BSA from litigation involving past abuse in Scouting. We are outraged that there have been times when individuals took advantage of our programs to abuse innocent children and sincerely apologize to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting. We believe victims, we support them, we provide counseling by a provider of their choice, and we encourage them to come forward. Our plan is to use this Chapter 11 process to create a Trust that would provide equitable compensation to these individuals. ”

Is there a link to a public statement or just personal emails?

[bsjkki]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Is there a link to a public statement or just personal emails?

I could not find a press release yet. 

[Calm]

Not surprised.  Wonder how much had to do with the cutting ties with the Church and that drop in funding.  Maybe just decided take all the hits at once for restructuring.

[Calm]

https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/news/investigations/2020/02/18/boy-scouts-bsa-chapter-11-bankruptcy-sexual-abuse-cases/1301187001/

Quote

In a statement, the organization said: "The BSA cares deeply about all victims of abuse and sincerely apologizes to anyone who was harmed during their time in Scouting."

"The BSA intends to use the Chapter 11 process to create a Victims Compensation Trust that would provide equitable compensation to victims.

"Scouting programs will continue throughout this process and for many years to come. Local Councils are not filing for bankruptcy as they are legally separate and distinct organizations."

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/the-boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-to-equitably-compensate-victims-while-ensuring-scouting-continues-across-the-country-1028911611

Edited February 18, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

On their website...should have looked here first. https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/the-boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-to-equitably-compensate-victims-while-ensuring-scouting-continues-across-the-country/

[Scott Lloyd]

Just now, bsjkki said:

On their website...should have looked here first. https://www.scoutingnewsroom.org/press-releases/the-boy-scouts-of-america-files-for-chapter-11-bankruptcy-to-equitably-compensate-victims-while-ensuring-scouting-continues-across-the-country/

I found this Washington Post piece from last September. It’s looking pretty grim. 
 

It was high time the Church cut ties, but it’s a sad day for an organization and a movement that has accomplished so much good over more than a century. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/local/social-issues/lawsuits-possible-bankruptcy-declining-members-is-there-a-future-for-the-boy-scouts/2019/09/11/54699d6a-ce53-11e9-8c1c-7c8ee785b855_story.html%3foutputType=amp

[Scott Lloyd]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not surprised.  Wonder how much had to do with the cutting ties with the Church and that drop in funding.  Maybe just decided take all the hits at once for restructuring.

The WaPo piece mentions the Church cutting ties last year and it contributing to a drop in enrollment. Twenty percent is no small loss. 

[Tacenda]

8 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The WaPo piece mentions the Church cutting ties last year and it contributing to a drop in enrollment. Twenty percent is no small loss. 

And worrisome as well because that means there might be a big chunk of scouts abused in the church.

[Bernard Gui]

Yet another important institution is peeled away.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

And worrisome as well because that means there might be a big chunk of scouts abused in the church.

Less likely because our leaders were called instead of full volunteers, but unfortunately some...one I knew personally.   He was assaulted at a scout jamboree so I don’t know if the scouter was a church member or not. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by Calm

[pogi]

8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

Yet another important institution is peeled away.

...to expose something even better underneath (at least in the church)

. 

Edited February 18, 2020 by pogi

[poptart]

This would bother me if I had scouting age sons.  I was a scout, was one of the few times I was exposed to kids here who weren't from some messed up, lower class stratum of society.  Far as I can tell, US society is doing a great job of wrecking what institutions left that actually try to help young people regardless of income.  Churches are being ruined, youth orgs thanks to mandatory reporter laws and now this. 

As an aside, you're even seeing this in institutions like freemasonry.  Think Texas more or less banned groups like Jobs daughters from lodges due to all the classes they required masons to take in order to help out.  I partially blame contemporary entitlement from young parents, I've known of more than a few who treat public school like daycare and expect society to raise their kids.  Considering the high youth suicide, homeless and drug abuse rate this country needs groups like this now more than ever.  Americans have done a fantastic job of destroying the institution of family and as someone who had to be exposed to a lot of violence growing up and had one parent who did some very, very bad things in life, I have no interest at all in any of this save passing comments like these.  Orgs like the scouts/anything youth oriented requires decent men and women of good moral character, you can't reasonably expect broken adults to step up especially when they're bitter and jaded over bad childhoods and adulthoods, at least without offering them some kind of stake/piece of the pie.  There has to be quid pro quo of some kind and it sure seems like the contemporary American stance on things like this is along the lines of gimme gimme gimme, if I don't get what I want from you I'm going to do every mean thing I can to ruin you, social media shamming included. 

Really makes me wonder how all this will play out, know the family I have in Hawaii is doing quite well while the ones here (from what little I hear) are going down the toilet family/financially.  It's such a familiar formula, they're entitled and in some cases racist to no end but the minute an unplanned pregnancy happens they expect society to step up and clean up the mess they made.  Either way, I'm happy I get to watch from afar and have the option to just duck out from most of that.

It's you guys I feel bad for, I really do think most of the people on boards like this are good people who raise/raised good children, contributed to your communities and try to live good lives.  It's going to be you guys who I think will be facing a lot of the fallout from all this.  That sucks.  I figure for putting up with my rants and flamboyant behavior you guys have to be saints.

[Calm]

12 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

The WaPo piece mentions the Church cutting ties last year and it contributing to a drop in enrollment. Twenty percent is no small loss. 

From what I am seeing, outside of Utah not that big of a deal.

[Prof]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

From what I am seeing, outside of Utah not that big of a deal.

I think most people were expecting this.

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Prof said:

I think most people were expecting this.

"This" being what?

What I meant was I have heard from someone who I trust has this level of knowledge that the impact on numbers outside Utah isn't a big deal, in part because of the admission of girls to the BSA.

The Church apparently paid a flat fee rather than individual memberships and got a discount in comparison to other Scouting groups if I understood correctly.

Edited February 18, 2020 by Calm

[Tacenda]

This guy predicted this outcome. Interesting podcast..https://www.athoughtfulfaith.org/288-boys-scouts-the-lds-church-and-sexual-predators-tim-kosnoff/?fbclid=IwAR3W_MD-w5Ji6-hqPlKWUYqW-43Q5z-YEvfPvob5Wq5l9DTZrlGKwcNuV3o

[Prof]

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

"This" being what?

What I meant was I have heard from someone who I trust has this level of knowledge that the impact on numbers outside Utah isn't a big deal, in part because of the admission of girls to the BSA.

The Church apparently paid a flat fee rather than individual memberships and got a discount in comparison to other Scouting groups if I understood correctly.

Sorry for my confusion.

This being the bankruptcy. There has been a lot of discussion about possible bankruptcy lately among scouters. For most, I think it was just a question of when not if it would happen.

[Tacenda]

It looks like for years they didn't want to even do background checks! https://www.latimes.com/local/la-me-scouts-screening-20121202-story.html I've only c/p'd partially, more shocking details in this 2012 article. 

Scouting did not require criminal background checks for all volunteers until 2008 — despite calls from parents and staff who said its vetting system didn’t work.

From the time national background checks became widely available in1985 until 1991 — when the detailed files obtained by The Times end — the Boy Scouts admitted more than 230 men with previous arrests or convictions for sex crimes against children, the analysis found.

The men were accused of molesting nearly 400 boys while in Scouting. They accounted for one in six of those expelled for alleged abuse during those years.

Scouting officials declined to be interviewed but said in a prepared statement that they have enhanced their policies over the years and tried “to ensure we are in line with and, where possible, ahead of society’s knowledge of abuse and best practices for prevention.”

“Numerous independent experts have recognized that our programs for protecting Scouts from abuse are among the best in the youth-serving community,” it said.

The Scouts’ past handling of child sexual abuse has come under increased scrutiny since October, after the court-ordered release of hundreds of confidential files dating back decades. The Times earlier obtained and analyzed a larger and more recent set of files — about 1,900 dossiers opened from 1970 to 1991.

The records, dubbed the “perversion files” by Scouting officials, have been a key tool for nearly a century, intended to keep out men expelled for alleged abuse.

The files also offer a detailed record of the system’s failures. The Times reported in August that from 1970 to 1991 dozens of men previously expelled had slipped back into the program, only to be accused of molesting again. The Times later reported that Scouting officials failed to report hundreds of alleged abusers to police and often hid the allegations from parents and the public.

The organization has fought in court to prevent the release of more recent files, making it impossible to determine how many men with criminal histories were caught in the organization after 1991.

Court records and news accounts, however, show that convicted molesters continued to find new victims in Scouting.

Edgardo Luis Ortiz became an assistant scoutmaster in Providence, R.I., in the fall of 1997 — less than two years after completing a prison term for sex crimes.

Within months, he was accused of sexually abusing two boys on a camping trip. The Providence Journal asked the local Scouts council why it hadn’t done a background check.

“We just don’t,” a top official said. “I don’t know why. It’s just the procedure of the Boy Scouts of America.”

 

 

 

I didn't know that once they claim bankruptcy no one can sue them, how unfair!

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, poptart said:

..................... I was a scout, was one of the few times I was exposed to kids here who weren't from some messed up, lower class stratum of society.  Far as I can tell, US society is doing a great job of wrecking what institutions left that actually try to help young people regardless of income.  ......................

Really makes me wonder how all this will play out, ........................

Here in Utah Valley, Scouting will go on independent of the LDS Church.  The non-religious structure has already been organized and put into operation.  The men who ran Scouting before will continue to do so.  Don't know the scale yet.

[Scott Lloyd]

3 hours ago, Calm said:

"This" being what?

What I meant was I have heard from someone who I trust has this level of knowledge that the impact on numbers outside Utah isn't a big deal, in part because of the admission of girls to the BSA.

The Church apparently paid a flat fee rather than individual memberships and got a discount in comparison to other Scouting groups if I understood correctly.

A flat fee renegotiated periodically based on projected enrollment would be my guess. And the discount was probably due in part to economies of scale accruing to BSA from Church chartering and the efficiency with which it could be carried out. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[poptart]

23 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Here in Utah Valley, Scouting will go on independent of the LDS Church.  The non-religious structure has already been organized and put into operation.  The men who ran Scouting before will continue to do so.  Don't know the scale yet.

That's awesome, hope you guys can keep it together. 

[Bernard Gui]

14 hours ago, pogi said:

...to expose something even better underneath (at least in the church)

. 

Time will tell.

[Tacenda]

I wonder if the church will buy up the BSA's campsites, that would be fantastic, and IMO would be wonderful to help the youth do as they've always done with camps, as long as the leaders have background checks and even parents that go on them. Sure a background might cost $40.00 bucks but it's worth the cost in every way!

[revelstoked]

Bankruptcy won't affect the councils, or so the national BSA says.  Camps are owned by local councils except the 4 big national ones (philmont, northern tier, sea base, and summit).  Because they've had this affiliate setup since before most of the scandals I think they won't pull the local councils into the case. But I'm not a bankruptcy lawyer so reality may not match my expectations.