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Personal Relationship With Jesus Christ


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2 hours ago, Calm said:

George Pace.  He was a very, very popular teacher of religion when I was at BYU.  I didn't like him.  Too much conversation for amount of historical and other info given imo.  I didn't take him, but sat in on my fiancé's class.

 https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/george-w-pace/developing-personal-relationship-savior/

My understanding is it wasn't so much his stuff that was problematic, but what some students were doing taking it to the extreme and viewing themselves as special spiritually because of it.

It is also reported by Pace's son that Pace was not given the chance to explain his position or warned about the talk that appeared to be condemning his work before it occurred.  Even if I didn't care for him, he was sincere and may have been unnecessarily hurt by how the correction was done.  He offered a formal apology and withdrew the book, though it was later republished with revisions apparently.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Pace

 

And this from your quote of the article:

... McConkie felt this was a "gospel hobby" that could lead to "an unwholesome holier-than-thou attitude" ...

Rather ironic, I think, considering the source, but those were the times when that family was very influential in the church

Edited by mfbukowski
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21 minutes ago, Calm said:

Not even his talks?

Frankly as little as possible.

His last testimony was incredibly elevating however. Powerful amazing and without a doubt directly inspired.

He was a wonderful, holy, man and I hope someday I could achieve a small portion of what I feel was his holiness.

Nevertheless I have always disagreed with his Doctrine.

I think portions of his Seven Deadly Sins irc the title, were just simply wrong.

On the other hand during the year I lived in Salt Lake City, after my conversion, seeking Zion ,  ;) he spoke at one of our stake conferences.

It almost felt as if the entire roof was going to lift off and we would all be taken to the city of Enoch. Incredibly powerful speaker, and clearly inspired in the most important areas. But I just think theology was not his strong point.

He felt it and knew it was true but I just think the way he understood it was not logically cohesive.

There.

I said it. ;)

No face cards? Really?

I had to have my wife what that meant translated from Mormon to English.

Edited by mfbukowski
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4 hours ago, Rain said:

What is your short summary of what he was saying as it applies to this topic?


Late 60s into early 80s. Jesus Movement/Jesus Freaks/Jesus People was a movement among young folks in some Christian churches. Emphasized having a personal relationship with Jesus. Some went to extremes like dressing in robes and sandals, beards and long hair, but even though it has faded, it has had a lasting influence on modern Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_freak

IIRC, Brother Pace was promoting an LDS-style version of the Jesus Movement at BYU. Somewhat cultish, maybe. Elder McConkie’s talk was seen by some as a counter response to that. 

It’s interesting to see almost 40 years later that we are now talking a lot about having a special personal relationship with Jesus. Seems to me Pace won, but I am interested in others’ takes, considering Elder McConkie’s final testimony of the Savior. What was his point in the 1982 BYU address? If one says, “I have a personal relationship with Jesus,” what exactly does that mean?

Is it this from Guide to the Scriptures?
 

Quote

Comforter

    See also Holy Ghost; Jesus Christ

The scriptures speak of two Comforters. The first is the Holy Ghost (John 14:26–27; Moro. 8:26; D&C 21:9; 42:17; 90:11). The Second Comforter is the Lord Jesus Christ (John 14:18, 21, 23). When someone obtains the Second Comforter, Jesus Christ will appear to him from time to time, will reveal the Father, and will teach him face to face (D&C 130:3).

Quote

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you....23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

D&C 130:3 John 14:23—The appearing of the Father and the Son, in that verse, is a personal appearance; and the idea that the Father and the Son dwell in a man’s heart is an old sectarian notion, and is false.

 

 

Edited by Bernard Gui
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14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:


Late 60s into early 80s. Jesus Movement/Jesus Freaks/Jesus People was a movement among young folks in some Christian churches. Emphasized having a personal relationship with Jesus. Some went to extremes like dressing in robes and sandals, beards and long hair, but even though it has faded, it has had a lasting influence on modern Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_freak

IIRC, Brother Pace was promoting an LDS-style version of the Jesus Movement at BYU. Somewhat cultish, maybe. Elder McConkie’s talk was seen by some as a counter response to that. 

It’s interesting to see almost 40 years later that we are now talking a lot about having a special personal relationship with Jesus. Seems to me Pace won, but I am interested in others’ takes, considering Elder McConkie’s final testimony of the Savior. What was his point in the 1982 BYU address? If one says, “I have a personal relationship with Jesus,” what exactly does that mean?

So are you saying that you think the OP is taking it to that extreme?

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36 minutes ago, Rain said:

So are you saying that you think the OP is taking it to that extreme?

No. I’m presenting something that happened in the early 80s that has a bearing on the title of the OP and asking what people think. Elder Faust spoke of this relationship and was quoted by Sister President Jones in the October 2018 General Conference. It seems to be becoming a regular part of our jargon. What does it mean?

Edited by Bernard Gui
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8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

No. I’m presenting something that happened in the early 80s that has a bearing on the title of the OP and asking what people think. Elder Faust spoke of this relationship and was quoted by Sister President Jones in the October 2018 General Conference. It seems to be becoming a regular part of our jargon. What does it mean?

I think Elder McConkie was thinking more of the Gospel hobby that becomes the Gospel for its devotee.

I think we now have a couple variations and developments on the theme of personal relationship with Christ that support Elder McConkie's concern about them.  Gospel hobbies that become much more than gospel distractions, they become obsessions.  While attempting to prune the suckers off the tree, he may have cut a little too aggressively and injured healthy tissue.  Perhaps he delayed for a decade or more the Snuffer type of movement, which has, if I understand correctly, taken it to the extreme of not only being able to expect to see Christ in mortality, your exaltation may depend upon it.  Through Snuffer and others' ‘personal relationship with Christ’, they have decided not only can they dispense with the Church and the Prophets, but it has become their stewardship to condemn them.as in apostasy.  Spencer*** of Visions of Glory develops such a close relationship to Christ, Spencer's office in the temple is next door to the office of Christ (Spencer's visions are rather mundane, but he dresses them up with weird sci-fi trappings such as portals in those offices that transport you to anywhere on earth...miniature stargates/wormholes).  Spencer's replacement in the popular mind was Julie Rowe where her personal relationship of visions of the Lord where he provided her with an angelic companion named John for her to visit all the ages of earth iirc have morphed into having been guided to see all her previous lives as well as in the here and now being surrounded constantly by spirits.  Iirc, they are ancestral spirits acting as her guardian angels.  Julie lacks the temple office, but Jesus has chosen her to be one of the coming (after she is assassinated and then resurrected/translated) Davidic prophet/kings foretold in scripture (though her visions expand/altered the role).

So I don't see Brother Pace's POV prevailing over Elder McConkie's interpretation at all, at most both are vindicated.  It has been too long since I read his book, but I intend to read his talk today and see how consistent it is with current talks.  I believe Elder McConkie's view is justified when you look at those now who are taking the desire to learn of Christ to the point of following the new 'guru' and/or engaging in extreme practices, such as imposing severe deprivations or practices on oneself in essence to blackmail God into appearing.  Such a one then believes from what I can tell in their writings and comments because of their willingness to suffer or their unusual "revelations", they are holier than the majority of other believers who are in their view mindless sheeple living spiritually shallow lives.  Eventually they get to the point (usually when recognition of their wisdom doesn't come or worst, criticism or even condemnation) they have no problem openly condemning those 'lesser' believers, especially leaders for not being truly inspired to follow the inspirations of the new beloved disciple of Christ.
 

***The person who uses “Spencer” as his alias as far as I know has not gone so far as to accuse leaders of apostasy.

Edited by Calm
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Thank you to all who have responded to my question over the last few days. I have read and re-read all of your comments and they have been very inspiring.

I thought about trying to respond to each of them personally, but decided it was easier to just Like them so you knew I read it rather than have to respond to a dozen or so people individually.

I have a lot of fabulous ideas to start putting into practice from everyone's input. As I continue my journey, I will report back.

If you haven't commented and want to do so, please do.

 

And for those that have commented, I would love to know your opinions on a follow up question:

In the scriptures it talks a lot about the Holy Ghost manifesting Christ or testifying of Christ to us. Here is just one of many examples:

Quote

2 Nephi 26:13 And that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost; yea, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people,

I'd love to know how this works for people in their lives. How do you feel the HG testifying of Christ in your life? Do you feel like the Holy Ghost has manifested Christ to you?

Again, thanks in advance!

 

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5 hours ago, Rain said:

So are you saying that you think the OP is taking it to that extreme?

 

5 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

No. I’m presenting something that happened in the early 80s that has a bearing on the title of the OP and asking what people think. Elder Faust spoke of this relationship and was quoted by Sister President Jones in the October 2018 General Conference. It seems to be becoming a regular part of our jargon. What does it mean?

 

All,

I know that the term "Personal Relationship with Christ" is a bit of a loaded term. I was familiar with the Snuffer movement and the McConkie/Pace controversy before I posted. I did not use the term in the particular manner that Snuffer or McConkie or Pace used it, but more in the spirit of Faust. And I feel it accurately captures what I am trying to accomplish in my life.

That said, I am not at all offended of bothered if the term itself is discussed as part of this thread. Although that wasn't my original intent, I appreciate that this board does such a good job of discussing meaning of words/phrases and I find this discussion interesting from a purely academic perspective.

But the real Meat of this thread is definitely the suggestions and testimonies of Christ that have been shared by forum members. And the path I feel guided to take based upon the feedback from all of you to come to know my Savior better. So thanks again to all who have contributed thus far.

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6 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Frankly as little as possible.

His last testimony was incredibly elevating however. Powerful amazing and without a doubt directly inspired.

He was a wonderful, holy, man and I hope someday I could achieve a small portion of what I feel was his holiness.

Nevertheless I have always disagreed with his Doctrine.

I think portions of his Seven Deadly Sins irc the title, were just simply wrong.

On the other hand during the year I lived in Salt Lake City, after my conversion, seeking Zion ,  ;) he spoke at one of our stake conferences.

It almost felt as if the entire roof was going to lift off and we would all be taken to the city of Enoch. Incredibly powerful speaker, and clearly inspired in the most important areas. But I just think theology was not his strong point.

He felt it and knew it was true but I just think the way he understood it was not logically cohesive.

There.

I said it. ;)

No face cards? Really?

I had to have my wife what that meant translated from Mormon to English.

Off topic, but yesterday my husband and I visited my mother-in-law at an assisted care center, she has her own apartment etc. She is the one that thought it was time to go into one, she's 90. Well after playing Bingo in the game room with a little crowd of people, she loves games, we went to her apartment. She started acting super sad and agitated a bit, saying how hard Sundays are, and that she was hoping one of the kids would take her back to their houses or visit, which usually someone always has. But no one was on the calendar to do it tomorrow, and I mentioned how about the tv, could she watch the BYU channel etc. And she got all agitated again and said she wasn't supposed to watch tv on Sundays. And then I mentioned to her about being told not to play with face cards and that it was a man speaking whoever told her that. She loves card playing so I hope it stuck and she's not stuck in her apartment on Sunday's w/o the tv to keep her company. Thanks for letting me know who that man was that said that!

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17 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Off topic, but yesterday my husband and I visited my mother-in-law at an assisted care center, she has her own apartment etc. She is the one that thought it was time to go into one, she's 90. Well after playing Bingo in the game room with a little crowd of people, she loves games, we went to her apartment. She started acting super sad and agitated a bit, saying how hard Sundays are, and that she was hoping one of the kids would take her back to their houses or visit, which usually someone always has. But no one was on the calendar to do it tomorrow, and I mentioned how about the tv, could she watch the BYU channel etc. And she got all agitated again and said she wasn't supposed to watch tv on Sundays. And then I mentioned to her about being told not to play with face cards and that it was a man speaking whoever told her that. She loves card playing so I hope it stuck and she's not stuck in her apartment on Sunday's w/o the tv to keep her company. Thanks for letting me know who that man was that said that!

The story goes that the brethren asked him not to publish "Mormon Doctrine" but he did anyway.

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5 hours ago, Calm said:

I think Elder McConkie was thinking more of the Gospel hobby that becomes the Gospel for its devotee.

I think we now have a couple variations and developments on the theme of personal relationship with Christ that support Elder McConkie's concern about them.  Gospel hobbies that become much more than gospel distractions  they become obsessions.  Whether in attempting to prune the suckers off the tree, he may have cut a little too cautious and injured healthy tissue.  Perhaps he delayed for a decade or more the Snuffer type movement, which has if I understand correctly taken it to the extreme of not only being able to expect to see Christ in mortality, your exaltation may depend upon it.  Through Snuffer and others' personal relationship with Christ, they have decided not only can they dispense with the Church and the Prophets, but it has become their stewardship to condemn them.as in apostasy.  Spencer of Visions of Glory develops such a close relationship to Christ, Spencer's office in the temple is next door to the office of Christ (Spencer's visions are rather mundane, but he dresses them up with weird sci-fi trappings such as portals in those offices that transport you to anywhere on earth...miniature stargates/wormholes).  Spencer's replacement in the popular mind was Julie Rowe where her personal relationship of visions of the Lord where he provided her with an angelic companion named John for her to visit all the ages of earth iirc have morphed into having been guided to see all her previous lives as well as in the here and now being surrounded constantly by spirits.  Iirc, they are ancestral spirits acting as her guardian angels.  Julie lacks the temple office, but Jesus has chosen her to be one of the coming (after she is assassinated and then resurrected/translated) Davidic prophet/kings foretold in scripture (though her visions expand/altered the role).

So I don't see Brother Pace's POV prevailing over Elder McConkie's interpretation at all, at most both are vindicated.  It has been too long since I read his book, but I intend to read his talk today and see how consistent it is with current talks.  I believe Elder McConkie's view is justified when you look at those now who are taking the desire to learn of Christ to the point of following the new 'guru' and/or engaging in extreme practices, such as imposing severe deprivations or practices on oneself in essence to blackmail God into appearing.  Such a one then believes from what I can tell in their writings and comments because of their willingness to suffer or their unusual "revelations", they are holier than the majority of other believers who are in their view mindless sheeple living spiritually shallow lives.  Eventually they get to the point (usually when recognition of their wisdom doesn't come or worst, criticism or even condemnation) they have no problem openly condemning those 'lesser' believers, especially leaders for not being truly inspired to follow the inspirations of the new beloved disciple of Christ, 

Interesting. I believe Elder McConkie May have been concerned that some members were putting the Son in the place that is reserved for the Father while diminishing or usurping the role of the Holy Ghost, in other words, distorting the functions of the members of the Godhead.

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58 minutes ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

All,

I know that the term "Personal Relationship with Christ" is a bit of a loaded term. I was familiar with the Snuffer movement and the McConkie/Pace controversy before I posted. I did not use the term in the particular manner that Snuffer or McConkie or Pace used it, but more in the spirit of Faust. And I feel it accurately captures what I am trying to accomplish in my life.

That said, I am not at all offended of bothered if the term itself is discussed as part of this thread. Although that wasn't my original intent, I appreciate that this board does such a good job of discussing meaning of words/phrases and I find this discussion interesting from a purely academic perspective.

But the real Meat of this thread is definitely the suggestions and testimonies of Christ that have been shared by forum members. And the path I feel guided to take based upon the feedback from all of you to come to know my Savior better. So thanks again to all who have contributed thus far.

Thank you for clarifying. I did not intend to derail the thread, but rather to clarify what is meant by having a personal relationship with Jesus. 

To me, it is no more complicated this...to take His name upon us, to always remember Him, and to keep His commandments. If we do these things, this is the promise:

Quote

D&C 59:9 And that thou mayest more fully keep thyself unspotted from the world, thou shalt go to the house of prayer and offer up thy sacraments upon my holy day;
10 For verily this is a day appointed unto you to rest from your labors, and to pay thy devotions unto the Most High;
11 Nevertheless thy vows shall be offered up in righteousness on all days and at all times;
12 But remember that on this, the Lord’s day, thou shalt offer thine oblations and thy sacraments unto the Most High, confessing thy sins unto thy brethren, and before the Lord.
13 And on this day thou shalt do none other thing, only let thy food be prepared with singleness of heart that thy fasting may be perfect, or, in other words, that thy joy may be full.
14 Verily, this is fasting and prayer, or in other words, rejoicing and prayer.
15 And inasmuch as ye do these things with thanksgiving, with cheerful hearts and countenances, not with much laughter, for this is sin, but with a glad heart and a cheerful countenance—
16 Verily I say, that inasmuch as ye do this, the fulness of the earth is yours, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the air, and that which climbeth upon the trees and walketh upon the earth;
17 Yea, and the herb, and the good things which come of the earth, whether for food or for raiment, or for houses, or for barns, or for orchards, or for gardens, or for vineyards;
18 Yea, all things which come of the earth, in the season thereof, are made for the benefit and the use of man, both to please the eye and to gladden the heart;
19 Yea, for food and for raiment, for taste and for smell, to strengthen the body and to enliven the soul.
20 And it pleaseth God that he hath given all these things unto man; for unto this end were they made to be used, with judgment, not to excess, neither by extortion.
21 And in nothing doth man offend God, or against none is his wrath kindled, save those who confess not his hand in all things, and obey not his commandments.
22 Behold, this is according to the law and the prophets; wherefore, trouble me no more concerning this matter.
23 But learn that he who doeth the works of righteousness shall receive his reward, even peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.

 

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40 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

Off topic, but yesterday my husband and I visited my mother-in-law at an assisted care center, she has her own apartment etc. She is the one that thought it was time to go into one, she's 90. Well after playing Bingo in the game room with a little crowd of people, she loves games, we went to her apartment. She started acting super sad and agitated a bit, saying how hard Sundays are, and that she was hoping one of the kids would take her back to their houses or visit, which usually someone always has. But no one was on the calendar to do it tomorrow, and I mentioned how about the tv, could she watch the BYU channel etc. And she got all agitated again and said she wasn't supposed to watch tv on Sundays. And then I mentioned to her about being told not to play with face cards and that it was a man speaking whoever told her that. She loves card playing so I hope it stuck and she's not stuck in her apartment on Sunday's w/o the tv to keep her company. Thanks for letting me know who that man was that said that!

That’s just a tad myopic.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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3 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

That’s just a tad myopic.

So many descriptions for myopic, but whatever, just don't like that my 90 year MIL has to cow tow to some teachings out there that come from men in the church. She has given her life to the church. And now held captive in teachings that aren't necessary. I'm glad I'm not of the mindset that I use to be, always worrying over things taught over the pulpit or in auxiliaries...such as don't wear jean material dresses or skirts, don't go barefoot when home teachers visit, so many to list in my lifetime, ludicrous! 

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

So many descriptions for myopic, but whatever, just don't like that my 90 year MIL has to cow tow to some teachings out there that come from men in the church. She has given her life to the church. And now held captive in teachings that aren't necessary. I'm glad I'm not of the mindset that I use to be, always worrying over things taught over the pulpit or in auxiliaries...such as don't wear jean material dresses or skirts, don't go barefoot when home teachers visit, so many to list in my lifetime, ludicrous! 

Let’s not derail. Do some reading on playing cards. Elder McConkie was not the root of all evil.

Edited by Bernard Gui
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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

Off topic, but yesterday my husband and I visited my mother-in-law at an assisted care center, she has her own apartment etc. She is the one that thought it was time to go into one, she's 90. Well after playing Bingo in the game room with a little crowd of people, she loves games, we went to her apartment. She started acting super sad and agitated a bit, saying how hard Sundays are, and that she was hoping one of the kids would take her back to their houses or visit, which usually someone always has. But no one was on the calendar to do it tomorrow, and I mentioned how about the tv, could she watch the BYU channel etc. And she got all agitated again and said she wasn't supposed to watch tv on Sundays. And then I mentioned to her about being told not to play with face cards and that it was a man speaking whoever told her that. She loves card playing so I hope it stuck and she's not stuck in her apartment on Sunday's w/o the tv to keep her company. Thanks for letting me know who that man was that said that!

So, instead of using this as an opportunity to do something positive, as in step up and keep your mother-in-law company on a Sunday, you use it as an opportunity to bash the church publicly.  

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8 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:


Late 60s into early 80s. Jesus Movement/Jesus Freaks/Jesus People was a movement among young folks in some Christian churches. Emphasized having a personal relationship with Jesus. Some went to extremes like dressing in robes and sandals, beards and long hair, but even though it has faded, it has had a lasting influence on modern Christianity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_freak

IIRC, Brother Pace was promoting an LDS-style version of the Jesus Movement at BYU. Somewhat cultish, maybe. Elder McConkie’s talk was seen by some as a counter response to that. 

It’s interesting to see almost 40 years later that we are now talking a lot about having a special personal relationship with Jesus. Seems to me Pace won, but I am interested in others’ takes, considering Elder McConkie’s final testimony of the Savior. What was his point in the 1982 BYU address? If one says, “I have a personal relationship with Jesus,” what exactly does that mean?

Is it this from Guide to the Scriptures?
 

 

I was at BYU when that speech was given, and George Pace had been my Stake President.  If I remember correctly, there were several instances of students going onto Y mountain to fast and pray for excessively long times hoping to break through to that "personal relationship with Jesus."  I believe Pace used to encourage lengthy periods of prayer on one's knees, but certainly not to the extent some students took it.  Pace was also developing quite the personality cult at BYU in the early 80s, which probably wasn't considered a positive thing.

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1 hour ago, Raingirl said:

So, instead of using this as an opportunity to do something positive, as in step up and keep your mother-in-law company on a Sunday, you use it as an opportunity to bash the church publicly.  

Wow, no we weren't able to be there but called my brother in law to help out and visit, but touche, I guess.

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1 hour ago, Steve Thompson said:

I was at BYU when that speech was given, and George Pace had been my Stake President.  If I remember correctly, there were several instances of students going onto Y mountain to fast and pray for excessively long times hoping to break through to that "personal relationship with Jesus."  I believe Pace used to encourage lengthy periods of prayer on one's knees, but certainly not to the extent some students took it.  Pace was also developing quite the personality cult at BYU in the early 80s, which probably wasn't considered a positive thing.

That’s pretty much how I recall things. 

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On 2/13/2020 at 5:00 PM, Anonymous Mormon said:

I am looking for advice on how to improve my relationship with and testimony of Jesus Christ. I would like to come to know Christ in such that I could powerfully testify that He lives and that his Atonement can carry us through tough times. I would like to increase my faith in him. Although not commonly phrased this way in the church culture, I would like to have a 'Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ.'

As a bit of background, I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ my entire life. I often feel the Holy Ghost (a guiding voice and/or warmth inside me) testify to me of things when I pray (whether it be the Book of Mormon, or what to do in life, etc.). I have felt forgiveness when I have sinned and understand that this forgiveness comes because of Christ and his Atonement. I believe in God and pray to him to guide me - I have a firm testimony of a loving God. I also have a firm testimony of the Holy Ghost. I also love the teachings of Christ and try to live my life by them (i.e., love one another, forgiveness, etc.). And when I have prayed to have a testimony of Christ I have felt the spirit some, though it's pretty minor not huge or overwhelming or major.

But I feel like I am missing a deeper testimony of Jesus Christ. For example, when reading about Christ in the Bible or Book of Mormon I don't 'feel' Him deeply, instead it's usually an intellectual exercise, like I am reading a fiction plot, as opposed to a feeling of reverence or awe that he is my Lord. I don't feel Christ when praying because prayer doesn't revolve around Christ: I pray to Heavenly Father and am answered by the HG, but Christ plays no immediate part I can feel in this process, except maybe giving Grace so God can even listen (I really wish we prayed to Jesus sometimes). I honestly have a hard time seeing Christ as more than a historical figure at times. And I never feel too much more towards him.

Also, I have a really hard time in feeling the power of the Atonement beyond just being grateful I am forgiven. We are given all kinds of promises that Christ can carry us in times of need and although I feel God's love and the Holy Ghost guide me in times of need, I am not sure how to know/feel Christ or the Atonement is at the center of this.

So my question is two fold:

1) What have others done to form a more personal relationship with the Savior? How have you come to know him in your life?

2) How have others successfully applied the atonement of Christ to carry them through hard times? How do you feel Christ and the Atonement (beyond just knowing that you are forgiven) working in your life?

Note: I am looking for sincere answers from anyone who feels Christ in their life, regardless of their feelings towards or activity or membership in the church (Christ is the Lord of all after all). However, I am not interested in this thread devolving into negativity about the church being not true or Christ being not real - if this is your belief, I'd prefer to now have it clog up the thread and you can please start your own thread on that topic.

Thanks to all in advance! I hope to learn a lot from the conversation.

Many have sincere desire to have a closer relationship with the Savior.

Perhaps the answer isn't found in what you can do for Him, but what He has already done for you?

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On 2/14/2020 at 10:35 AM, Bernard Gui said:

I think the key is in the sacrament prayer. We take his name on us, we always remember him, and we keep his commandments. That makes it personal for me.

You keep His commandments?  Interesting.

Do you even know all of the commandments?

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On ‎2‎/‎13‎/‎2020 at 5:00 PM, Anonymous Mormon said:

I am looking for advice on how to improve my relationship with and testimony of Jesus Christ. I would like to come to know Christ in such that I could powerfully testify that He lives and that his Atonement can carry us through tough times. I would like to increase my faith in him. Although not commonly phrased this way in the church culture, I would like to have a 'Personal Relationship with Jesus Christ.'

As a bit of background, I have been a member of the Church of Jesus Christ my entire life. I often feel the Holy Ghost (a guiding voice and/or warmth inside me) testify to me of things when I pray (whether it be the Book of Mormon, or what to do in life, etc.). I have felt forgiveness when I have sinned and understand that this forgiveness comes because of Christ and his Atonement. I believe in God and pray to him to guide me - I have a firm testimony of a loving God. I also have a firm testimony of the Holy Ghost. I also love the teachings of Christ and try to live my life by them (i.e., love one another, forgiveness, etc.). And when I have prayed to have a testimony of Christ I have felt the spirit some, though it's pretty minor not huge or overwhelming or major.

But I feel like I am missing a deeper testimony of Jesus Christ. For example, when reading about Christ in the Bible or Book of Mormon I don't 'feel' Him deeply, instead it's usually an intellectual exercise, like I am reading a fiction plot, as opposed to a feeling of reverence or awe that he is my Lord. I don't feel Christ when praying because prayer doesn't revolve around Christ: I pray to Heavenly Father and am answered by the HG, but Christ plays no immediate part I can feel in this process, except maybe giving Grace so God can even listen (I really wish we prayed to Jesus sometimes). I honestly have a hard time seeing Christ as more than a historical figure at times. And I never feel too much more towards him.

Also, I have a really hard time in feeling the power of the Atonement beyond just being grateful I am forgiven. We are given all kinds of promises that Christ can carry us in times of need and although I feel God's love and the Holy Ghost guide me in times of need, I am not sure how to know/feel Christ or the Atonement is at the center of this.

So my question is two fold:

1) What have others done to form a more personal relationship with the Savior? How have you come to know him in your life?

2) How have others successfully applied the atonement of Christ to carry them through hard times? How do you feel Christ and the Atonement (beyond just knowing that you are forgiven) working in your life?

Note: I am looking for sincere answers from anyone who feels Christ in their life, regardless of their feelings towards or activity or membership in the church (Christ is the Lord of all after all). However, I am not interested in this thread devolving into negativity about the church being not true or Christ being not real - if this is your belief, I'd prefer to now have it clog up the thread and you can please start your own thread on that topic.

Thanks to all in advance! I hope to learn a lot from the conversation.

It's a noble pursuit.

Interestingly, it has been debated within the church whether or not one "should" seek a personal relationship with Jesus, and/or "worship" Jesus.

 

Quote

"At the BYU devotional of March 2, 1982, Elder Bruce R. McConkie spoke about our proper relationship with the Father and the Son and expressed concern about some misinterpretations which are abroad. In the course of his remarks he characterized my book, What It Means to Know Christ, as unwise because it "advocates gaining a special relationship with Jesus." I sincerely desire to be in total harmony with the Church’s teachings and take this means to correct a statement in the book and to clarify what is said there about our proper relationship with the Savior.

https://www.mormonwiki.org/Relationship_with_Jesus.html

 

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On 2/16/2020 at 7:39 AM, Anonymous Mormon said:

And for those that have commented, I would love to know your opinions on a follow up question:

In the scriptures it talks a lot about the Holy Ghost manifesting Christ or testifying of Christ to us. Here is just one of many examples:

2 Nephi 26:13 And that he manifesteth himself unto all those who believe in him, by the power of the Holy Ghost; yea, unto every nation, kindred, tongue, and people,

I'd love to know how this works for people in their lives. How do you feel the HG testifying of Christ in your life? Do you feel like the Holy Ghost has manifested Christ to you?

Again, thanks in advance!

Yes, by telling me things that Christ thinks and feels and believes.  I believe the Holy Ghost is the primary spokesman for Christ, conveying his mind and will to us and to his prophets.  We call it "the power of the Holy Ghost" but I believe we can also correctly refer to that power as the power of Christ and the power of our Father in heaven, because I believe they all work together and would say the same thing as any of them alone would say.  And feel and think and want, etc.  So when we receive any communication from God, from any of those 3 persons who we collectively refer to as God, we are hearing from not only all 3 but from each of them as they share a united message with us.  So essentially they are the same, in purpose and mind and will, even though they are 3 individual and separate people.

It's hard for me to put into words but I think that is essentially it, and how the Holy Ghost does it for me.  When I hear from him I am not only hearing from him but also from our Father and from our Lord Jesus Christ. I hope and think you probably know what I mean.

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The whole idea that Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost all work together for the same purpose so we should have the same relationship with each of them may work for some of you, but it doesn't work for me.

First, I don't feel the same for each of them so our relationship could not be the same.

Second, my husband and I are working toward the same purpose, but we don't have the same relationship with our children as the other does.

So telling me I can get closer to Christ by knowing they have the same purpose doesn't really work. I've never felt they had anything, but the same purpose.

While I can see connections, the two things (the relationship and knowledge of purpose) are separate to me.

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1 hour ago, Rain said:

The whole idea that Heavenly Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost all work together for the same purpose so we should have the same relationship with each of them may work for some of you, but it doesn't work for me.

First, I don't feel the same for each of them so our relationship could not be the same.

Second, my husband and I are working toward the same purpose, but we don't have the same relationship with our children as the other does.

So telling me I can get closer to Christ by knowing they have the same purpose doesn't really work. I've never felt they had anything, but the same purpose.

While I can see connections, the two things (the relationship and knowledge of purpose) are separate to me.

Agreed. 

Knowing that the light of Christ exists, and that He is the reason for all creation, also doesn’t help me feel any closer to Jesus. 

I am the reason my kids have heat but them sitting on the heater vent and feeling the warm air doesn’t help them have a more personal relationship with me. 

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