Lead in Utah Schools Drinking Water

[provoman]

https://kutv.com/news/local/theres-no-safe-levels-of-lead-deq-sampling-finds-lead-in-utah-school-water

"Ninety percent of the school samples showed trace levels of lead. Only 2% had more than 15 parts per billion."

 

75% percent of Utah schools were tested.

This does not mean water from the treatment plant contains lead. It could mean the schools drinking water systems contain lead.

Edited January 28, 2020 by provoman

[The Nehor]

We worry about things like this way too much. The water I drank as a kid contained some lead and look how I turned out....oh! Oh!

This could be very bad.........

[strappinglad]

If many of the schools have this issue , then most if not all of the houses around them have this issue. Plumbing is plumbing. Older copper pipes used solder with lead in it to join the pipes. Much of the modern piping is plastic. 

[provoman]

15 hours ago, strappinglad said:

If many of the schools have this issue , then most if not all of the houses around them have this issue. Plumbing is plumbing. Older copper pipes used solder with lead in it to join the pipes. Much of the modern piping is plastic. 

Good point.

[Amulek]

If I remember right, most of Utah doesn't have fluoride in the water.

Lead though - that's totally fine. 

 

[bluebell]

6 minutes ago, Amulek said:

If I remember right, most of Utah doesn't have fluoride in the water.

Lead though - that's totally fine. 

 

I'm glad Davis county does.

[oremites]

9 minutes ago, Amulek said:

If I remember right, most of Utah doesn't have fluoride in the water.

Lead though - that's totally fine. 

 

If Utah were purposely adding lead to the water, then you might have a point.  And no one (as far as I know) said it was fine.

I didn't read or watch the linked report, but a water system was required to send out an alert to customers when 10% of the system was over 15 parts per billion.  The threshold for immediate action was 40 parts per billion (if I remember correctly and those figures may have changed).

As with a lot of dangers in life, there's a point of diminishing returns.  The best possible scenario is having no lead at all in the water.  However, the very small health risks for a having a tiny amount might be acceptable considering the very large amounts of money that would have to be spent to attain that, money that could probably achieve greater benefits if used elsewhere. 

Just because there's some lead in the water doesn't necessarily mean Utahn's are a bunch of heartless, greedy b*st*rds who don't care about school children.  Or maybe it does.  I don't have enough information to go on at this point.

 

[strappinglad]

Just for perspective , 15 ppb is about one teaspoon in 265,000 gallons of water. That's about  a dozen of those large above ground backyard pools. 

Chlorine in treated water covers a wide range but middle ground is about 200 ppb ( if I moved the decimal correctly ) 

Edited January 29, 2020 by strappinglad

[Amulek]

1 hour ago, oremites said:

If Utah were purposely adding lead to the water, then you might have a point.

Well, my point was really more that I find it ironic that Utah has got a problem with keeping harmful substances out of their water while they, with few exceptions, simultaneously prevent helpful substances from being added to their water. That seems like the exact opposite of how things ought to be - at least in my opinion. YMMV.

 

[Calm]

50 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Well, my point was really more that I find it ironic that Utah has got a problem with keeping harmful substances out of their water while they, with few exceptions, simultaneously prevent helpful substances from being added to their water. That seems like the exact opposite of how things ought to be - at least in my opinion. YMMV.

 

Given the fluoride present in most toothpastes these days, not sure one should be eager to add it to the water too.  I think it is a toss up at times between parents not pushing their kids enough to brush (for those fluoride added to water is a plus) and those who don't teach their kids safe usage of fluoride toothpaste (not so beneficial).

Utah has over 50% communities having fluoridated water, a number naturally occurring.

Quote

Over 95% of toothpastes now contain fluoride.

A single strip of toothpaste covering the length of a child’s brush contains between 0.75 to 1.5 mg of fluoride. This exceeds the amount of fluoride in most prescription fluoride supplements (0.25 to 1.0 mg).

Many young children swallow over 50% of the paste added to their brush, particularly if they use candy-flavored varieties and if they are not supervised during brushing to ensure they spit and fully rinse. Researchhas shown that some children swallow more fluoride from toothpaste alone than is recommended from all sources combined.

Although dentists now recommend that children only use “a pea-sized amount” of toothpaste, many children use more than this, particularly when the toothpaste has bubble gum and watermelon flavors.

Ingesting toothpaste during childhood is a major risk factor for dental fluorosis, and can also cause symptoms of acute fluoride toxicity (e.g., stomach pain, etc).

The FDA now requires a poison warning on all fluoride toothpastes sold in the U.S.

http://fluoridealert.org/issues/sources/f-toothpaste/

https://www.stanfordchildrens.org/en/topic/default?id=fluoride-and-children-90-P01853

Quote

What health risks of fluoride use?

In general, fluoride is safe. Health risks of fluoride use are usually limited to misuse and to getting too much fluoride. To avoid these risks:

Don't swallow toothpaste and other dental hygiene products.

Keep toothpaste out of young children's reach. Make sure you help your child with tooth-brushing until he or she is 7 to 8 years old.

Call the local water department or the health department to find out the fluoride level in your local drinking water.

Children are at risk for dental fluorosis as their teeth are more sensitive to fluoride. Fluorosis only occurs in developing teeth. It does not occur in teeth that have already come in. Talk to your child's healthcare provider or dentist if you notice changes in your child's teeth.

 

Edited January 30, 2020 by Calm

[Amulek]

12 hours ago, Calm said:

Given the fluoride present in most toothpastes these days, not sure one should be eager to add it to the water too.  

Nope. It almost always needs to be added to the water. 

 

Quote

I think it is a toss up at times between parents not pushing their kids enough to brush (for those fluoride added to water is a plus) and those who don't teach their kids safe usage of fluoride toothpaste (not so beneficial).

Well, how much brushing is "enough" depends on how much fluoride is in the water to begin with. One of the problems we see that takes place in Utah is that you have all of these college kids who come from places where fluoride is a standard part of water treatment (read: pretty much anywhere other than Utah). They get to Provo and keep brushing their teeth just like they have their entire life, only when they go back home after their first year of school they find that they have developed cavities, because they simply aren't exposed to as much fluoride any longer. 

 

Quote

Utah has over 50% communities having fluoridated water, a number naturally occurring.

My wife was part of the big campaign several years ago which pushed for fluoride treatment across the state. Here's one of the facts I remember clearly: "naturally occurring" almost invariably means "sub-optimal" (i.e., still requiring supplementation).  

And I'm not certain how the information you were looking at determines "communities," but according to the CDC there are 463 water systems in the state of Utah, 68 of which are fluoridated, 395 of which are not. Now, I know that Salt Lake County is fluoridated, so maybe that accounts for a significant portion of the population being exposed to treated water, so maybe they are looking at the numbers more in terms of treated population?

 

[Calm]

From what I read it is the young kids who swallow tasty fluoridated toothpaste that is the primary concern. 

Looks like there is little issue if one has the ability not to swallowduring whatever type of treatment one gets.  Might be better to go for more tasteless than tasty when it comes to kids' toothpaste.

I need to get back to sleep so will look for the link I got the 50%, but would t be surprised if by population.  The communities that needed no supplementation due to natural sources were a small percentage, some needed quite a bit more, but the largest areas of population from my skim did not seem to be included in the lists, so the claim Utah in general doesn't need it seems an overstatement.

People who drink bottled water may need additional supplementation as well, though they may get enough from cooking with tap water.

I am not anti-fluoridation...we get fluoride treatments at dentist and use fluoride toothpaste, I have just lived in one area where it wasn't needed, but people were having fits over it not being added when it would have been too much in the diet.  So I think people should investigate their area where they live and adjust what they do based on that rather a One size fits all approach.

Had to check in to .Calgary to see if the debate was still going up there...and wow, they took it out by government decision against the majority vote and looks like the kids are paying for it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-fluoride-debate-2019-1.5340271

Ticks me off when people say 'we were told there are studies that show....' and then make decisions on that without actually looking at them themselves. (From an earlier article on the same debate)

Edited January 30, 2020 by Calm

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

From what I read it is the young kids who swallow tasty fluoridated toothpaste that is the primary concern. 

Looks like there is little issue if one has the ability not to swallowduring whatever type of treatment one gets.  Might be better to go for more tasteless than tasty when it comes to kids' toothpaste.

I need to get back to sleep so will look for the link I got the 50%, but would t be surprised if by population.  The communities that needed no supplementation due to natural sources were a small percentage, some needed quite a bit more, but the largest areas of population from my skim did not seem to be included in the lists, so the claim Utah in general doesn't need it seems an overstatement.

People who drink bottled water may need additional supplementation as well, though they may get enough from cooking with tap water.

I am not anti-fluoridation...we get fluoride treatments at dentist and use fluoride toothpaste, I have just lived in one area where it wasn't needed, but people were having fits over it not being added when it would have been too much in the diet.  So I think people should investigate their area where they live and adjust what they do based on that rather a One size fits all approach.

Had to check in to .Calgary to see if the debate was still going up there...and wow, they took it out by government decision against the majority vote and looks like the kids are paying for it.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-fluoride-debate-2019-1.5340271

Ticks me off when people say 'we were told there are studies that show....' and then make decisions on that without actually looking at them themselves. (From an earlier article on the same debate)

They make non-fluoride practice toothpaste for littles until they can learn not to swallow the toothpaste so hopefully parents take advantage of. 

That’s too bad about Calgary removing the fluoride against the voters’ will. 

[The Nehor]

Fluoride? Not in my precious bodily fluids!

[Tacenda]

17 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Fluoride? Not in my precious bodily fluids!

That's why I have a filter under my sink. I guess I'm one of those people.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

That's why I have a filter under my sink. I guess I'm one of those people.

That was a joke referring to an old movie.