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My Vote for Hymn to Exclude From the Next Hymnal


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1 hour ago, sheilauk said:

Nope, never sung God save the queen at a service of The church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints.  I think it may have been sung at a Remembrance day service at the church of England.   No, Brexit won't create a demand to sing the anthem at church.  Or many other places.   Really,  the anthem is not widely sung.  I don't think it's all that popular, land of hope and glory is more often sung, and there are regular calls to make it an official national anthem with the dirge that is God save the queen left for if she is present. 

I quite like “My Country, ‘Tis of Thee,” the American patriotic song set to the same tune as “God Save the Queen.” It has always been one of my favorites. In fact, I like it better than “The Star Spangled Banner,” our national anthem. 

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Anything with a dirge-like pace can go.  But much of that is on the chorister/congregation.  I've  heard "Because I have been given much" sung brightly with gratitude and droned like we don't act

In wards I have attended where this has been done successfully, it has been incorporated into the program as a teaching activity.  So, over the course of a month, the new song would be set as the

When I started this thread, I had vowed not to argue with people over their expressed preferences. But sorry, as with “Praise to the Man,” I gotta push back on “There Is a Green Hill Far Away,” defini

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2 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I thought so. My suggestion was scarcely serious. 

I thought as much!   Thought I'd make it clear nonetheless.

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22 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I quite like “My Country, ‘‘Tis of Thee,” the American patriotic song set to the same tune as “God Save the Queen.” It has always been one of my favorites. In fact, I like it better than “The Star Spangled Banner,” our national anthem. 

Hmm, my impression is that My country tends to be sung slightly faster than God save.  The tabernacle choir certainly seem to.   It may also be the words themselves have more variety of sound in My country.  I know even strong royalists complain that God saves is slow and dull!  Clearly,  there are many who like it but Land of hope and glory and Jerusalem are,  I think,  more popular as anthems than God save and the former are, of course, more country than person specific!  Personally,  I don't like God saves (I quite like My country! ) and I prefer Jerusalem. 

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43 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Hmm, my impression is that My country tends to be sung slightly faster than God save.  The tabernacle choir certainly seem to.   It may also be the words themselves have more variety of sound in My country.  I know even strong royalists complain that God saves is slow and dull!  Clearly,  there are many who like it but Land of hope and glory and Jerusalem are,  I think,  more popular as anthems than God save and the former are, of course, more country than person specific!  Personally,  I don't like God saves (I quite like My country! ) and I prefer Jerusalem. 

Come to think of it, I don’t believe I’ve ever heard God Save sung, just played by a band. 

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On 1/27/2020 at 1:46 PM, Scott Lloyd said:

It’s fairly well known that a new hymn book is in the works. It’s a given that not every hymn in our current hymnal can be carried over into the next one; some will have to be excluded to make room for new compositions and other additions.  I submit herewith my nomination for one such elimination. It is 

Because I Have Been Given Much,” No. 219. 
 

Here are my reasons. 

1. It is difficult for me to sing as arranged.
 

Almost all of the hymns in our book are not keyed in a comfortable vocal range for me to sing the lead or melody part. But since nearly all are arranged in four-part vocal harmony, it’s a simple matter for me to follow the bass line. Since I like to harmonize anyway, it’s a satisfying experience for me to sing our hymns. 
 

Except for 219. It is printed in an arrangement with only a vocal lead part, no harmony. And as I indicated, it is in an uncomfortable key for my range. Some days, if the meeting is early in the day and my vocal cords haven’t quite awakened yet, and that hymn is chosen for congregational singing, I opt not to sing at all because it is too daunting for me to reach those notes. 
 

2. Onerous copyright restrictions. 
 

Almost every one of our hymns may be freely copied for incidental Church or home use. Not so with No. 219. 
 

In the printed hymn book, it carries this notice: 

“All rights reserved. International copyright secured. Used by permission. Making copies without written permission of the copyright owner is prohibited.”

The hymn is only provided in the printed version of the hymn book. It is not available in the digital versions meant for the Church website or its mobile app. I think it fairly obvious this is due to the draconian copyright provisions. 
 

That might also be the reason that only a melody line is provided. Perhaps in order to secure permission to publish the hymn, the Church had to agree not to alter the written arrangement  

 

My point is, why should we put up with this? We have ample selections in our hymnody; we don’t have to choose one with such austere copyright restrictions. It has a nice message in the text, but so do our other hymns and, no doubt, so will the new ones selected for inclusion in the new book. It is not indispensable. 
 

And I don’t find the melody outstanding. 
 

So I’m for voting No. 219 off the island.

 

A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief, There is a Green Hill Far Away, Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel and Sunshine in My Soul are the absolute worst.

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37 minutes ago, Valentinus said:

A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief, There is a Green Hill Far Away, Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel and Sunshine in My Soul are the absolute worst.

The first two I don't mind, but the last two.....so much the worst.

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On 2/1/2020 at 8:53 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

I love “Because I Have Been Given Much”, before my injury when my grandchildren were sleepy and no one could quiet them, I would hold them and rock them back and forth singing this song to them, and two of my own children. They would even ask me to sing it to them, while telling me they were not sleepy. However, I am not sure if they went to sleep because of my singing, or just to avoid me continuing to sing, probably the latter. 
 

Let me be clear and say there is nothing about “Because I Have Been Given Much” that makes it inherently unappealing to me. As I’ve indicated, the message in the text is fine, and the melody is not unpleasant. 

On the contrary, I would favor retaining it if it could be published in a new arrangement, one that accommodated vocal harmony with a bass part. Or, barring  that, if it were published in a lower key that made it comfortable for me to sing the melody in unison. 

Alas, due to copyright regulations, I don’t foresee that happening. So I would not be disappointed if the hymn, in its present form, were omitted next time. 

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20 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Put Your Shoulder to the Wheel and Sunshine in My Soul are the absolute worst.

These are very much old-school Disneyesque musical type melodies/lyrics.  They would fit quite nicely in films like Marry Poppins... 

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15 minutes ago, pogi said:

These are very much old-school Disneyesque musical type melodies/lyrics.  They would fit quite nicely in films like Marry Poppins... 

How fortunate we are to live in an enlightened age when we are freed from the fetters of “old-school, Disney-esque-musical type melodies/lyrics.”

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4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

How fortunate we are to live in an enlightened age when we are freed from the fetters of “old-school, Disney-esque-musical type melodies/lyrics.”

I wasn't making a judgment.  Just making an observation.  You have to admit, it is not a far stretch to imagine Julie Andrews singing one of these songs just after finishing A Spoonful of Sugar.    

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On 1/27/2020 at 2:09 PM, JLHPROF said:

Anything with a dirge-like pace can go. 

But much of that is on the chorister/congregation.  I've  heard "Because I have been given much" sung brightly with gratitude and droned like we don't actually want to give.

A fair point. But a peppy, upbeat tempo is not appropriate for every hymn text or even every occasion. Aren’t you throwing the baby out with the bath water if you insist on eliminating all the non-peppy, non-bouncy ones?  What would you do for the sacrament? 

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12 minutes ago, pogi said:

I wasn't making a judgment.  Just making an observation.  You have to admit, it is not a far stretch to imagine Julie Andrews singing one of these songs just after finishing A Spoonful of Sugar.    

You and JLHPROF should get together and hammer out a consensus. He wants to axe everything with a “dirge-like pace.”

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19 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You and JLHPROF should get together and hammer out a consensus. He wants to axe everything with a “dirge-like pace.”

I like the diversity, personally. 

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On 2/4/2020 at 1:04 AM, Scott Lloyd said:

 

When I started this thread, I had vowed not to argue with people over their expressed preferences. But sorry, as with “Praise to the Man,” I gotta push back on “There Is a Green Hill Far Away,” definitely on my short list of favorites. 

It was written by Cecil Frances Alexander, an Irish poetess and hymn composer who was an Anglican Sunday school teacher in the congregation where her husband was pastor. She employed her talents as a hymn writer to teach gospel precepts to children. 

In addition to “There Is a Green Hill Far Away,” two other of her works — the Christmas hymn “Once in Royal David’s City” and the Easter Hymn “He Is Risen” — are in our hymnal. And her song “All Things Bright and Beautiful” is in our Children’s Songbook. 

I love them all. 

That's not arguing, Scott. However, Praise to the Man is a poorly written hymn, IMNSHO. Not because it's about JS but because the lyrics are so bad.

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21 hours ago, pogi said:

I wasn't making a judgment.  Just making an observation.  You have to admit, it is not a far stretch to imagine Julie Andrews singing one of these songs just after finishing A Spoonful of Sugar.    

So true.

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20 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You and JLHPROF should get together and hammer out a consensus. He wants to axe everything with a “dirge-like pace.”

A Poor Wayfaring Man of Grief fits this description perfectly. Fortunately, the only times I've actually suffered through the song in the past has been in the month of June...which was still too many times. 

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21 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

A fair point. But a peppy, upbeat tempo is not appropriate for every hymn text or even every occasion. Aren’t you throwing the baby out with the bath water if you insist on eliminating all the non-peppy, non-bouncy ones?  What would you do for the sacrament? 

How about no hymn just before Communion and focus more on the sacramental prayers and the Anaphora.

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2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

How about no hymn just before Communion and focus more on the sacramental prayers and the Anaphora.

Nah. Jesus and His disciples sang “an hymn.” That precedent is good enough for me. 

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2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

How about no hymn just before Communion and focus more on the sacramental prayers and the Anaphora.

I'm with Scott on this one - keep the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper hymn. I generally think we sing too little in our church. I also like the focus on the Savior of the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper hymns.

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2 hours ago, Valentinus said:

That's not arguing, Scott. However, Praise to the Man is a poorly written hymn, IMNSHO. Not because it's about JS but because the lyrics are so bad.

It is pushing back — intentionally. 
 

And the words of “Praise to the Man” resonate with me. 

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1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Nah. Jesus and His disciples sang “an hymn.” That precedent is good enough for me. 

Jesus also declared that the wine is His blood and the bread is His body. No metaphor. No figurative language. No pneumatic presence hocus pocus.

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7 hours ago, Valentinus said:

Jesus also declared that the wine is His blood and the bread is His body. No metaphor. No figurative language. No pneumatic presence hocus pocus.

How can you declare that with such certitude when the Bible is so replete with metaphor and imagery?

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