Racist Doctrine in Come Follow Me Lesson Manual Already Distributed

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, stemelbow said:

No we don't.  That will be skewed, because as it turns out, police tend to engage black people, particularly, black men more.  The whole issue we're facing here is black men, in particular, are facing interrogation, and police suspicion more than white men, and every other race for that matter.  

 

 

It wouldn’t be that black men as a segment of the population are more apt to commit violent crime, would it? 

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

No one knows.  It's not a matter of how much is recorded.  It's a matter of mistreatment.  If they commit .3 percent of the crime and yet are persecuted for 5% of the crime, then the problem isn't that they commit more crime, per capita, but that they are targeted more as culprits.  

It's like you're sitting in the midst of everything that's happening and not catching any of it.  

You are missing the point. Nationwide 13% of the population commits 90% of the crime. In Utah if 1.06 percent of the population is committing 50% of the crime of course their mistreatment stats will be out of whack. 

[rodheadlee]

2 hours ago, stemelbow said:

No we don't.  That will be skewed, because as it turns out, police tend to engage black people, particularly, black men more.  The whole issue we're facing here is black men, in particular, are facing interrogation, and police suspicion more than white men, and every other race for that matter.  

 

 

That is because they commit a larger percentage of the crime. It's not racism it's statistics. The actual stats are 3% commit 57% of the violent crimes in the USA.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=13%2F90

Edited June 5, 2020 by rodheadlee

[pogi]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

It wouldn’t be that black men as a segment of the population are more apt to commit violent crime, would it? 

41 minutes ago, rodheadlee said:

That is because they commit a larger percentage of the crime. It's not racism it's statistics. The actual stats are 3% commit 57% of the violent crimes in the USA.

 

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=13%2F90

I, for one, don't believe that black people are inherently more prone to crime.  That simply does not ring true to me.  So what is the explanation here?  Does racism really not play a role in these statistics?  If it is true that black people truly do commit more crime (and these numbers are not skewed due to police looking for trouble in one population more than another, or racist false convictions), is that a black person problem or a systemic problem stemming from racism?

On a related note, you all really should watch this movie.  Fantastic!

 

 

[MustardSeed]

My opinion is that if people with more pigmentation in their skin commit crime than those with less, there must be a systemic cause, therefore a systemic solution.  Pigment doesn't have a brain of its own.

The only 'blatantly' racist people I know personally in my circle of friends and acquaintances are one neighbor and several members of my church.  There is much work to be done.  I think most of the folks I know who are racist are also pretty naive, sheltered, and only surround themselves with like minded people.

[Calm]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

You'd have to know the percent of crime committed by each race verses their mortality rate at the hands of the police before you can use this statistic to mean anything.  

Not just crime but any encounter since on occasion a pullover for a traffic light or just random stop can result in injury or death. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

Nationwide 13% of the population commits 90% of the crime.

Of the known or investigated crime. How many criminals get away with crime due to no reason investigation?  Does this vary due to race because some races raise less suspicion than others?

Edited June 5, 2020 by Calm

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I, for one, don't believe that black people are inherently more prone to crime.  That simply does not ring true to me.  So what is the explanation here?  Does racism really not play a role in these statistics?  If it is true that black people truly do commit more crime (and these numbers are not skewed due to police looking for trouble in one population more than another, or racist false convictions), is that a black person problem or a systemic problem stemming from racism?

On a related note, you all really should watch this movie.  Fantastic!

 

 

I don’t claim it’s biological, if that’s what you’re implying. I’m not an idiot. 
 

Nor do I think racism is entirely or even mostly to blame. 

I think it’s culturally driven, largely from children being reared in homes where the father is absent, a condition that drives all other social problems because of the disadvantages and burdens it visits upon innocent children. 
 

To get a better take in it, check out some of the writings and discourse of Candace Owens, a brilliant, young black woman, founder of the Blexit movement. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[teddyaware]

7 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

My opinion is that if people with more pigmentation in their skin commit crime than those with less, there must be a systemic cause, therefore a systemic solution.  Pigment doesn't have a brain of its own.

The only 'blatantly' racist people I know personally in my circle of friends and acquaintances are one neighbor and several members of my church.  There is much work to be done.  I think most of the folks I know who are racist are also pretty naive, sheltered, and only surround themselves with like minded people.

You’ve got me wondering if a 75% out of wedlock birth rate also has a systemic cause? And if there is, what the systemic solutions might be?

Do you believe the fact that so many black boys grow up with absent or disengaged fathers is contributory to the high crime rate of which you speak? And if you do, what do you think has been the primary cause for so many being raised without engaged fathers?

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think it’s culturally driven, largely from children being reared in homes where the father is absent, a condition that drives all other social problems because of the disadvantages and burdens it visits upon innocent children. 
 

And why are fathers absent in black families today when in the past they were present?

[Scott Lloyd]

3 minutes ago, Calm said:

And why are fathers absent in black families today when in the past they were present?

I could give reasons, but I’d probably get dinged for being political. 
 

But you might consider my recommendation of the thoughts of Candace Owens. 

Edited June 5, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

Just now, Scott Lloyd said:

I could give reasons, but I’d probably get dinged for being political. 

Right, much better just to throw out a claim. 

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Right, much better just to throw out a claim. 

Nope. I let you bait me before (not on this topic) and got Inexplicably thread-banned. Not gonna happen again. 
 

Just check out what Candace Owens has to say. Good place to start. 

[MiserereNobis]

10 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Nope. I let you bait me before (not on this topic) and got Inexplicably thread-banned. Not gonna happen again. 
 

Just check out what Candace Owens has to say. Good place to start. 

I'll take your bait.

If people suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, then Owens suffers from Liberal Derangement Syndrome. I'm not going to take anyone seriously who boldly claims, as she does: "the left hates America." That is an irrational sweeping false generalization and certainly doesn't present a mind that can think clearly and argue rationally. She is nothing more than a partisan political pundit. How about suggesting some academic articles that are not biased and instead rely on data, research, and clear thinking?

Edited June 6, 2020 by MiserereNobis

[Scott Lloyd]

2 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I'll take your bait.

If people suffer from Trump Derangement Syndrome, then Owens suffers from Liberal Derangement Syndrome. I'm not going to take anyone seriously who boldly claims, as she does: "the left hates America." That is an irrational sweeping false generalization and certainly doesn't present a mind that can think clearly and argue rationally. She is nothing more than a partisan political pundit. How about suggesting some academic articles that are not biased and instead rely on data, research, and clear thinking?

Are you reacting here more to what she has said or to what antagonists have said about her? 

[rodheadlee]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

I, for one, don't believe that black people are inherently more prone to crime.  That simply does not ring true to me.  So what is the explanation here?  Does racism really not play a role in these statistics?  If it is true that black people truly do commit more crime (and these numbers are not skewed due to police looking for trouble in one population more than another, or racist false convictions), is that a black person problem or a systemic problem stemming from racism?

On a related note, you all really should watch this movie.  Fantastic!

 

 

I don't know. My father did 11 years on false charges and he is not black. I am sure the legal system is slanted towards those with money. We ran out of money to fight with. The appeal reduced the sentence to 7 years. This tells me poor black people would have a really hard time in the system.  

When we visited the prison the visiting room was multi racial. It was in L.A. county so location didn't skew the stats.

I just wanted to add I don't know if those stats are based on arrest or convictions.

Edited June 6, 2020 by rodheadlee

[MiserereNobis]

3 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

Are you reacting here more to what she has said or to what antagonists have said about her? 

I’m reacting to her quote, so it’s her words. 

[Scott Lloyd]

33 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I’m reacting to her quote, so it’s her words. 

You and I are both students of the English language and, presumably, you know as well as I how easily words can be taken out of context. 
 

Candace is quite outspoken, and a number of her speaking engagements on college campuses are accessible on YouTube. I invite you to view one or more of these. 
 

Now I think I’m on the brink of bringing sanctions upon myself for political discussion, so if you please, I will excuse myself from pursuing this conversation with you. 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[Calm]

For the quote, some context:

https://www.businessinsider.com/candace-owens-the-left-hates-america-and-trump-loves-it-2018-12
 

I am with MN on this one, massive false generalization. 

[MiserereNobis]

4 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

You and I are both students if the English language and, presumably, you know as well as I how easily words can be taken out of context. 
 

Candace is quite outspoken, and a number of her speaking engagements on college campuses are accessible on YouTube. I invite you to view one or more of these. 
 

Now I think I’m on the brink of bringing sanctions upon myself for political discussion, so if you please, I will excuse myself from pursuing this conversation with you. 

Yes, I probably shouldn’t have responded, either, because of the rules. We’ll leave it at this 😊

[CV75]

1 hour ago, teddyaware said:

You’ve got me wondering if a 75% out of wedlock birth rate also has a systemic cause? And if there is, what the systemic solutions might be?

Do you believe the fact that so many black boys grow up with absent or disengaged fathers is contributory to the high crime rate of which you speak? And if you do, what do you think has been the primary cause for so many being raised without engaged fathers?

What might it have taken for you to have been an absent or disengaged father, given the followers of Christ in the world around you, in their weakness, imposed traditions ("systems" -- including multi-generational evils, designs, conspiring men, secret combinations, etc.) that stifled your liberty in all its forms (2 Corinthians 3:17)?

[CV75]

1 hour ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I think it’s culturally driven, largely from children being reared in homes where the father is absent, a condition that drives all other social problems because of the disadvantages and burdens it visits upon innocent children. 

Indeed, this is one of the many traditions of men that undermines children's' receptivity to the light of Christ.

Similar to the thought experiment above, Posted 18 minutes ago what traditions and systems have kept or prevented the fulness of the Gospel from being preached to them, or kept the Church from entering areas and communities where the Gospel (whether in the form of humanitarian aid or missionary work) is most needed? This happens across the globe. Germane to this discussion about the USA, what traditions and systems keep the blessings attributed to the Gospel beyond those geographic locations that happen to coincide with black neighborhoods (why haven't the Church or members been able to make headway there / why don't you live there)? In these questions, what is the root of the root of the root and at the very bottom of it -- systematically and traditionally speaking, and not speaking to the miracles of the blessings of Christ upon a chosen people?

What kind of Gospel liberty were the traditional black slave and American Christians looking for: spiritual (mostly), prosperity (hopelessly not), and why would that be?

Edited June 6, 2020 by CV75

[pogi]

3 hours ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I don’t claim it’s biological, if that’s what you’re implying. I’m not an idiot. 
 

Nor do I think racism is entirely or even mostly to blame. 

I think it’s culturally driven, largely from children being reared in homes where the father is absent, a condition that drives all other social problems because of the disadvantages and burdens it visits upon innocent children. 
 

To get a better take in it, check out some of the writings and discourse of Candace Owens, a brilliant, young black woman, founder of the Blexit movement. 

If it is cultural, you don’t think systemic racism could have played a role in the “disadvantages and burdens” that have influenced the culture?  You don’t seem to think racism has any, or at least very limited role, in their disadvantage and burdens (passed on generationally from a history of slavery, and institutional racism surviving today), why?

Edited June 6, 2020 by pogi

[Scott Lloyd]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

If it is cultural, you don’t think systemic racism could have played a role in the “disadvantages and burdens” that have influenced the culture?  You don’t seem to think racism has any, or at least very limited role, in their disadvantage and burdens (passed on generationally from a history of slavery, and institutional racism surviving today), why?

I didn’t rule out “systemic racism” as having played a role, nor did I quantify that role other than to say I don’t think it is entirely or even mostly to blame. 
 

You seem determined to read into my words what I never said. Furthermore, you seem uninterested in considering the very real role that fatherlessness has in driving social problems. I wonder why that is. 
 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.deseret.com/platform/amp/1995/4/23/19171268/fatherlessness-is-root-of-society-s-ills-author-says

Edited June 6, 2020 by Scott Lloyd

[pogi]

14 minutes ago, Scott Lloyd said:

I didn’t rule out “systemic racism” as having played a role, nor did I quantify that role other than to say I don’t think it is entirely or even mostly to blame. 
 

You seem determined to read into my words what I never said. Furthermore, you seem uninterested in considering the very real role that fatherlessness has in driving social problems. I wonder why that is. 

You missed my point.

But here is something interesting:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.chicagoreporter.com/breaking-myths-about-black-fatherhood-this-fathers-day/%3famp

Edited June 6, 2020 by pogi