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Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)


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23 hours ago, bluebell said:

I believe she has.  I think because she even though she's deluded, she's mentally capable of knowing that what she was doing/did was against the law.  Lots of different kinds of crazy out there.

And just when one thinks that one has seen them all ... :crazy:😉

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There are, I think (not that I would have any reason to know, but still ... :huh:) potential benefits and drawbacks to trying the two together, and potential benefits and drawbacks to trying the two separately.  Trying the cases together allows prosecutors to present a single, unified and unifying theory of the crimes that accounts for the participation of both of the people charged, but it also allows the defense to attempt to sow reasonable doubt as to the criminal responsibility of one defendant by pointing fingers at the other. 

If the two were tried separately, prosecutors could, if they choose to do so, make completely different (that is, possibly inconsistent) arguments about the participation of each defendant, respectively, in the crimes, and, while, still, each defendant's counsel could point fingers at the other, I think it's harder to sow reasonable doubt in separate trials.  In the case of separate trials, in a sense, the outcome of one is irrelevant to the other, while, in the case where two defendants are tried jointly, the outcome as to one defendant is bound up inextricably in the outcome as to the other.  In a joint trial, jurors could, for example, decide that Lori was the main "mover and shaker" and, that, therefore, necessarily, Chad is comparatively or relatively innocent, or vice versa.*

Jurors are supposed to decide cases based solely on the evidence they are presented at trial: They are not supposed to consult outside sources, such as news coverage that mentions evidence not presented at trial.  They're not supposed to.  Do they?  Well-l-l-l ... :unknw: :unsure: :huh:

In any case, while I don't mean, in any way, to discount the tragic deaths that are at the center of this case, it will be interesting to watch.

*I'm not saying that's what will or that it is what should happen either way; I'm just saying that it could.  

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  • 3 weeks later...

This is, unfortunately, not surprising if one is aware of the custody battle between Lori Vallow and her exhusband Joe Ryan and possibly custody issues between Charles Vallow and his exwife over actions of Colby.  There were claims that Lori Vallow was pushing Colby to do inappropriate things to substantiate her claims against Joe Ryan abusing Colby and Tylee.  Whatever happened, Colby is another victim.  That does not mean he shouldn’t be held accountable for his own actions if he has harmed others.  Added:  it appears to be sexual assault.  So much tragedy.

Edited by Calm
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47 minutes ago, Calm said:

This is, unfortunately, not surprising if one is aware of the custody battle between Lori Vallow and her exhusband Joe Ryan and possibly custody issues between Charles Vallow and his exwife over actions of Colby.  There were claims that Lori Vallow was pushing Colby to do inappropriate things to substantiate her claims against Joe Ryan abusing Colby and Tylee.  Whatever happened, Colby is another victim.  That does not mean he shouldn’t be held accountable for his own actions if he has harmed others.  Added:  it appears to be sexual assault.  So much tragedy.

As much as I hate Chad and Lori, and believe me I don't hate hardly a soul, I feel for his grandparents. Such tragedy is right.

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5 hours ago, Tacenda said:

As much as I hate Chad and Lori, and believe me I don't hate hardly a soul, I feel for his grandparents. Such tragedy is right.

Do you mean JJ’s grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, who have semi adopted him as far as I can tell or his actual grandparents on Lori Vallow’s side, the Coxes, one of whom claimed she had talked to JJ after he had been killed…though it is possible she exaggerated and LCD only referred to JJ as if he was there, saying something like “your grandma says hi” and then “JJ says hi back” and that gets remembered as talking to him (that sounds like something LCD would do given what she tried to talk Melanie Gibb into doing to fool the LEOs into thinking JJ was with her).  Or another possibility I heard was that Alex Cox did impersonations and maybe he pretended to be JJ on the phone that day. 
 

I wish I believed the Coxes cared about Colby, but there wasn’t much evidence of it in the past.  His nonrelatives, the Woodcocks, are probably crushed. They might have been holding on to the idea that at least one good thing had come of the tragedy and that was their relationship with Colby. He looked very sweet with them in court. But he has to be so screwed up by being brought up by LCD, dragged through all of her messes from probably before he was born from what is known of her second marriage and divorce. 

Edited by Calm
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5 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you mean JJ’s grandparents, Kay and Larry Woodcock, who have semi adopted him as far as I can tell or his actual grandparents on Lori Vallow’s side, the Coxes, one of whom claimed she had talked to JJ after he had been killed…though it is possible she exaggerated and LCD only referred to JJ as if he was there, saying something like “your grandma says hi” and then “JJ says hi back” and that gets remembered as talking to him (that sounds like something LCD would do given what she tried to talk Melanie Gibb into doing to fool the LEOs into thinking JJ was with her).  Or another possibility I heard was that Alex Cox did impersonations and maybe he pretended to be JJ on the phone that day. 
 

I wish I believed the Coxes cared about Colby, but there wasn’t much evidence of it in the past.  His nonrelatives, the Woodcocks, are probably crushed. They might have been holding on to the idea that at least one good thing had come of the tragedy and that was their relationship with Colby. He looked very sweet with them in court. But he has to be so screwed up by being brought up by LCD, dragged through all of her messes from probably before he was born from what is known of her second marriage and divorce. 

I did mean the Coxes, just my putting myself in their shoes as far as knowing one of my children did evil things, and now their grandson doing something harmful. 

But yes, the Woodcocks too, hurting from seeing Colby doing what he did now.

And the upcoming Netflix on their family. https://www.boisestatepublicradio.org/news/2022-08-30/limited-series-on-lori-vallow-chad-daybell-to-premiere-on-netflix-in-september

Edited by Tacenda
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Charges against Colby were dismissed without prejudice, which means they could be refiled again. No comment given, but would not be surprised if with the wife’s (I believe she was the victim, but this just says a woman he was in a relationship with) agreement (they have been separated for awhile) they agreed to hold off and if he will go to therapy and obeys any restriction placed on him, pays child support, etc (assuming he has a job, iirc he had problems because of reporters getting in the way when the story first broke, then car issues and stuff), they won’t be refiled.  As long as it’s not the woman backing down out of shame, I am not unhappy about him getting another chance. 
 

https://www.eastidahonews.com/2022/09/charges-against-colby-ryan-lori-daybells-son-have-been-dropped-without-prejudice/

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3 hours ago, katherine the great said:

(Spoiler alert…) The Sins of our Mother is on Netflix now. It’s three episodes and Lori Vallow’s mother finally admits that her daughter killed the children (Directly or indirectly I assume) 

How was it?

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30 minutes ago, Calm said:

How was it?

It was good. Colby and his wife were interviewed extensively and Lori’s mother shared a lot of family photos. There were also interviews with the Arizona reporter and Laurie‘s friend from Hawaii (can’t remember her name.) There were a lot of texts that I had never read before and audio recordings of Kolby‘s conversations with her. The Director did a good job of knitting it all together in a logical order. I’m taking care of my mom post surgery right now so I was distracted quite a bit so I’ll probably rewatch it in the next couple of days for anything I missed.

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18 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

It was good. Colby and his wife were interviewed extensively and Lori’s mother shared a lot of family photos. There were also interviews with the Arizona reporter and Laurie‘s friend from Hawaii (can’t remember her name.) There were a lot of texts that I had never read before and audio recordings of Kolby‘s conversations with her. The Director did a good job of knitting it all together in a logical order. I’m taking care of my mom post surgery right now so I was distracted quite a bit so I’ll probably rewatch it in the next couple of days for anything I missed.

Thanks for mentioning it.  I may get to it, may put it off for awhile.  I am trying not to use my brain too much at the moment, lol.

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/14/2022 at 5:52 PM, katherine the great said:

It was good. Colby and his wife were interviewed extensively and Lori’s mother shared a lot of family photos. There were also interviews with the Arizona reporter and Laurie‘s friend from Hawaii (can’t remember her name.) There were a lot of texts that I had never read before and audio recordings of Kolby‘s conversations with her. The Director did a good job of knitting it all together in a logical order. I’m taking care of my mom post surgery right now so I was distracted quite a bit so I’ll probably rewatch it in the next couple of days for anything I missed.

I just got around the watching it and I was surprised that they interviewed Julie Rowe.  The series is respectful to Rowe and doesn't try to make her sound crazy, but she really does come off as crazy.  I think she did the interview with the belief that they thought she had relevant information to share but I think they used her because she's the perfect primary source.  She's open and sincere, and she illustrates the insane beliefs of that segment of people.

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On 9/14/2022 at 5:52 PM, katherine the great said:

... I’m taking care of my mom post surgery right now ...

I know this was quite some time ago, but I hope your mother is healing, and has healed, well.  May I say, warm regards, best wishes, and bounteous blessings to the both of you. :) 

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On 9/14/2022 at 6:12 PM, Calm said:

Thanks for mentioning it.  I may get to it, may put it off for awhile.  I am trying not to use my brain too much at the moment, lol.

Some of us don't have to try to do that! :rofl::D :rofl: (Some brains are more useful than others: I wish mine were in the former camp rather than the latter ... :huh: :unknw:   Oh, well!)

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This is a decent summary of the case, in case, you know, people don't want to wade through 62 pages of the thread (!!!) ( :shok: :blink: :shok: :blink: ) to try to get up to date:
https://www.deseret.com/2022/9/11/23321955/lori-daybell-murder-timeline

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8 hours ago, Calm said:

... I just really hope they stand trial together.

Maybe, but then, potentially, the prosecution faces the problem of proving who did what, each defendant's counsel is able to point fingers at the other defendant (which increases the potential for sowing reasonable doubt as to both defendants), and so on.

https://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/72526-update-on-story-re-missing-kids-daybell/?do=findComment&comment=1210110220

 

Edited by Kenngo1969
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6 hours ago, Calm said:

Very good. The family and witnesses don’t need to go through this twice or have their life  on hold that much longer. 

And Daybell's lawyers know how insane Lori sounds.  I looks like they have a lot more of Lori saying crazy stuff than they do of Chad.  I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to separate the trials so that they could pretend it was all Lori.  Chad doesn't deserve to get off that easily.  They were partners in this, they can do down together.

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