Update on Story Re: Missing Kids (Daybell)

[katherine the great]

51 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

ROFLMREO!!!  Okey-doke!  Thanks for the encouragement: "Not a lawyer" =/= "Not a law school graduate" ...

Then there’s that pesky little bar exam..

[Kenngo1969]

3 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

...  Stay tuned!  I'm looking to see what I can find in Idaho's statutes.

 

2 hours ago, katherine the great said:

I look forward to it! (Now for crying out loud, go to law school already! You should breeze through!)

 

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

ROFLMREO!!!  Okey-doke!  Thanks for the encouragement: "Not a lawyer" =/= "Not a law school graduate" ...

 

33 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

Then there’s that pesky little bar exam..

Yep, you got it, Sister!

[Calm]

Interview with the lawyer of Tylee’s dad, deceased several months before LVD declared she was thinking of murdering him. 
 

 Haven’t watched it yet, assume it will be about her behaviour. Will summarize when I do. 
 

There is some confusion out there. LVD has not been named as a person of interest as the case has not been reopened, they are just reviewing. I doubt they want to reopen unless there is something substantial as that makes their stats worse and ties up resources that could be going to current cases, etc.   If the only reason is LVD’s comments, she is known for flights of fantasy, her story could be all drama for attention. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Calm

[pogi]

33 minutes ago, Calm said:

Haven’t watched it yet, assume it will be about her behaviour. Will summarize when I do. 

Just started watching.  The lawyer makes the claim that "the 2nd person in charge of the Mormon Church" called him to vouch for Lori's authenticity during the custody battle.  This seems unlikely.  Who would that even be?  The 1st Counselor in the first presidency or the President of the Quorum of the 12?  Does she have connections that high up?

I am guessing he was mistaken and that it was someone in the bishopric or stake presidency. 

Tylee recanted claims of abuse, no DNA evidence found on mattress, and she was likely coached.  

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, pogi said:

Just started watching.  The lawyer makes the claim that "the 2nd person in charge of the Mormon Church" called him to vouch for Lori's authenticity during the custody battle.  This seems unlikely.  Who would that even be?  The 1st Counselor in the first presidency or the President of the Quorum of the 12?  Does she have connections that high up?

I am guessing he was mistaken and that it was someone in the bishopric or stake presidency. 

Tylee recanted claims of abuse, no DNA evidence found on mattress, and she was likely coached.  

He probably introduced himself as the 2nd counselor (of either stake or ward) and that stuck in the lawyer’s head.  And he may be saying “the Mormon church” meaning local chapel as opposed to the Church. 

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, pogi said:

Tylee recanted claims of abuse, no DNA evidence found on mattress, and she was likely coached.  

Nothing new then as the court documents (thousands of pages apparently) were sought and then dissected by some bloggers, this info was part of what they found. 

[pogi]

11 minutes ago, Calm said:

And he may be saying “the Mormon church” meaning local chapel as opposed to the Church. 

In his mind at least, it was the 2nd person over the entire church.  This is how he said it:

"The 2nd person in charge of the Mormon Church called me.  No kidding...the 2nd person!  I'm like flabbergasted.  It would be like getting the Pope to call me, or the bishop under the Pope, to call me about some disciple..."

Perhaps he is conflating the position of a Bishop in the Catholic church with a Bishop in our church. 

[Calm]

3 minutes ago, pogi said:

In his mind at least, it was the 2nd person over the entire church.  This is how he said it:

"The 2nd person in charge of the Mormon Church called me.  No kidding...the 2nd person!  I'm like flabbergasted.  It would be like getting the Pope to call me, or the bishop under the Pope, to call me about some disciple..."

Perhaps he is conflating the position of a Bishop in the Catholic church with a Bishop in our church. 

More than likely.  Hopefully this doesn’t lead to thinking she was on the  top leadership’s radar and nothing was done or inflates her standing....which from what she said when going in for a recommend interview, I am thinking she was lacking a recommend and not just renewing, but that might have been simply not getting into the bishop since the move back to Arizona.  Mine is probably out of date, been ignoring it since Covid. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

I am not impressed with this lawyer as he stated he can not understand why experts would believe an outcry from a child this young (3 or 4)..:.too much in defense mode.   Now if he said the language she used was too advance for her age which implies someone coached her, sure... but he was just dismissive of the alleged outcry at all. 

[katherine the great]

59 minutes ago, pogi said:

Just started watching.  The lawyer makes the claim that "the 2nd person in charge of the Mormon Church" called him   

It was probably Alex. Wasn’t he a bit of an actor?

[pogi]

13 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

It was probably Alex. Wasn’t he a bit of an actor?

...with the lack of moral character to back it up. 

Good theory.  I could see that. 

It is weird that they would call his lawyer to vouch for her.  What is that going to do?  Were they trying to persuade the lawyer be an advocate for her instead of his own client, or some weird nonsense like that?   Isn't it the judge who you would want to be calling?

 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, pogi said:

...with the lack of moral character to back it up. 

Good theory.  I could see that. 

It is weird that they would call his lawyer to vouch for her.  What is that going to do?  Were they trying to persuade the lawyer be an advocate for her instead of his own client, or some weird nonsense like that?   Isn't it the judge who you would want to be calling?

 

Makes more sense it was Alex if so, maybe fishing for info on their case. 
 

The lawyer is equating Jeff’s sect with the Church in his head at the point I got to...then phone died. With that and his comment about being “totally amazed” anyone is believing Tylee’s outcry because of her age, he feels rather ‘old school’ to me, but he just mentioned going out to buy books in the Church, so at least that is a good sign...unless he went to an antiMormon store, not unknown in Texas from what I hear. 

[pogi]

52 minutes ago, Calm said:

but he just mentioned going out to buy books in the Church, so at least that is a good sign...unless he went to an antiMormon store, not unknown in Texas from what I hear. 

Very likely antimormon books.  He later states this:

"I got really interested in how different the Mormon faith is from regular Christianity.  I mean they all claim to be Christians, and they appear to be, but their branch, with the Celestial part...that's not Christianity.  This Celestial part is definitely the Mormons.  And I don't disrespect that, but her's...now we look at what Daybell is doing...and it is one step beyond.  It is not what I was reading, it sounds even more...out there."

[Calm]

58 minutes ago, pogi said:

Very likely antimormon books.  He later states this:

"I got really interested in how different the Mormon faith is from regular Christianity.  I mean they all claim to be Christians, and they appear to be, but their branch, with the Celestial part...that's not Christianity.  This Celestial part is definitely the Mormons.  And I don't disrespect that, but her's...now we look at what Daybell is doing...and it is one step beyond.  It is not what I was reading, it sounds even more...out there."

At least he is recognizing it is not the same thing...it is many more than one step however, at least of doctrinal stuff...folklore has gotten out there ar times (generals in heaven...though I wonder how many saw this role as an actual 'physical'/battle over physical or material territory as opposed to how I see it as a struggle for hearts and minds as that is much more important in an eternal sense than just controlling one's location and who is telling one what to do).

The demon possession in terms of possessing the body and pretending to be the person....that is part of the New Age energy healers of the last 20? years I am thinking; how most Saints think of demon possession if they believe it happens is making one sick or allowing them to influence you.  In no way could a demon spirit kick another spirit out of their body.  That seems to be even beyond the New Age stuff as I have only heard of it as demons attaching themselves to people when they give into them, like leaches if I am understanding correctly.  But that isn't justification for killing, so if Daybell wanted to give her that, he had to take it to zombies.  I do wonder if anyone else in the AVOW underground went that route to make it easier to envision fighting a war.

[Calm]

Got 2/3rds through it. Looks like Joe Ryan’s life was pretty much destroyed by this. First, he was well off,  it then spent all this money to unsuccessfully see his daughter. Eventually after he was tased and possibly had damage to his heart, he became what sounds like an alcoholic. Had severe depression. Became homeless for a time.  
 

And he had been found not guilty, but it sounds like the Child Services decided to treat him as an abuser anyway, insisting on short supervised visits...though they may have been concerned that LVD had alienated Tylee and so she would be afraid of him. 

Edited November 14, 2020 by Calm

[katherine the great]

21 hours ago, Calm said:

Got 2/3rds through it. Looks like Joe Ryan’s life was pretty much destroyed by this. First, he was well off,  it then spent all this money to unsuccessfully see his daughter. Eventually after he was tased and possibly had damage to his heart, he became what sounds like an alcoholic. Had severe depression. Became homeless for a time.

It kind of seems like Charles Vallow’s life was on a bad trajectory too (because of Lori). She’s just a toxic person. 
I do wonder about Colby though. He stated confidently that Joseph Ryan sexually abused him-as if he actually remembered it happening. He seemed to really believe that. Of course it’s always possible that Lori planted the idea in his mind when he was young. Unless there’s some thing I missed, that’s probably something that’s going to remain a mystery.

Edited November 15, 2020 by katherine the great
spelling

[Calm]

1 hour ago, katherine the great said:

I do wonder about Colby though. He stated confidently that Joseph Ryan sexually abused him-as if he actually remembered it happening. He seemed to really believe that. Of course it’s always possible that Laurie planted the idea in his mind when he was young.

From what I read from court documents, whatever happened to him whether actual abuse or his mother convincing him, he was exposed to such at a young age and was inappropriate at times with his step brothers...unless that was also LVD trying to cause a wedge between the families so his ex wife would keep her sons away out of concern of what Colby might expose them to (some stuff shared on a cell phone)....if she did use Colby that way, made the court and family think he was a danger when he wasn’t....I hope he realizes it and holds himself blameless. He must be second guessing himself so much now.

Edited November 14, 2020 by Calm

[bsjkki]

 

Custody trial begins.

[Calm]

Lum is posting updates on his FB page for those impatient to wait for end of day summaries:

https://m.facebook.com/jlumfox10/?__cft__[0]=AZXJinIFL3O6XiOnYv7F2cKODytr4n6ChRC9x7uosoFCC3xk4RqXxRtGwwBcZgydIBaXVY-7HT1Mt9lagAnxVCrWyERT1PtEiDnhqB6ea3HQ7Y94NT4Bwl1GISv1DqMDnuP-pDlVLjk1PbdDzPc0-0MC&__tn__=-UC%2CP-R

If I come across the audio link, I will post it, otherwise you need to find it yourself as I am not going to intentionally look for it.

Quote

BOUDREAUX TRIAL - DAY 1 (11/18/20): I'll be... - Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix | Facebook

BOUDREAUX TRIAL - DAY 1 (11/18/20):

I'll be posting updates/notes from the Boudreaux custody trial here throughout the day with timestamps. You'll be able to refresh the page and see the newest information near the top of this post, scroll down the caption for the previous notes if that makes sense. In the comments, I'll post instructions for how to listen in once trial begins.

---------------------

2:26 PM - Pawlowski’s attorney now questioning Boudreaux about allegedly keeping kids away from his ex-wife in Utah. 

2:18 PM - Some back and forth between Scoresby and Boudreaux about his finances and income.

2:03 PM - Hearing is back on. Pawlowski’s attorney is questioning Boudreaux. 

11:09 AM - Update. Parties working on a settlement. Hoping to get it done today. Hearing could continue at 1:30. Looks like financial stuff is being discussed. 

10:25 AM - Break

10:24 AM - Judge will approve the order for joint custody.

10:22 AM - Boudreaux and Pawlowski just stood and took oaths. Judge about to question them.

10:21 AM - Attorney for Pawlowski is referring to Dr. Carol Mellen's evaluation report. She is the clinical psychologist who evaluated Boudreaux and Pawlowski. 

10:18 AM - Monday, 1/4/21 - Phase 2 begins of the joint custody. 

10:16 AM - Phase 1 begins on 12/5/20. Pawlowski will have parenting time that's being specified right now. 

10:15 AM - Pawlowski's supervised parenting time will be 11/20 from 9AM-6PM, 11/29 same schedule, 12/2 after school from 3PM-8PM and same schedule for 12/3. Supervised parenting time on those visits.

10:13 AM - Right now specific agreements on recommendations are being discussed. 

10:11 AM - Resolved legal decision making. Settlement discussions have been taking place. Joint legal decision making restored for Pawlowski and Boudreaux.

10:10 AM - Judge is in court. Here we go. On the record.

10:05 AM - Sounds like parties have come to an agreement, hence the long wait. 

10:00 AM - Heard the name "Crider" mentioned by someone. Brad Crider is Brandon Boudreaux's attorney. Still waiting. 

9:30 AM - Can hear some people talking a bit but not much. Just shows we are living in a COVID-19 world, as we can't be inside seeing why this trial is an hour late.

9:23 AM - Nearly an hour since trial was supposed to begin, no sign of it starting. 

8:51 AM - We are still waiting. Quiet in the courtroom. Not sure what the hold up is.

8:34 AM - Boudreaux trial is about to begin. Some audio testing has been done. We are just waiting now.

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Calm

[Calm]

Can't copy/paste, so hope the screen shot works

 

[Calm]

Quote

3:18 PM - Pawlowski does not believe she owes Boudreaux any child support from 11/1/19 to present because she claims she made attempts to use parenting time. 

3:13 PM - Pawlowski is asked by her attorney about allegations of believing in “zombies”, joining a cult and then confirming Dr. Mellen saying she posed no threat to her kids. She denies believing in the alleged Daybell teachings. 

3:12 PM - List of exhibits being brought out - two affidavits by Det. Ryan Pillar with Gilbert Police. The first says Pawlowski was a person of interest and the second says she is “investigative lead.” 

3:11 PM - Melani Pawlowski is about to testify for the first time. 

3:06 PM - The discussion moves to Pawlowski’s attorney fees and Boudreaux is being asked by his lawyer if she has been forthcoming with the court. He says no. 

2:54 PM - Scoresby says Boudreaux continues to claim Pawlowski is involved in the attempt on his life - when he was shot at in Gilbert. Scoresby confirms there have been no charges filed against Pawlowski. 

2:45 PM - Dr. Mellen concluded that Pawlowski never “abandoned the children” by moving to Idaho. Scoresby reads text from Pawlowski to Boudreaux when she told him she was moving. 

2:40 PM - Scoresby tells Boudreaux that Dr. Mellen determined that Pawlowski is a fit parent. Boudreaux initially answered to a question saying this custody battle was not a waste of time, he did it to “protect his kids.” He did officially agree with the judge this morning that the mental evaluation was in best interest of the kids.

 

[Calm]

Here’s a link to Lum’s twitter:

https://mobile.twitter.com/jlumfox10

 

[Calm]

Nothing relevant to the Daybell case. 
 

Pawlowski says she never called anyone zombies and does not believe that. This may be rebutted as there is a claim there is a witness to her doing this. Other than that, I am not seeing anything of interest right now unless one is interested in custody battles and she said/he said, etc. 

[Kenngo1969]

On 11/13/2020 at 3:41 PM, Calm said:

More than likely.  Hopefully this doesn’t lead to thinking she was on the  top leadership’s radar and nothing was done or inflates her standing....which from what she said when going in for a recommend interview, I am thinking she was lacking a recommend and not just renewing, but that might have been simply not getting into the bishop since the move back to Arizona.  Mine is probably out of date, been ignoring it since Covid. 

Can you do interviews with Bishop(ric) and Stake President(cy) over Zoom?  Might be worth looking into.  Perhaps you should call your Bishop's Executive Secretary to see if something like that could be arranged.  I know our Bishopric has arranged visits (not interviews, but perhaps "six one, half a dozen the other") over Zoom.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Can you do interviews with Bishop(ric) and Stake President(cy) over Zoom?  Might be worth looking into.  Perhaps you should call your Bishop's Executive Secretary to see if something like that could be arranged.  I know our Bishopric has arranged visits (not interviews, but perhaps "six one, half a dozen the other") over Zoom.

In our ward, you can iirc, but I should probably check I am not confusing it with other visits.  It just isn't in my mind right now as  temple trips are out.