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Joseph Smith and Masonry Church video


Calm

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A friend who is a mason brought this to my attention (he approves).  I thought it well done, so sharing it here.

 

Edited by Calm
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Don Bradley wrote that his testimony was revived upon researching the lost 116 pages of the book of mormon and discovering (because Joseph Smith Sr had been interviewed and talked about what was in them, which info survives) that patterns of the temple were there ---- knowing then that the temple rituals preceded any knowledge JS had of Masonry.  

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I enjoyed the video.  It seems strinkingly similar to "Prager University" videos (same animation style, graphics and key text, etc.).

Thanks,

-Smac

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3 hours ago, rpn said:

Don Bradley wrote that his testimony was revived upon researching the lost 116 pages of the book of mormon and discovering (because Joseph Smith Sr had been interviewed and talked about what was in them, which info survives) that patterns of the temple were there ---- knowing then that the temple rituals preceded any knowledge JS had of Masonry.  

Did Don explain how Don knew what JS did not know and when JS didn't know it?

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1 hour ago, CA Steve said:

Did Don explain how Don knew what JS did not know and when JS didn't know it?

But JS did know what is in the 116 pages and he had scribes who also knew.   Mr. Bradley didn't claim that there is evidence of everything about the temple ordinance, just an obvious temple pattern in those missing 116 pages of the book of mormon, reported by those scribes and Joseph Smith Sr. to others before the temple ordinances began to be offered in Nauvoo.

 

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25 minutes ago, rpn said:

But JS did know what is in the 116 pages and he had scribes who also knew.   Mr. Bradley didn't claim that there is evidence of everything about the temple ordinance, just an obvious temple pattern in those missing 116 pages of the book of mormon, reported by those scribes and Joseph Smith Sr. to others before the temple ordinances began to be offered in Nauvoo.

 

Perhaps I misunderstood what you said.

5 hours ago, rpn said:

Don Bradley wrote that his testimony was revived upon researching the lost 116 pages of the book of mormon and discovering (because Joseph Smith Sr had been interviewed and talked about what was in them, which info survives) that patterns of the temple were there ---- knowing then that the temple rituals preceded any knowledge JS had of Masonry

I inferred that you meant Don was pointing out that the temple patterns were revealed in the 116 pages and that was before JS had "any knowledge of Masonry". Is that not accurate?

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5 hours ago, smac97 said:

I enjoyed the video.  It seems strinkingly similar to "Prager University" videos (same animation style, graphics and key text, etc.).

Thanks,

-Smac

They are very digestible. :)  Fast enough info without ‘clutter’, something pleasing for the eye but not distracting to the message, pleasant and appropriate (in terms of drama level) voice.  Treats the viewer as intelligent.

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6 hours ago, rpn said:

Don Bradley wrote that his testimony was revived upon researching the lost 116 pages of the book of mormon and discovering (because Joseph Smith Sr had been interviewed and talked about what was in them, which info survives) that patterns of the temple were there ---- knowing then that the temple rituals preceded any knowledge JS had of Masonry.  

Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I think it is relevant to the topic here. Joseph Smith definitely had some knowledge of Masonry in the 1820s. His brother Hyrum was a Mason in Palmyra, and Palmyra was in the midst of the Anti-Masonry movement in the 1820s, so it is pretty much guaranteed that he had at least a basic understanding of it.

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8 hours ago, smac97 said:

I enjoyed the video.  It seems strinkingly similar to "Prager University" videos (same animation style, graphics and key text, etc.).

Thanks,

-Smac

I was about to make the same observation. I like the animation style, and I do enjoy the Prager U videos. 

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Have a friend who used to be a member, he converted for his now ex wife, he's also a freemason.  According to him, the endowment ceremony was pretty much identical to the entered apprentice degree in freemasonry.  Of course that all changed around 2000/2001 (I think?)  when they changed the endowment ceremony.  I never understood why anyone cares, everyone has some sort of ritual that may look like someone else's, big deal who cares.  Some Protestants keep Catholic traits, Catholicism ripped off old pagan holidays to a degree so  the way I see it someone almost always borrows from someone. 

Think something else not a lot of people nowadays may know, freemasonry used to be such an integral component of communities back in the day.  Lots of churches worked hand in hand with lodges to help out the community.  Wasn't until late that things changed.  It bothers be a bit to be honest, even the Missouri and Wisconsin synod of Lutheranism are staunchly anti-freemason, anti enough to where the members pull similar things American Catholics do with spite.  Know a guy who's Catholic inlaws won't even let him in their home because he's a freemason, now lots of other Christian orgs here stateside are pulling similar nonsense, it's ridiculous.  Christianity is struggling to hang on in this country and despite what they may say part of the reason millenials have no interest is the entitlement, nastiness and well, stuff like this.

At least the Latter Day Saints are cool with freemasons, was over 10 years ago they elected a BYU law grad to be the Grand Master of masons for the state of Utah.  I like stuff like this.

https://www.deseret.com/2008/3/29/20079121/a-mormon-mason-new-grand-master-is-the-first-in-a-century-who-is-lds#glen-cook-the-137th-grand-master-of-freemasonry-in-utah-stands-on-the-stage-of-the-main-auditorium-at-the-masonic-temple-in-downtown-salt-lake-city

 

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18 hours ago, InCognitus said:

 

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There are these so called Masonic items in every culture and nation throughout history predating the historical records of masonry.

Stating Joseph got the endowment from Masonry is ignorant at this point.  Stating masonry influenced him is more accurate.  

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22 hours ago, poptart said:

According to him, the endowment ceremony was pretty much identical to the entered apprentice degree in freemasonry.  Of course that all changed around 2000/2001 (I think?)  when they changed the endowment ceremony.

 

This isn't true now, nor has it ever been true. There are *elements* of the endowment that are essentially identical to *elements* of Freemasonry, including the entered apprentice degree, but the endowment ceremony and the entered apprentice degree themselves are not even close to being "pretty much identical" overall. Not even close. 

For the record, I speak as someone who is intimately and personally familiar with the endowment and the three degrees of blue lodge Freemasonry. 

Edited by DispensatorMysteriorum
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20 hours ago, DispensatorMysteriorum said:

This isn't true now, nor has it ever been true. There are *elements* of the endowment that are essentially identical to *elements* of Freemasonry, including the entered apprentice degree, but the endowment ceremony and the entered apprentice degree themselves are not even close to being "pretty much identical" overall. Not even close. 

For the record, I speak as someone who is intimately and personally familiar with the endowment and the three degrees of blue lodge Freemasonry. 

That's why i said according to him, i have no idea what the endowment ceremony entails nor have the desire some seem to have to know.  I figure to each their own, if it does your members good more power to you, keep being awesome to eachother.

 

Same, intimately acquainted with the blue lodge degrees, SR too. 

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There are certain elements of the endowment that are identical to elements of Masonic rites, but the narrative of the endowment doesn't really have anything to do with Masonry and is clearly based on the Bible.

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On 12/20/2019 at 7:59 PM, InCognitus said:

Some of the bodies during the Christian era were clothed in textiles that were previously unused, indicating a specific burial dress.  This is probably not unusual in and of itself.  But here is where it gets interesting:

 

On 12/21/2019 at 2:17 PM, JLHPROF said:

There are these so called Masonic items in every culture and nation throughout history predating the historical records of masonry.

Stating Joseph got the endowment from Masonry is ignorant at this point.  Stating masonry influenced him is more accurate.  

This is a very interesting discovery and one that clearly connects to the temple.  The clothing worn by the candidate during a masonic degree does bear a resemblance to temple garments however, there is no stitching in masonic clothing.  This Egyptian find resembles temple garments far more than the clothing in a masonic degree.    A good friend of mine and I are both Past Masters of our lodge and endowed members of the church.  We often discuss the similarities and deeper meanings of both the endowment and masonic degrees.  Having experienced both degree work and the endowment on a regular basis the similarities are obvious.  Joseph Smith was clearly inspired by Freemasonry to restore the temple endowment.  The fascinating part of both experiences for me however is not the obvious similarities in tokens, obligations, and penalties, but rather the deeper meanings behind them and other elements of the endowment and lodge degree experiences.  

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I found this Masonic prayer at https://online.ucpress.edu/nr/article-pdf/4/1/28/317830/nr_2000_4_1_28.pdf

My Brethren, the roll of the workmen has been called, and one Master Mason
has not answered to his name.

He has laid down the working tools of the Craft and with them he has left that
mortal part for which he no longer has use. 

His labors here below have taught him to divest his heart and conscience of the
vices and superfluities of life, thereby fitting his mind as a living stone for 
that spiritual building - that house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Strengthened in his labors here by faith in God, and confident of expectation of
immortality, he has sought admission to the Celestial Lodge above.

Amen

Masonry teaches the Celestial Lodge is the hope for muslims, hindus, bahais,
who don't accept Jesus as Savior.

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The Temple and Endowment are quite complete and evidenced throughout the Book of Mormon.  See especially John Welch, Illuminating the Sermon at the Temple and the Sermon on the Mount.  And further work since then, for example, here:

http://www.templestudiesgroup.com/Papers/Temple_Welch.pdf

At greater length here:

http://www.templestudies.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/MormonismAndTheTemple.pdf

That conference has YouTube videos available.

And it goes further than that if we notice that many key discourses in the Book of Mormon are delivered at the Temple and/or demonstrate key temple themes.  For instance, Gordon Thomasson recounted that it was in comparing their Ancient Near Eastern temple studies to Alma 12-13 that opened Nibley's eyes to the presence of the temple in the Book of Mormon.  Benjamin's discourse is at the temple and, for instance, and Jacob speaks as an anointed temple priest, and in 3 Nephi Jesus comes to the Temple.  So many LDS scholars, from Welch, to Legrand Baker, D. John Butler, Alyson Von Feldt, M. Catherine Thomas, and yours truly (for example, my essay in Glimpses of Lehi's Jerusalem) have written extensively on this.  And what is interesting in the development of LDS scholarship is that those who focus on comparisons between the Nauvoo Endowment and Masonry, and postulating a disconnect between the Book of Mormon and developments in Nauvoo, (notably, an oft reprinted Sunstone essay, the influential "The Reconstruction of Mormon Doctrine") completely missed all of this, quite frankly, because of a tendency to look to Masonry comparisons, rather than, the Temple.  Don Bradley also sees elements of the Endowment as Ascent in the First Vision.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

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26 minutes ago, Kevin Christensen said:

Don Bradley also sees elements of the Endowment as Ascent in the First Vision.

Indeed he does, and his most recent book, The Lost 116 Pages, goes into further detail regarding the Book of Mormon and the temple. He demonstrates, to my complete convincing, that the translation process of the Book of Mormon was itself a temple experience after the fashion of the ancient Israelite temple in which the Nephites worshiped. After that he illustrates how the temple runs through the surprisingly Jewish plates of Lehi. 

What fruit can grow when the seed lands on good ground!

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On 12/20/2019 at 2:35 PM, mapman said:

Sorry if I'm being nitpicky, but I think it is relevant to the topic here. Joseph Smith definitely had some knowledge of Masonry in the 1820s. His brother Hyrum was a Mason in Palmyra, and Palmyra was in the midst of the Anti-Masonry movement in the 1820s, so it is pretty much guaranteed that he had at least a basic understanding of it.

I have a few friends that are LDS and also Masons and have known them for over 40 years. Yet, simply because I know them should not be an indication of my understanding or knowledge of Masonry; that would be a faulty assumption. I suspect the same for Joseph. He may have known Masons, but that relationship should not cause one to assume he had any knowledge or degree of understanding of Masonry at that point. 

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5 hours ago, TheTanakas said:

Masonry teaches the Celestial Lodge is the hope for muslims, hindus, bahais,
who don't accept Jesus as Savior.

I think that is beautiful.  Thanks to the restoration and proxy work, they indeed have hope!

What do you teach?  Are they hosed?

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On 12/20/2019 at 12:59 PM, rpn said:

But JS did know what is in the 116 pages and he had scribes who also knew.   Mr. Bradley didn't claim that there is evidence of everything about the temple ordinance, just an obvious temple pattern in those missing 116 pages of the book of mormon, reported by those scribes and Joseph Smith Sr. to others before the temple ordinances began to be offered in Nauvoo.

According to Don Bradley's The Lost 116 Pages, Joseph Smith Sr. told Fayette Lapham in 1830 that the cover of the gold plates had "masonic elements" on them, at least a compass and square and most likely sun, moon, and stars as well. The interpreters, described as "three cornered diamonds" by Lucy Mack Smith, also plausibly resembled the compass and square. The interpreters were referred to as a "key" and laid on top of the plates, corresponding to the symbols on the front cover, and thus formed the seal of the plates. This prefigures the sealing ordinances, restored through Joseph Smith, in which the symbolism of compass and square plays so prominent a part. Joseph Jr.'s parents are the only sources which speak of Masonic symbolism on the plates, so far as I am aware, though other elements of their descriptions of the plates were attested by Harris, Whitmer, and Charles Anthon (referring to the etching of the plates which Harris presented to him.) See Bradley, The Lost 116 Pages: Reconstructing the Book of Mormon's Missing Stories, pp. 20-34 and 47-52.  

These findings reorient the debate regarding the relationship between the Restored gospel and Masonry. The theory that Joseph Smith co-opted Masonry into the church in the second half of his ministry is no longer tenable. It is clear that the astronomical and compass/square symbolism which we associate with Masonry (though in ancient times it has been found in other religious contexts, including early Christianity) has been part of Joseph Smith's prophetic ministry since the beginning. In my opinion this bifurcates the field of possibilities. I will state that my opinion is also influenced by my personal opinion that Joseph Smith Jr. did not have the necessary skills, as a metallurgist or glazier, to counterfeit the interpreter spectacles and breastplate, nor the resources to hire someone to do it for him. Nor do I find the idea of group hallucination credible. Nevertheless, the possibilities as I see them are as follows:

1. Joseph Sr. and Lucy Mack were just lying about their empirical observations of the gold plates and interpreters. 

2. The ancient artifacts did in fact bear the emblems of the modern temple, which strengthens the case of the antiquity thereof. 

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