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Bring ye all the ​​​tithes​ into the storehouse


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10 hours ago, Duncan said:

and the couches!!!!!!!!!!!! blech. I know of two Stakes that built their own chapels, with no knowledge from SLC, they just pooled their own money and built it themselves

That's crazy.  :lol:

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14 hours ago, JAHS said:

Right they are called Worship Service and come on just before Music and the Spoken Word on Sunday mornings.
This is back when the ladies all made their own dresses with the big Bibs on the front

Unfortunately, that was 80s style and you could buy those dresses at Sears and JC Penny.  :lol:

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12 hours ago, Duncan said:

and the couches!!!!!!!!!!!! blech. I know of two Stakes that built their own chapels, with no knowledge from SLC, they just pooled their own money and built it themselves

Sometimes I wonder if you test us to see how gullible we are. :)  

Is this something that occurred in Canada or somewhere else and how long ago?

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3 minutes ago, Calm said:

Sometimes I wonder if you test us to see how gullible we are. :)  

Is this something that occurred in Canada or somewhere else and how long ago?

this was in Raymond or McGrath, I can't recall and the other was in the 1970's in LA-incidentally that building teh SP who orchestrated it later became a GA

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1 hour ago, Duncan said:

this was in Raymond or McGrath, I can't recall and the other was in the 1970's in LA-incidentally that building teh SP who orchestrated it later became a GA

70's....reminds me of the big debate our ward had then (probably 72 or 73) over whether to renovate or tear down.  My dad, a mechanical engineer, was so annoyed that a perfectly good building got torn down when in his view it was good for at least another 30 years.  We lost the wall of windows and went to the tomb style.  I think it too bad they didn't save the chapel and just rebuild the classrooms for more functionality.

Anyway, seems like there was a lot of very local involvement still, so I can see that as realistic...hey, we don't need to bother SL on this since we have the capability to take care of it ourselves.

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1 hour ago, Calm said:

70's....reminds me of the big debate our ward had then (probably 72 or 73) over whether to renovate or tear down.  My dad, a mechanical engineer, was so annoyed that a perfectly good building got torn down when in his view it was good for at least another 30 years.  We lost the wall of windows and went to the tomb style.  I think it too bad they didn't save the chapel and just rebuild the classrooms for more functionality.

Anyway, seems like there was a lot of very local involvement still, so I can see that as realistic...hey, we don't need to bother SL on this since we have the capability to take care of it ourselves.

I mean really, with the hoy faloy of involving SLC with someone else's regulations that may or may not be applicable to the local situation, just build it yourselves already. I think it was in the Elder McConkie bio that he said somewhere in S. America there is a Chapel that has the front door in the back and there is this small narrow walkway up against a brickwall (IIRC) so it's not conducive to lots of foot traffic, basically they build the chapel in the wrong direction,but someone had approved this in SLC🤔

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14 minutes ago, Duncan said:

I mean really, with the hoy faloy of involving SLC with someone else's regulations that may or may not be applicable to the local situation, just build it yourselves already. I think it was in the Elder McConkie bio that he said somewhere in S. America there is a Chapel that has the front door in the back and there is this small narrow walkway up against a brickwall (IIRC) so it's not conducive to lots of foot traffic, basically they build the chapel in the wrong direction,but someone had approved this in SLC🤔

The Calgary building was built in the H shape of California style where every room has a window, which was great in the summertime, but freezing in the winter in the back classroom...didn't help that when they poured the slab the cement apparently crushed the heating vents for half of the back classrooms.  I taught in one of them, kids kept their coats on.  Junior primary, so sometimes I'd bring a thick blanket and we would sit in a snuggly circle to avoid the cold metal chairs.

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3 hours ago, Duncan said:

this was in Raymond or McGrath, I can't recall and the other was in the 1970's in LA-incidentally that building teh SP who orchestrated it later became a GA

I know of the very same thing happening in the White Mountains of Arizona 30 years ago

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3 hours ago, Calm said:

70's....reminds me of the big debate our ward had then (probably 72 or 73) over whether to renovate or tear down.  My dad, a mechanical engineer, was so annoyed that a perfectly good building got torn down when in his view it was good for at least another 30 years.  We lost the wall of windows and went to the tomb style.  I think it too bad they didn't save the chapel and just rebuild the classrooms for more functionality.

Anyway, seems like there was a lot of very local involvement still, so I can see that as realistic...hey, we don't need to bother SL on this since we have the capability to take care of it ourselves.

We went to a church building in Bountiful that was in a U shape with classrooms on both sides of the U. The ward was growing and they needed more classroom space so instead of tearing the building down and building a new one they just extended the back end of the building so it was now in an O shape and added more classrooms at the back end.  

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4 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

Nice! Good call.

Isaiah 58 clearly indicates fast offerings are for the poor and needy.  D&C clearly indicates tithing is not for charity use.

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2 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Isaiah 58 clearly indicates fast offerings are for the poor and needy.  D&C clearly indicates tithing is not for charity use.

I’m redigging into the issue finding the sources (I may be mistaken on D&C). Here is one of the earliest sources on tithing, JST Genesis 14:

38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes for the poor.
39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.

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25 minutes ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

I’m redigging into the issue finding the sources (I may be mistaken on D&C). Here is one of the earliest sources on tithing, JST Genesis 14:

38 Him whom God had appointed to receive tithes for the poor.
39 Wherefore, Abram paid unto him tithes of all that he had, of all the riches which he possessed, which God had given him more than that which he had need.

That may be the case historically.  It may also be a historical anomaly.  Scripture from all dispensations describe tithing to be used to support building the Church of the day and the support of its leadership.  It is different from donations to the poor.

 But the commandments concerning tithing in this dispensation are the ones that apply to us.

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13 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That may be the case historically.  It may also be a historical anomaly.  Scripture from all dispensations describe tithing to be used to support building the Church of the day and the support of its leadership.  It is different from donations to the poor.

 But the commandments concerning tithing in this dispensation are the ones that apply to us.

The connection I was remembering to D&C is actually the connection between the collection of surplus properties as defined in 119 (tithing) and 42 (consecration). Both sections demand the collection of surplus properties. 119 says for paying debts and laying the foundation of Zion, and 42 says that the surplus goes to the storehouse for the care of the poor. The JST Gen. 14 was received months after section 42 and uses a similar concept of surplus and collection for the poor. The close date of the revelation and  translation is how I had put the two together in my mind. Honestly, I think that’s a valid connection.

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19 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

That may be the case historically.  It may also be a historical anomaly.  Scripture from all dispensations describe tithing to be used to support building the Church of the day and the support of its leadership.  It is different from donations to the poor.

 But the commandments concerning tithing in this dispensation are the ones that apply to us.

It’s also worth noting in the connection I’ve  explained above, JS thought of consecration as a form of tithing. See his 1832 letter to Phelps:

“It is conterary to the will and commandment of God that those who receive not the inherttenc [inheritance] by consecration agree[a]ble to his law which he has given that he may tithe his people to prepare them against the day of vengence and burning should have there names enrolled with the people of God.” 

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1 hour ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

 and 42 says that the surplus goes to the storehouse for the care of the poor. 

But verse 37 clarified which poor the surplus is to aid:

37 And it shall come to pass, that he that sinneth and repenteth not shall be cast out of the church, and shall not receive again that which he has consecrated unto the poor and the needy of my church, or in other words, unto me

Any tithing paid into the storehouse for the poor (not used for running the Church as in 119) is specifically for the poor and needy of the Church.

So again we can see there is nowhere where tithing is to be paid out to those poor and needy outside the Church.  Tithing is paid to God, and remains within his Church.  The Church has no obligation to pay from tithing funds to any people outside the Church.

Fast offerings are intentionally alms for the poor.  They are used for that purpose according to the true law of the fast.

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4 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

But verse 37 clarified which poor the surplus is to aid:

37 And it shall come to pass, that he that sinneth and repenteth not shall be cast out of the church, and shall not receive again that which he has consecrated unto the poor and the needy of my church, or in other words, unto me

Any tithing paid into the storehouse for the poor (not used for running the Church as in 119) is specifically for the poor and needy of the Church.

So again we can see there is nowhere where tithing is to be paid out to those poor and needy outside the Church.  Tithing is paid to God, and remains within his Church.  The Church has no obligation to pay from tithing funds to any people outside the Church.

Fast offerings are intentionally alms for the poor.  They are used for that purpose according to the true law of the fast.

That’s a fair point about the revelation’s wording. Good debate!

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