Bring ye all the ​​​tithes​ into the storehouse

[Benjamin Seeker]

In light of the recent discussion on tithing and it being the holiday season, I wanted to start a discussion on what reasonable minds would put on their tithing-related Christmas wish-list.

Here is what’s on mine:

I would like to see more local humanitarian aid. For example, how cool would it be if certain chapels ran a soup kitchen or something like that? Lots of poor non-Mormon and Mormon hungry souls could be helped. 

I would love to experience more beautiful places to worship. Our chapels are generally uninspiring imho, partly due to economizing.

Custodians! ; ) Actually, I don’t mind cleaning the chapel at all. I find it’s meaningful service.

 

 

 

[Calm]

4 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

I would like to see more local humanitarian aid. For example, how cool would it be if certain chapels ran a soup kitchen or something like that? Lots of poor non-Mormon and Mormon hungry souls could be helped

Only in areas there aren’t any. Otherwise better to back up others’ established efforts in order to get the most resources to the community and possibly help a charity that is struggling rather than just insert ourselves into the scene without regard to existing long term volunteers. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

I would like to see expanded educational opportunities for lower income members, especially long term ones. Maybe scholarships to BYU or closer schools of second generation youth or expand the PEF to nonmembers who are good candidates for the pay it back in approach. (I think the requirement to give back helps with sense of self and dignity.)

Rather than beautify chapels, money could be used for more musical training of choristers and organists and perhaps workshops for choirs to increase enjoyment in those areas.  And help make full use of the new hymn book when it comes. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by Calm

[rchorse]

What I would like to see among the calls for more humanitarian aid is recognition of the massive humanitarian aid that is already being provided through the fast offering and bishops' storehouse programs. The focus seems to always be on the roughtly $40 million in donations from the humanitarian aid fund and how small that is in comparison to the wealth of the church.

But the church welfare programs, including fast offerings and the storehouses, provide a lot of very local humanitarian aid. The church provides very large amounts of food at no cost to those in need. Those large land holdings, cattle ranches, and farms that are often brought up as evidence of the church's wealth and hoarding are actively producing the food that goes to the needy.

[Metis_LDS]

3 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

In light of the recent discussion on tithing and it being the holiday season, I wanted to start a discussion on what reasonable minds would put on their tithing-related Christmas wish-list.

Thank you for the topic.  My tithing-related Christmas wish-list is Nothing, nothing at all.  Why do I say this?  Speaking only for myself looking back on 46 years of membership my greatest personal source of unhappiness has been projecting my desires, wishes whatever you would call wanting the Church and the membership to be different.  Let everyone make there own choices.  For myself the evidence is clear the less desires I project on the Church the more peaceful I am. Peace is now a precious thing for me,  I crave it.

[rodheadlee]

3 hours ago, rchorse said:

What I would like to see among the calls for more humanitarian aid is recognition of the massive humanitarian aid that is already being provided through the fast offering and bishops' storehouse programs. The focus seems to always be on the roughtly $40 million in donations from the humanitarian aid fund and how small that is in comparison to the wealth of the church.

But the church welfare programs, including fast offerings and the storehouses, provide a lot of very local humanitarian aid. The church provides very large amounts of food at no cost to those in need. Those large land holdings, cattle ranches, and farms that are often brought up as evidence of the church's wealth and hoarding are actively producing the food that goes to the needy.

My wife worked at a store house for a while and massive amounts of food went through there. We figure about $30,000 a month conservatively. 30000 x 3174 Stakes equals 95 million a month and some change. It'd be interesting to know what the true figures are. I myself am proud of everything the church does with their finances. I'm glad to be able to be a part of it.

[Prof]

4 hours ago, Metis_LDS said:

  For myself the evidence is clear the less desires I project on the Church the more peaceful I am. Peace is now a precious thing for me,  I crave it.

^This is one of the most profound things I read in a very long time!

[rpn]

Most church members do not know how close to bankruptcy the church was within the recent past.   I, for one, want our leaders to be fully listening to their inspiration and doing exactly what they are inspired to do with anything members donate.  (And I think the paid building cleaning generated a rich/poor (the type of job if not financially) feeling in many church buildings.  It made taking care of the building a them issue, instead of an us problem.)

And the Worldwide Pathway program does provide low cost education around the world to members.

Edited December 19, 2019 by rpn

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

In light of the recent discussion on tithing and it being the holiday season, I wanted to start a discussion on what reasonable minds would put on their tithing-related Christmas wish-list.

Here is what’s on mine:

I would like to see more local humanitarian aid. For example, how cool would it be if certain chapels ran a soup kitchen or something like that? Lots of poor non-Mormon and Mormon hungry souls could be helped. 

I would love to experience more beautiful places to worship. Our chapels are generally uninspiring imho, partly due to economizing.

Custodians! ; ) Actually, I don’t mind cleaning the chapel at all. I find it’s meaningful service.

 

 

 

Our Church buildings are not built with the abilities to support “soup kitchens”, even though we have “kitchens” in our buildings, they are not meant to be used for cooking meals, only for heating, and supporting limited functions for feeding members, and then only on special occasions. We also do not have have dinning facilities by the same nature, nor full time staff to support such functions. The Church does however,  certainly has the money and means to create such facilities, but we do feed 10,000’s of families weekly through our Bishop Storehouses, throughout the world. Here in the Atlanta area, we fill 1,000’s of meal orders at many different Chapels, so that all are not required to drive to the Bishop’s Storehouses. Many volunteer to pick up these orders and then transport them weekly to designated buildings, or also pick them up and deliver them to those who cannot do so for themselves. I know first hand, as I did for so many years, and friends who are now retired, who fill these orders, drive them via commercial trucks to these many designated chapels, every single week. We do this for both members and non-members, we also deliver many goods to other charities who feed the poor, again weekly. 

[JAHS]

9 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

For example, how cool would it be if certain chapels ran a soup kitchen or something like that? Lots of poor non-Mormon and Mormon hungry souls could be helped. 

Many have wondered why we don't do this, but we do volunteer to serve at many of the existing soup kitchens and donate lots of food and other resources to them. 
I think the organizations already running homeless programs and soup kitchens would like to keep things the way they are; accepting donations and volunteer service from the Church, rather than having the Church come in and take over that particular area of community service. 

[pogi]

I think it would be great to see more social enterprises/business started with some of these funds that address basic unmet needs or social problems such as in health care and other areas through a market driven approach, where the profits are principally used to fund social programs.

A few examples:

Quote

Grameen Bank, which makes small loans to the poor for small business development and other uses. Since its inception in the 1970s, Grameen has provided $10 billion in loans to more than 10 million people, and has proven the need and viability for financial services to the poor. Grameen received the Nobel Peace Prize in 2006 as a reflection of its efforts and success.

Greyston provides the homeless employment in a bakery that makes brownies for Ben & Jerry’s ice cream. As Greyston says, “we don’t hire people to bake brownies, we bake brownies to hire people.”

D.Light designs affordable solar-powered devices that provide an option to people that lack access to reliable energy sources. In its eight-year history, D.Light has sold more than 10 million solar lamps, improving the lives of 50 million people.

Dispensary of Hope aggregates prescription medications that are nearing their expiration date and redistributes these drugs to free clinics in low-income communities. Clinics pay Dispensary of Hope a monthly subscription fee that covers basic expenses, and drug manufacturers save money by avoiding costs associated with destroying expired products.

TerraCycle upcycles packaging and other non-recyclable consumer waste, keeping it out of landfills and turning it into new products. Today, Terracycle has established a recycling network of more than 31 million consumers and 100 major corporate brand partnerships, resulting in more than 3 billion units of garbage averted from landfills and transformed into new, 100% recycled products.

Benetech develops and uses technology to create positive social change. One of Benetech’s signature programs is Bookshare, the largest literacy resource for people with disabilities. Before Bookshare, only 5% of printed materials were accessible to people with disabilities. Today,

Bookshare’s more than 330,000 subscribers have access to more than 300,000 titles in a variety of accessible formats.

Warby Parker partners with VisionSpring to enable access to affordable prescription glasses to people in developing countries who are otherwise functionally blind. They do this by selling fashionable eyewear to customers in developed markets, and making a contribution for each pair sold. So far, this partnership has distributed nearly 2.5 million pairs of glasses to those in need.

It would be great to see the perpetual education fund expanded on a much larger scale. 

Edited December 19, 2019 by pogi

[ksfisher]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

For example, how cool would it be if certain chapels ran a soup kitchen or something like that? Lots of poor non-Mormon and Mormon hungry souls could be helped. 

Where do you live.  In Salt Lake City the church actually supports almost all of soup kitchens/emergency food pantries in the downtown area.

Running a soup kitchen is actually a huge undertaking, lots of health regulations and code.  Even just handing out food it a full time job.  Many local churches here have done something similar, only to find out that the time needed by congregation members is too much.  Others do very well over a long time though.

11 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

I would like to see more local humanitarian aid.

Donate more to the fast offering and humanitarian aid fund.  Simple solution.

 

11 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

Custodians! ; ) Actually, I don’t mind cleaning the chapel at all. I find it’s meaningful service.

Agreed.  I think this helps the members of the ward take ownership for the building as well as providing opportunities to serve.

Edited December 19, 2019 by ksfisher

[bluebell]

11 hours ago, Benjamin Seeker said:

In light of the recent discussion on tithing and it being the holiday season, I wanted to start a discussion on what reasonable minds would put on their tithing-related Christmas wish-list.

Here is what’s on mine:

I would like to see more local humanitarian aid. For example, how cool would it be if certain chapels ran a soup kitchen or something like that? Lots of poor non-Mormon and Mormon hungry souls could be helped. 

I would love to experience more beautiful places to worship. Our chapels are generally uninspiring imho, partly due to economizing.

Custodians! ; ) Actually, I don’t mind cleaning the chapel at all. I find it’s meaningful service.

 

 

 

I'd rather the church continue to support those soup kitchens that are already up and running.  That would be the best use of funds.  Where that doesn't exist though, that could be an idea.  But I agree with beautifying chapels.  I know they are unadorned so that nothing replaces our focus on the Savior but come on!  They are often so uninspiring.  Even the lighting.  

[Calm]

24 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I'd rather the church continue to support those soup kitchens that are already up and running.  That would be the best use of funds.  Where that doesn't exist though, that could be an idea.  But I agree with beautifying chapels.  I know they are unadorned so that nothing replaces our focus on the Savior but come on!  They are often so uninspiring.  Even the lighting.  

Oh that brings to mind a favorite longtime wish...invest money in more comfortable pews and chairs.  Easier to be inspired when not in pain.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Calm

[smac97]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

Only in areas there aren’t any. Otherwise better to back up others’ established efforts in order to get the most resources to the community and possibly help a charity that is struggling rather than just insert ourselves into the scene without regard to existing long term volunteers. 

Years ago I took a tour of Welfare Square in Salt Lake.  I was accompanying a large group of lawyers and judges, who had gathered in Provo for BYU's "Law & Religion Symposium."  Part of the tour included looking at the Church's food production and distribution efforts.  The symposiu attendees were pretty impressed, but one of them asked whether the Church had soup kitchens.  The senior missionary conducting the tour said no, but that the Church regularly donates food to various soup kitchens run by other organizations (including, IIRC, the Catholics).

Thanks,

-Smac

[gopher]

Are there any areas of your life where the church doesn't already try to help?  There are multiple programs for education, employment, physical fitness, socializing, ministering, as well as family services, welfare assistance, self reliance classes, programs for youth, full time missionary service which provides valuable experience for future employment, singles wards which increase the likelihood of finding a spouse, etc.

If I were a critic, I'd be complaining the church does too much to help.  How are we going to raise the next generation of bootstrappy members if the church takes care of most of our needs?

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, Attalus said:

Theatre seating, maybe?  With or without cup holders?  At least some kind of recliner, right?  Maybe rocking chairs with cushions?

Zero gravity chairs...ar least a row of them or two depending on how old the population, assigned by need to ensure the kids don't use them as a playground.    Some quiet slider rockers assigned to the parents with babies and maybe the hyperactive kids.

No cup holders, that is just tacky.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Calm

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, Attalus said:

I was thinking of how some churches have pews that have cup holders for the sacrament cups, but it is probably best to just put them back into the trays when we are finished with them.

I wonder how the seats are in the Conference Center.  Individual seats I think rather than pew type seating but how soft or fancy are they?  Maybe a variety of types of seating would be best, pews for families with small children, chairs for adults, and rocking chairs and zero-gravity type chairs up front on both sides of the pews.  We might need to hire an interior decorator to make it look nice while being more functional than we have now.

Memory says the seats at the CC were pretty comfortable, but my tailbone wasn't whining back then.

Edited December 19, 2019 by Calm

[pogi]

20 minutes ago, Calm said:

Zero gravity chairs...ar least a row of them or two depending on how old the population, assigned by need to ensure the kids don't use them as a playground.    Some quiet slider rockers assigned to the parents with babies and maybe the hyperactive kids.

No cup holders, that is just tacky.

9 minutes ago, Attalus said:

I was thinking of how some churches have pews that have cup holders for the sacrament cups, but it is probably best to just put them back into the trays when we are finished with them.

I wonder how the seats are in the Conference Center.  Individual seats I think rather than pew type seating but how soft or fancy are they?  Maybe a variety of types of seating would be best, pews for families with small children, chairs for adults, and rocking chairs and zero-gravity type chairs up front on both sides of the pews.  We might need to hire an interior decorator to make it look nice while being more functional than we have now.

I have a hard enough time staying awake as it is much of the time...

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

I have a hard enough time staying awake as it is much of the time...

We can still keep a couple of rows of hard wooden, feet don't touch the ground for half of us so legs go numb pews or even metal chairs for those who need that kind of help.

[topcougar]

I would like the church to continue what they are doing. $100 billion in a rainy day fund is a really good start.  I think they need enough money, food and supplies to run the church for ten years. 

[pogi]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

We can still keep a couple of rows of hard wooden, feet don't touch the ground for half of us so legs go numb pews or even metal chairs for those who need that kind of help.

I might need that kind of help...but I don't want it.  I'd be sure and arrive early to get the reclining chairs every time!

[Anonymous Mormon]

I always understood that money from tithing went to further the Church's mission of saving souls. Specifically, this was done through temples, churches, scriptures, missionary efforts, etc. Separate from this is fast offerings and humanitarian. If I understand it correctly, that is what is taught and practiced by the leaders.

I wonder if that is why this $100B surplus exists, because the money is only ear-marked for things related to building the kingdom and the need hasn't been there as much, so they have put excess away as savings?

If the church started to give a percentage of its tithing money to other causes (humanitarian, etc.), what is the correct amount? When does it distract from the primary objective of the church in bringing saving ordinances to the world? Any non-profit can feed, shelter, and clothe, the needy and I donate time and money to other non-profits to accomplish this. But I give to the church specifically because I want to further the Lord's work of getting others His covenants.

[The Nehor]

I want the tiered theater seating with the electronically controlled recliners. Some of those are very nice.

More seriously I am happy with the way things are. I am okay with the church’s balance staying big. Show me a person who cannot see a decent or large sum of money in an account without feeling uncomfortable and I will show you someone who will probably always be living paycheck to paycheck. I am not condemning the attitude as a moral failing. The psychology behind it often comes from lifelong scarcity.  
 

22 minutes ago, Anonymous Mormon said:

I always understood that money from tithing went to further the Church's mission of saving souls. Specifically, this was done through temples, churches, scriptures, missionary efforts, etc. Separate from this is fast offerings and humanitarian. If I understand it correctly, that is what is taught and practiced by the leaders.

I wonder if that is why this $100B surplus exists, because the money is only ear-marked for things related to building the kingdom and the need hasn't been there as much, so they have put excess away as savings?

If the church started to give a percentage of its tithing money to other causes (humanitarian, etc.), what is the correct amount? When does it distract from the primary objective of the church in bringing saving ordinances to the world? Any non-profit can feed, shelter, and clothe, the needy and I donate time and money to other non-profits to accomplish this. But I give to the church specifically because I want to further the Lord's work of getting others His covenants.

This is my response to those who want the church to run more charitable operations. There are literally thousands and thousands of organizations meeting these needs. We are the only organization that can offer saving ordinances and the complete gospel. We would be guilty of dereliction of duty if we left that ministry to “wait tables”. We must and should do what we can individually and collectively to help in the other mission but not to the detriment of our primary mission.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, rpn said:

And the Worldwide Pathway program does provide low cost education around the world to members.

Which is absolutely fantastic, but I enjoy the idea of some of those dedicated souls being given the opportunity of attending the university in person.