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"Send us more immigrants!", says Utah


bdouglas

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/trump-gave-states-the-power-to-ban-refugees-conservative-utah-wants-more-of-them/2019/12/02/d8de7b00-1085-11ea-a533-90a7becf7713_story.html

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SALT LAKE CITY — Apiel Kuot had survived war, sexual assault and life — first as an orphan, then as a single mother — in an east African refugee camp. But Utah terrified her.

She would never be welcome there, others in the camp had told her when she learned she would be resettled 9,000 miles away in a place where her black skin could mark her as an unwanted outsider. White people, she was warned, would try to steal her young children.

“I was so scared,” the 28-year-old recounted. Then she laughed. Three years on from her arrival, “life is beautiful. Utah is a wonderful place, the best place in the world for me.”

 

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On 12/4/2019 at 3:40 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Forgive me, but why? More legal, more illegal, anyone, everyone? 

If the governor is asking the president to send more it is pretty much legal almost by definition unless it conflicts with some federal law (unlikely).

On 12/3/2019 at 1:44 PM, Jake Starkey said:

Good on Ms. Kuot and all other immigrants who are trying their best to fit in and succeed.

We only like “the good ones”.

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On 12/6/2019 at 8:06 PM, Jake Starkey said:

I only "like" good Mormons or Baptists or Republicans, etc.

 

Is this satire, or are you serious? I love all peace loving people, and do not care where their country of origin is, including my closest neighbor from Argentina. I would trust him with my life, and he would trust me with his I would think, since I have helped his family many times. Both financially, and helping him insure his home is wired safely, well my sons, under my direction. I donated his stove, and when I need it, he cares for my yard, I pray him despite his objections. If he won’t take the money, my wife slips it to his wife. 

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6 hours ago, rodheadlee said:
On 12/4/2019 at 2:40 PM, Bill “Papa” Lee said:

Forgive me, but why? More legal, more illegal, anyone, everyone? 

Have you ever been out west Papa? We have plenty of room out here space is not a problem.

America is NOT a bottomless ATM machine.  Many of the illegals have been organized by international organizations, provided with air-conditioned bus rides from Guatemala to the border (in 3 days), given instructions on what "code words" to use and to apply for free medical care and enrollment on welfare and housing.

This is unsustainable.  America already has 22 TRILLION dollar debt.  See https://www.ourpursuit.com/how-a-20-trillion-national-debt-affects-you-and-how-to-start-fixing-it/?gclid=CjwKCAiA58fvBRAzEiwAQW-hzT4w9wpRUZ_h-8yPAeYcgUlkJrKmqK12x7CYeMjfNnoWHp0Ojx6ehhoCypMQAvD_BwE

"For one, needless spending wastes tax dollars today, while committing future taxpayers to pay back our debt tomorrow. According to the independent Congressional Research Service (CRS), “deficit financing tends to crowd out greater levels of private investment in better economic conditions,” thus impacting American jobs. CRS continues: “Such debt eventually must be repaid, either through spending reductions, tax increases, or combination of the two, and may also generate crowding out that could reduce future economic productivity.”

Increasing debt also leads to rising interest costs, which contributes directly to total debt without providing any benefits or services to the American taxpayer. When the Federal government runs a deficit, it borrows the difference from creditors which include private citizens, businesses, and foreign governments. These creditors get paid an interest on their investment. In 2015, the U.S. spent over $200 billion, or 6 percent, of the Federal budget servicing interest on the debt. Save for entitlement and benefit programs, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that interest on our national debt will be the largest budget item in 2024, costing $800 billion. In practical terms, this means future generations will be forced to pay taxes for the overspending committed by current generations, rather than investments in homeland security or infrastructure in their day.

Massive accumulating debt provides more money for Congress to spend now, at the cost of economic growth and opportunity of future generations. According to CRS, “a growing Federal debt could place a high burden on future generations and hinder economic growth. Rapid growth of Federal debt could also increase the probability of a financial crisis or fears of a sovereign default.” There should be no mistake, Washington’s fiscal negligence is dramatically affecting opportunities for coming generations.

In fact, we’re already seeing a decline in incomes for young Americans in the United States today. According to the U.S. Census, young Americans are making about $2,000 less, on average, than their parents did when they were young. CBO, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), and even the past Obama Administration all agree that the current set of fiscal policies will lead to an unsustainable debt burden if left unchanged."

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And yet antiimmigration laws and enforcement are costing the nation at least 3.3 billion in lost revenue in one year due to not having enough workers to harvest foods.  If you are concerned about costs, laws promoting and protecting those who provide us our food at low costs seem to me to be of high priority.

https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/sites/default/files/resources/NAWS data factsht 10-18-18.pdf

https://www.fb.org/issues/immigration-reform/agriculture-labor-reform/economic-impact-of-immigration

Quote

Agriculture needs anywhere from 1.5 -2 million hired workers.

Labor costs account for 48 percent of the variable production costs for fresh fruits and 35 percent of variable costs for fresh vegetables.

The current labor situation is most acute for delicate berries and easily bruised produce. Harvesting costs for strawberries, blackberries and cherries account for about 60% to 66% of total production costs, making labor the primary harvest expense. People are needed to judge which fruit are ready to be picked and which need to be left to ripen....

At least 50-70 percent of farm laborers in the country today are unauthorized. Few U.S. workers are willing to fill available farm labor jobs. 

Challenges of the H-2A Program

72 percent of growers reported that workers arrived on average of 22 days after the “date of need.”

The program provides less than 4 percent of the hired workers needed in agriculture.

Entering into the H-2A program has been found to increase the obstacles that farmers face in order to hire and maintain employees. Only 8 percent of employers report that they were audited before they participated in the H-2A program, but 35 percent report being audited since entering the program.

An NCAE survey found that 47 percent of employers were “not at all satisfied” or only “slightly satisfied” with the H-2A program.

Farmers and even professional H-2A agents are routinely forced to hire lawyers to help them get through the process successfully.

Labor Impacts on Imports

A PNAE study found that when comparing the two year periods between 1998-2000 and 2010-2012, the share of fresh produce consumed in America that was imported rose by 73.9 percent.

Without an adequate supply of labor American farmer are at a competitive disadvantage. Americans ate 6.6 billion more pounds of imported fresh fruits and vegetables in 2010-2012 than they ate from 1998-2000.

The farm labor shortage explains as much as $3.3 billion in missed GDP growth in 2012. It also accounts for $1.3 billion in farm income that wasn’t realized that year.

Had U.S. growers not faced labor challenges—and been able to maintain the share of fresh produce they provided to the domestic market from 1998-2000— America would have boasted more than 89,000 more jobs in 2012. American GDP would have grown by almost $12.4 billion in 2012 and produced almost $4.9 billion more in annual farm revenues.

Almost 75 percent of that $12.4 billion in GDP growth would have been due to increased economic activity in the non-farm parts of the economy that year.

 

 

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20 hours ago, longview said:

America is NOT a bottomless ATM machine.  Many of the illegals have been organized by international organizations, provided with air-conditioned bus rides from Guatemala to the border (in 3 days), given instructions on what "code words" to use and to apply for free medical care and enrollment on welfare and housing.

This is unsustainable.  America already has 22 TRILLION dollar debt.  See https://www.ourpursuit.com/how-a-20-trillion-national-debt-affects-you-and-how-to-start-fixing-it/?gclid=CjwKCAiA58fvBRAzEiwAQW-hzT4w9wpRUZ_h-8yPAeYcgUlkJrKmqK12x7CYeMjfNnoWHp0Ojx6ehhoCypMQAvD_BwE

"For one, needless spending wastes tax dollars today, while committing future taxpayers to pay back our debt tomorrow. According to the independent Congressional Research Service (CRS), “deficit financing tends to crowd out greater levels of private investment in better economic conditions,” thus impacting American jobs. CRS continues: “Such debt eventually must be repaid, either through spending reductions, tax increases, or combination of the two, and may also generate crowding out that could reduce future economic productivity.”

Increasing debt also leads to rising interest costs, which contributes directly to total debt without providing any benefits or services to the American taxpayer. When the Federal government runs a deficit, it borrows the difference from creditors which include private citizens, businesses, and foreign governments. These creditors get paid an interest on their investment. In 2015, the U.S. spent over $200 billion, or 6 percent, of the Federal budget servicing interest on the debt. Save for entitlement and benefit programs, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that interest on our national debt will be the largest budget item in 2024, costing $800 billion. In practical terms, this means future generations will be forced to pay taxes for the overspending committed by current generations, rather than investments in homeland security or infrastructure in their day.

Massive accumulating debt provides more money for Congress to spend now, at the cost of economic growth and opportunity of future generations. According to CRS, “a growing Federal debt could place a high burden on future generations and hinder economic growth. Rapid growth of Federal debt could also increase the probability of a financial crisis or fears of a sovereign default.” There should be no mistake, Washington’s fiscal negligence is dramatically affecting opportunities for coming generations.

In fact, we’re already seeing a decline in incomes for young Americans in the United States today. According to the U.S. Census, young Americans are making about $2,000 less, on average, than their parents did when they were young. CBO, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), and even the past Obama Administration all agree that the current set of fiscal policies will lead to an unsustainable debt burden if left unchanged."

I get that. My trade was hugely impacted by illegal immigration. Loss of benefits due to breaking the union hold on residential construction, willingness to work for cheaper  wages and flooding the trade with unqualified workers. Never the less we should accept refugees from war torn countries. It's our duty as Christians. Ironically I am an economic refugee south of the border. I work in California and live in Mexico. I live by do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

Edited by rodheadlee
cursor jumping bean
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6 hours ago, Calm said:

And yet antiimmigration laws and enforcement are costing the nation at least 3.3 billion in lost revenue in one year due to not having enough workers to harvest foods.  If you are concerned about costs, laws promoting and protecting those who provide us our food at low costs seem to me to be of high priority.

https://www.farmworkerjustice.org/sites/default/files/resources/NAWS data factsht 10-18-18.pdf

https://www.fb.org/issues/immigration-reform/agriculture-labor-reform/economic-impact-of-immigration

This is a long standing problem.  Too many sectors in the economy take advantage of migrants willing to work for a pittance, provide no medical coverage, build inadequate shacks and allow only seasonal employment.  Thus forcing the American public to take on the greater burden for care of displaced workers.  Which amounts to $150 BILLION dollars per year drained by various government agencies.  But this is not the only burden.  We have  numerous reports of uninsured drivers who are not held accountable (even drunk drivers).  It is common for sanctuary cities and states to shield them from prosecution (and even to keep them out of reach of ICE agents).  Add the costs for prison space, burdens on the education system, disruptions of economic opportunities for disadvantaged minorities who are legal citizens, and so many others.  The cumulative costs is enormous.

It would be much more cost effective to expand the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations.  Promote training for free enterprise zones in whichever countries need them.  Impose sanctions on kleptocracies and oppressive governments (i.e. Yasser Arafat kept billions of dollars of graft  in some secret Swiss bank account when it was supposed to go to the "Palestinians"). 

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20 hours ago, longview said:

America is NOT a bottomless ATM machine.  Many of the illegals have been organized by international organizations, provided with air-conditioned bus rides from Guatemala to the border (in 3 days), given instructions on what "code words" to use and to apply for free medical care and enrollment on welfare and housing.

This is unsustainable.  America already has 22 TRILLION dollar debt.  See https://www.ourpursuit.com/how-a-20-trillion-national-debt-affects-you-and-how-to-start-fixing-it/?gclid=CjwKCAiA58fvBRAzEiwAQW-hzT4w9wpRUZ_h-8yPAeYcgUlkJrKmqK12x7CYeMjfNnoWHp0Ojx6ehhoCypMQAvD_BwE

"For one, needless spending wastes tax dollars today, while committing future taxpayers to pay back our debt tomorrow. According to the independent Congressional Research Service (CRS), “deficit financing tends to crowd out greater levels of private investment in better economic conditions,” thus impacting American jobs. CRS continues: “Such debt eventually must be repaid, either through spending reductions, tax increases, or combination of the two, and may also generate crowding out that could reduce future economic productivity.”

Increasing debt also leads to rising interest costs, which contributes directly to total debt without providing any benefits or services to the American taxpayer. When the Federal government runs a deficit, it borrows the difference from creditors which include private citizens, businesses, and foreign governments. These creditors get paid an interest on their investment. In 2015, the U.S. spent over $200 billion, or 6 percent, of the Federal budget servicing interest on the debt. Save for entitlement and benefit programs, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that interest on our national debt will be the largest budget item in 2024, costing $800 billion. In practical terms, this means future generations will be forced to pay taxes for the overspending committed by current generations, rather than investments in homeland security or infrastructure in their day.

Massive accumulating debt provides more money for Congress to spend now, at the cost of economic growth and opportunity of future generations. According to CRS, “a growing Federal debt could place a high burden on future generations and hinder economic growth. Rapid growth of Federal debt could also increase the probability of a financial crisis or fears of a sovereign default.” There should be no mistake, Washington’s fiscal negligence is dramatically affecting opportunities for coming generations.

In fact, we’re already seeing a decline in incomes for young Americans in the United States today. According to the U.S. Census, young Americans are making about $2,000 less, on average, than their parents did when they were young. CBO, the Government Accountability Office (GAO), and even the past Obama Administration all agree that the current set of fiscal policies will lead to an unsustainable debt burden if left unchanged."

The material by organized convoys of caravans is an assertion.  Let's have some real objective, informed sources.

We are a nation of immigrants, legal and not, which is not going to change.

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10 hours ago, longview said:

This is a long standing problem.  Too many sectors in the economy take advantage of migrants willing to work for a pittance, provide no medical coverage, build inadequate shacks and allow only seasonal employment.  Thus forcing the American public to take on the greater burden for care of displaced workers.  Which amounts to $150 BILLION dollars per year drained by various government agencies.  But this is not the only burden.  We have  numerous reports of uninsured drivers who are not held accountable (even drunk drivers).  It is common for sanctuary cities and states to shield them from prosecution (and even to keep them out of reach of ICE agents).  Add the costs for prison space, burdens on the education system, disruptions of economic opportunities for disadvantaged minorities who are legal citizens, and so many others.  The cumulative costs is enormous.

It would be much more cost effective to expand the Peace Corps and other volunteer organizations.  Promote training for free enterprise zones in whichever countries need them.  Impose sanctions on kleptocracies and oppressive governments (i.e. Yasser Arafat kept billions of dollars of graft  in some secret Swiss bank account when it was supposed to go to the "Palestinians"). 

They are going to come, just like the ancestors of all Americans, whether they come legally or not.

That is the reality.

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4 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

The material by organized convoys of caravans is an assertion.  Let's have some real objective, informed sources.

Have you forgotten the mass caravans that were in the news for the past couple of years?  By the thousands and tens of thousands?  There were many reports by the dominant media of buses and trains and other transports to facilitate the movement of these groups.  It should not take much effort on your part to discover many foundations, churches and activist groups that are combining to overwhelm our porous borders.  Read up on Pueblo Sin Fronteras.

4 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

They are going to come, just like the ancestors of all Americans, whether they come legally or not.

That is the reality.

In the old days, officers on Ellis Island did not promise welfare and free housing to the immigrants.

The reality is the nation has a right to select who to admit based on their health, willingness to honor the Constitution, employable skills, etc.  The reality today is certain business interests want cheap labor and other interests want ready-made leftist oriented voters.

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58 minutes ago, longview said:

Have you forgotten the mass caravans that were in the news for the past couple of years?  By the thousands and tens of thousands?  There were many reports by the dominant media of buses and trains and other transports to facilitate the movement of these groups.  It should not take much effort on your part to discover many foundations, churches and activist groups that are combining to overwhelm our porous borders.  Read up on Pueblo Sin Fronteras.

Are these porous borders overwhelmed because of the people arriving at them, or because the regulatory and legislative framework governing them is a hodgepodge of sometimes contradictory, restrictive, and nonsensical policies? I'm pretty convinced by the evidence I've seen in my own work that the CBP and USCIS could easily absorb, process, and either settle or return these caravans with relative ease if the right regulatory framework and distribution of resources was in place.

58 minutes ago, longview said:

In the old days, officers on Ellis Island did not promise welfare and free housing to the immigrants.

Homestead Act.

58 minutes ago, longview said:

The reality is the nation has a right to select who to admit based on their health, willingness to honor the Constitution, employable skills, etc.

This is true. The good news is that the "Health Immigrant Effect" is a thing, and a transparent, relatively easy, and timelier immigration process would select for people who are employable, law-abiding, and healthy. Even under the current system, immigrant use less public services, and have generally lower crime rates than the native-born population (except for their children, who seem to assimilate into crime-committing Americans like the rest of them!). Also, many want to become citizens, and a process that facilitates that would likely reap the benefits. Recent work out of Weber State University has shown restrictivist policies decrease the naturalization rate even among greencard holders.

58 minutes ago, longview said:

The reality today is certain business interests want cheap labor and other interests want ready-made leftist oriented voters.

Should government policies enact protectionist and anti-free market provisions to artificially raise wages? Are immigrants naturally inclined and ready-made to vote for left-wing parties, or is this the eventual product of nativist parties excluding newcomers from participating in their end of the political spectrum? In fact, a difference/indifference study has shown Conservative parties with relatively open stances towards welcoming newcomers see an equal distribution of newcomer votes across the political spectrum. The post-Reagan GOP in the immediate aftermath of his presidency showed a relative high number of gains from immigrant communities, given his policies towards granting amnesty to undocumented immigrants, modernizing the greencard system, and implementing the modern refugee resettlement scheme.

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4 hours ago, longview said:

Have you forgotten the mass caravans that were in the news for the past couple of years?  By the thousands and tens of thousands?  There were many reports by the dominant media of buses and trains and other transports to facilitate the movement of these groups.  It should not take much effort on your part to discover many foundations, churches and activist groups that are combining to overwhelm our porous borders.  Read up on Pueblo Sin Fronteras.

In the old days, officers on Ellis Island did not promise welfare and free housing to the immigrants.

The reality is the nation has a right to select who to admit based on their health, willingness to honor the Constitution, employable skills, etc.  The reality today is certain business interests want cheap labor and other interests want ready-made leftist oriented voters.

The reality is that what the nation does bases on what the civilians will allow the government to do, and scores if not hundreds of millions of Americans are saying, "nope, nuh uh, we are not going to do it the nativists way."

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4 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

The reality is that what the nation does bases on what the civilians will allow the government to do, and scores if not hundreds of millions of Americans are saying, "nope, nuh uh, we are not going to do it the nativists way."

Do you think those same people would want the 22 TRILLION dollar national debt to continue to explode out of control?  Will they sit still as the annual service of the debt will soon become the largest item on the national budget?  Won't they fear that the annual interest payment that is approaching 800 BILLION dollars will inevitably lead to hyperinflation?

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