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The Matthew Gong Letter


pogi

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7 hours ago, sunstoned said:

Yes you can. Christ was teaching the Jews.  The Jews believed in the OT, so he used stories from it.  Christ also taught in parables  Parables are also allegoric.

So you think he didn’t believe their scriptures/law/God and was just giving them lip service to convert them?  That would be terribly deceptive and manipulative of him.  He clearly didn’t view the Hebrew God as allegorical.  He didn’t view the prophecies about himself as allegorical, as he taught “this day is this scripture fulfilled.”  He clearly validated the law when he said that he came to fulfill it and not destroy it...

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14 hours ago, pogi said:

So you think he didn’t believe their scriptures/law/God and was just giving them lip service to convert them?  That would be terribly deceptive and manipulative of him.  He clearly didn’t view the Hebrew God as allegorical.  He didn’t view the prophecies about himself as allegorical, as he taught “this day is this scripture fulfilled.”  He clearly validated the law when he said that he came to fulfill it and not destroy it...

No more deceptive that teaching by parables. Jesus was a teacher, and he taught using what resonated with the local people. 

All I know is the fantastic, not possible, crazy, ruthless, genocidal things that are attributed to god in the OT  are not true, and could never be true.  The stories about the Greek and Roman are as believable as the stories found in the OT.

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On 11/26/2019 at 1:08 PM, pogi said:

Interesting that this talk was given the same year that the book Miracle of Forgiveness was published (1969), and is remarkably of the same stiff and hard-handed tone.  Given the times and emerging culture, I can see why their way of life felt threatened as they felt a need to lay down the law.  In retrospect, Kimball wishes that he would have used a gentler tone and focused more on forgiveness than repentance and sin.  The only people who I think get anything from these types of guilt/shame laden talks are those who are already following the rules and feel vindicated over the sinners.  But for those who were struggling and looking for empathy and compassion as they work through their issues towards redemption and forgiveness, this type of tone was divisive and polarizing and sucks the light of hope right out of them.  It built the obedient up in pride, and tore the sinner down in shame - causing some to be more judgmental, and on the flip side more rebellious.   That is not what we want to see for the obedient or sinner.  While I agree that Elder Petersen was a great man, I don't think his tone in this talk is needed today.  Indeed, we have intentionally distanced ourselves from the Miracle of Forgiveness approach and tone.  We have learned, improved, progressed, and we are in a better place now.  I hope we never go back to that era and style.


 

And yet these are still being recommended to the youth of today, even by young Bishops in their 30's. For better or worse, once published,  texts have a life of their own.

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