The Churches of Asia

[Jracforr]

When Abraham left Harran in Mesopotamia, he took with him several converts who shared his religious beliefs. He obviously was what we would call today, an evangelical preacher, and the founder of a Church based on a new religion based on his experience with God. This " Church of Abraham" made up of family members and converts, would eventually become the nation of Israel. 

This transition from church to nation, would seem to suggest that the , Seven Churches of Asia, noted in the Book of Revelations in the era of Christ, are themselves Christian nations, created from converts following the  Day of Pentecost. These nation/churches are todays Colonial powers in Western Europe, who have been given " Talents"

to use wisely or abusively, and reap the attendant consequences. 

[Jracforr]

The Churches of Asia in their new location. 
Ephesus- Portugal 
Smyrna- France
Pergamos- Belgium 
Thyatira- Germany
Sardis- Czech Republic 
Philadelphia - Switzerland 
Laodiceans- Italy 

Every Church that is ordained of God eventually become a nation, first spiritual then temporal. The LDS will become one of seven nations in the future.

[The Nehor]

Did you just pick those at random? You say they tie to colonial powers but the Czech Republic made the list but not Spain? Switzerland but not the British?

So how do you link Ephesus to Potugal? The seven cities are in what is now Turkey and the colonialism of the Ottomans did not make the cut? Really?

The idea that a bunch of people from cities in Asia Minor somehow migrated off and created nations in areas with preexisting populations is pretty silly. Where are the cultural links?

[Jracforr]

"The idea that a bunch of people from cities in Asia Minor somehow migrated off and created nations in areas with preexisting populations is pretty silly. Where are the cultural links? " 

The same historic process that caused Europeans to migrate to North America, bringing their cultural roots with them, also propelled the inhabitants of the MiddleEast to migrate to Europe.  The various tribes converted to Christianity on the Day of Pentecost,  form the core of the Europen nations. 

The ordained churches always become nations, and so will the LDS church, the varied ethnic elements in this church, will easily replecate the the seven churches in North America, and God will decide which ones will receive "talents" and which will not. 

 

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Jracforr said:

The ordained churches always become nations,

Please demonstrate this rather than just assert. Also provide evidence for this group migration rather than just assert it. 

[Jracforr]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Please demonstrate this rather than just assert. Also provide evidence for this group migration rather than just assert it. 

Abraham was a preacher, whose converts and family departed the city of Harran, and settled in the Jordan River Valley, with the assurance that a nation would arise of his offspring . The result is the nation of Israel.

The ministry of Christ proclaimed it's followers would become, Kings and Priest. 

The Pilgrims of New England, were simply members of the Puritan faith who by the hand of providence, created a nation, after having " Emigrated " from their home in England.

The Church is where we are fed the elementry principles of the gosple ie Milk, following which we are expected to become Judges in Zion. 

The Mormon refugees were directed to a region in   Kansas City Missouri, and told it is the Zion of God , this city is the geographic equivalent of Basel in Switzerland,  a place of refuge from Europe's wars and turmoil. The same assurance is given that this "New Zion" will someday serve as a refuge in America's looming chaos. 

Jesus assured his disciples and converts that his kingdom, would not be in the world of the Mid-East, where rulers would arise, having no power from his countenance,  but rather in a new world to come.

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Jracforr said:

"The idea that a bunch of people from cities in Asia Minor somehow migrated off and created nations in areas with preexisting populations is pretty silly. Where are the cultural links? " 

The same historic process that caused Europeans to migrate to North America, bringing their cultural roots with them, also propelled the inhabitants of the MiddleEast to migrate to Europe.  The various tribes converted to Christianity on the Day of Pentecost,  form the core of the Europen nations. 

The ordained churches always become nations, and so will the LDS church, the varied ethnic elements in this church, will easily replecate the the seven churches in North America, and God will decide which ones will receive "talents" and which will not. 

 

That does not establish a link. That is just an assertion.

It also ignores churches that did not become nations. When Alma and Amulek taught and converted the Zoramites they formed a church and they were all killed except Amulek. What nation was formed? The implication in the Book of Revelation is that the same thing would happen to those churches (martyrdom) so how would they form a nation?

[Jracforr]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

That does not establish a link. That is just an assertion.

It also ignores churches that did not become nations. When Alma and Amulek taught and converted the Zoramites they formed a church and they were all killed except Amulek. What nation was formed? The implication in the Book of Revelation is that the same thing would happen to those churches (martyrdom) so how would they form a nation?

I can only suggest you do some research on the matter yourself and enlighten me on your findings when they contradict my assertions. 

 

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, Jracforr said:

I can only suggest you do some research on the matter yourself and enlighten me on your findings when they contradict my assertions. 

 

Not how it works on this board.  You make an assertion, you have to support it with something more than other assertions.

[Jracforr]

What if I told you that Civilization repeats itself, and the events of the past are repeated in our era, would you not rightly claim that to be an unsubstantiated assertion, yet it is true, however you can  know by doing some research of your own. Two or three heads are better than one, you tell me what you discover and I will do the same for you.You may use the pattern of migration from Europe to  North America as a guide in your quest to find how the Churches of Asia became seven nations in Europe.

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, Jracforr said:

I can only suggest you do some research on the matter yourself and enlighten me on your findings when they contradict my assertions. 

 

I think I am a magical tortoise from one of the rings of Saturn that dances amongst the moons in a tutu. Enlighten me when you find anything that contradicts my assertion.

[JamesBYoung]

 

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I think I am a magical tortoise from one of the rings of Saturn that dances amongst the moons in a tutu. Enlighten me when you find anything that contradicts my assertion.

That is a fallacy of assertion without support.

It is also a fallacy of false equivalency to Jraccfor's unsupported assertion.

 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, JamesBYoung said:

 

That is a fallacy of assertion without support.

It is also a fallacy of false equivalency to Jraccfor's unsupported assertion.

 

First statement is correct.

Second statement is false. Both his colonization assertion and my tortoise are equally supportable by the facts.

[Jracforr]

  Geography may help to clarify this problem, if there are any who can see the similarity. The geographic equivalent of TURKEY in the Mid-East, is ENGLAND in Europe. We are all aware that English Protestants created new colonies in North America, after fleeing persecution and discrimination in their homeland.

This same process would have occurred in Turkey / Asia Minor, in the Christian Era, wherein  Seven Churches of Christian converts would eventually flee to Europe seeking a better life and escaping persecution from the established churches. 

I will even make an additional assertion, that our ancient ancestors from the Indian  Subcontinent, also sought refuge in Mesopotamia from persecution in their native land.

[Calm]

36 minutes ago, Jracforr said:

The geographic equivalent of TURKEY in the Mid-East, is ENGLAND in Europe.

Why?

[Jracforr]

Because the worlds geography is designed by a creator who chooses to repeat his not so obvious pattern, more than once across the globe. If you can believe it there are four distinct geographic world system upon our globe. It is what it is, wether we see or understand it.

 

[Jracforr]

On 12/12/2019 at 1:05 PM, The Nehor said:

That does not establish a link. That is just an assertion.

It also ignores churches that did not become nations. When Alma and Amulek taught and converted the Zoramites they formed a church and they were all killed except Amulek. What nation was formed? The implication in the Book of Revelation is that the same thing would happen to those churches (martyrdom) so how would they form a nation?

Lehi's church produce a civilization that lasted a thousand years, did it not. Alma was a product of that Civilization, so Lehi, the Puritans, Abraham, Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus , they all created new civilization following a period of enlightenment and tribulation. It simply mean, god select the best of a bad lot  and make stars of whom he deem worthy and dispose of those he thinks unworthy,  as might have been the case with the Zoramites, we can't say for sure.

[The Nehor]

11 minutes ago, Jracforr said:

Lehi's church produce a civilization that lasted a thousand years, did it not. Alma was a product of that Civilization, so Lehi, the Puritans, Abraham, Buddha, Mohammed and Jesus , they all created new civilization following a period of enlightenment and tribulation. It simply mean, god select the best of a bad lot  and make stars of whom he deem worthy and dispose of those he thinks unworthy,  as might have been the case with the Zoramites, we can't say for sure.

We can’t say for sure in any of these cases. There is no evidence the righteous of Ephesus all went to Portugal but you are still baselessly asserting it.

[JamesBYoung]

4 hours ago, The Nehor said:

First statement is correct.

Second statement is false. Both his colonization assertion and my tortoise are equally supportable by the facts.

Sure

 

[Calm]

3 hours ago, Jracforr said:

Because the worlds geography is designed by a creator who chooses to repeat his not so obvious pattern, more than once across the globe. If you can believe it there are four distinct geographic world system upon our globe. It is what it is, wether we see or understand it.

 

Okay.  Then please explain why England is a repeat of Turkey.

[Jracforr]

When you have some time, take an Atlas and compare the nations in the Mid-East with those in Europe and see if  understand pattern  I indicate here. 

Turkey - England 

Syria and Israel - France 

Egypt - Spain

They are the geographic equivalent of each other, and in their long history, they have similar function in their respective domains. This is just a small example of how the worlds physical and human geography repeat itself across the globe. If you don't see and similarity, just let it be.

 

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Jracforr said:

When you have some time, take an Atlas and compare the nations in the Mid-East with those in Europe and see if  understand pattern  I indicate here. 

Turkey - England 

Syria and Israel - France 

Egypt - Spain

They are the geographic equivalent of each other, and in their long history, they have similar function in their respective domains. This is just a small example of how the worlds physical and human geography repeat itself across the globe. If you don't see and similarity, just let it be.

 

No, they really don’t. The Gallic tribes, the court of Charlemagne, and Napoleon’s French empire are analogous to what in Syria and Israel?

Turkey is not an island and their feud with Greece is represented by English feuds with who? Iceland? Greenland?

The Seleucid dynasty and Spain under Carthage? The Ottoman Empire and the Reconquista? The British protectorate and Franco’s fascist state? No, you have to reach way too far for comparisons.

[Jracforr]

It takes time, but you will eventually understand it, good luck.

[The Nehor]

10 hours ago, Jracforr said:

It takes time, but you will eventually understand it, good luck.

I have already wasted too much time.

[JamesBYoung]

Far too much time.