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1 hour ago, Tacenda said:

My good friend takes Adderall for Narcolepsy and another drug for severe restless syndrome. But refuses to take CBD, I guess it comes with a stigma or something but not harmful like the meth in Adderall and her other drug, crazy! I love her to bits, but she won't go there yet. Maybe she'll give in like Bernard Gui did, way to go @Bernard Gui, I hope it works for as long as possible. 

I have issues with almost anything big pharm puts out, but do understand there are needed drugs too.  

The current issue with CBD oil is it is not regulated in such a way you can guarantee the amount of drug you are getting with each dose.  Once marijuana becomes legal and sources are better supervised, I have no problem with trying them.  Given sensitivities to drugs, if you are using something for medicinal purposes, it is wise to be sure exactly what you are getting.

Some supplements even go so far as to add actual drugs into them or lack what they claim to include.  Thankfully there are labs now that test for such things and can give recommendations, but they have no power to regulate.  And since they aren't constantly retesting, there is no guarantee for consistency for a particular supplement.  And I have noticed companies tend to be very inconsistent across their products as they can be highly recommended for one thing and rejected for another.

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NO.  D&C 89: 10 And again, verily I say unto you, all wholesome herbs God hath ordained for the constitution, nature, and use of man— 11 Every herb in the season thereof, and every

All drugs have side effects,  including CBD.   The rules mean pharmaceutical companies have to tell you about them - informed consent - whereas the herbal supplement folks don't have too.   And just b

I’d way sooner use a non addictive non street , all natural no harm CBD over any narcotic or highly addictive traditional pain med opiate.  I for the life of me cannot make sense of the idea that

29 minutes ago, Calm said:

The current issue with CBD oil is it is not regulated in such a way you can guarantee the amount of drug you are getting with each dose.  Once marijuana becomes legal and sources are better supervised, I have no problem with trying them.  Given sensitivities to drugs, if you are using something for medicinal purposes, it is wise to be sure exactly what you are getting.

Some supplements even go so far as to add actual drugs into them or lack what they claim to include.  Thankfully there are labs now that test for such things and can give recommendations, but they have no power to regulate.  And since they aren't constantly retesting, there is no guarantee for consistency for a particular supplement.  And I have noticed companies tend to be very inconsistent across their products as they can be highly recommended for one thing and rejected for another.

Exactly!  That is the risk when you deal with herbals.  Not only is there no way to guarantee the dosage, or if you are even getting what you pay for at all, but often times unregulated herbals are tainted with very harmful products.  It was not long ago that around 30 people were hospitalized in Utah due to tainted CBD oil.  I posted the link in a different thread a while back.

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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My good friend takes Adderall for Narcolepsy and another drug for severe restless syndrome. But refuses to take CBD, I guess it comes with a stigma or something but not harmful like the meth in Adderall and her other drug, crazy! I love her to bits, but she won't go there yet. Maybe she'll give in like Bernard Gui did, way to go @Bernard Gui, I hope it works for as long as possible. 

I have issues with almost anything big pharm puts out, but do understand there are needed drugs too.  

I don't mean to bug in, but there is a newer drug approved for narcolepsy she might try. It supposedly has less side effects. It is Modafinil. A lot of anecdotal reports also indicate Modafinil helps concentration, and even helps students get better grades. She might try talk talking to her doctor about it. It works differently. It is not really a direct stimulant to increase dopamine or norepinephrine, but is thought to reduce a chemical called gamma-aminobutyric acid that slows the brain down.

Edited by RevTestament
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4 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I have issues with almost anything big pharm puts out, but do understand there are needed drugs too.  

Without the products of so called big pharma, several people I know,  including my mom, would be dead. Developing safe drugs takes a lot of time and money, neither of which the "herbal" producers spend.  I think there are issues over the charges made for drugs which is a problem of the system, but without them,  millions of people would be dead.  I don't think the same can be said for the unregulated market in "herbal" products.  At worst,  people have died because they refused proper medical care. CBD is not a magic cure-all.  It needs proper testing.   If your friend is happy with her prescribed medication,  she has no need of an unproven "medicine".  It is big pharma working with governments and universities that will produce a vaccine for covid-19.

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19 minutes ago, sheilauk said:

Without the products of so called big pharma, several people I know,  including my mom, would be dead. Developing safe drugs takes a lot of time and money, neither of which the "herbal" producers spend.  I think there are issues over the charges made for drugs which is a problem of the system, but without them,  millions of people would be dead.  I don't think the same can be said for the unregulated market in "herbal" products.  At worst,  people have died because they refused proper medical care. CBD is not a magic cure-all.  It needs proper testing.   If your friend is happy with her prescribed medication,  she has no need of an unproven "medicine".  It is big pharma working with governments and universities that will produce a vaccine for covid-19.

You apparently skipped reading to the bottom of my post, and my friend has suffered side affects that she'll freely mention, one of them weight gain but she's on a few medications, not sure which one caused that. 

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2 hours ago, Calm said:

The current issue with CBD oil is it is not regulated in such a way you can guarantee the amount of drug you are getting with each dose.  Once marijuana becomes legal and sources are better supervised, I have no problem with trying them.  Given sensitivities to drugs, if you are using something for medicinal purposes, it is wise to be sure exactly what you are getting.

Some supplements even go so far as to add actual drugs into them or lack what they claim to include.  Thankfully there are labs now that test for such things and can give recommendations, but they have no power to regulate.  And since they aren't constantly retesting, there is no guarantee for consistency for a particular supplement.  And I have noticed companies tend to be very inconsistent across their products as they can be highly recommended for one thing and rejected for another.

Very true. All that is in my oil from Colorado is MCT oil, Stevia and orange flavoring plus the cannabis. My go to person is a small ma and pa outfit. I guess I could be taking a chance, but I am taking a chance on so many other things, and it hasn't killed me yet. I guess I get scared off of the pharmaceuticals because of their huge page of possible side affects in small print listed on their ads in magazines etc. I don't have a lot of trust. I know some medicines have proven to save lives, I'm not dumb enough to deny that. 

Thanks for your input. 

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1 hour ago, RevTestament said:

I don't mean to bug in, but there is a newer drug approved for narcolepsy she might try. It supposedly has less side effects. It is Modafinil. A lot of anecdotal reports also indicate Modafinil helps concentration, and even helps students get better grades. She might try talk talking to her doctor about it. It works differently. It is not really a direct stimulant to increase dopamine or norepinephrine, but is thought to reduce a chemical called gamma-aminobutyric acid that slows the brain down.

I'll let her know, thanks Rev.

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1 hour ago, sheilauk said:

All drugs have side effects,  including CBD.   The rules mean pharmaceutical companies have to tell you about them - informed consent - whereas the herbal supplement folks don't have too.   And just because there are side effects doesnt mean someone is unhappy with the drug they are on.  Can you guarantee CBD will be better for your friend? 

I can guarantee it won't kill her, not sure if it will help her, but maybe if she tried she'd find out. I don't think she's even tried the CBD only oil that is on every corner and legal.

There are ongoing studies.

http://rlsfoundation.blogspot.com/2015/10/medical-marijuana-and-rls-by-jacquelyn.html

Studies on medical marijuana for treating pain and muscle spasticity have shown a significant reduction in symptoms compared to placebo. In addition, these studies found no significant adverse effects, and patient tolerability to marijuana was good. The most common side effects of marijuana reported included dizziness, fatigue, dry mouth and nausea. 

http://www.drliptan.com/blog/2018/10/30/natural-treatments-for-restless-legs-syndrome

Edited by Tacenda
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2 hours ago, Tacenda said:

All that is in my oil from Colorado is MCT oil, Stevia and orange flavoring plus the cannabis.

That you know of.

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6 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I can guarantee it won't kill her.

Tainted CBD put people in the hospital. 

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15 hours ago, Tacenda said:

get scared off of the pharmaceuticals because of their huge page of possible side affects in small print listed on their ads in magazines etc

So you would rather take stuff you don’t know the side effects are?

I discovered my dizziness for the last three years was caused by a nutritional supplement. No warning provided by the company.  Unfortunately it was extremely helpful for my neuropathy as well, but if I am too dizzy to get out of bed, it defeats much of the purpose of getting rid of my foot pain. 

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13 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My good friend takes Adderall for Narcolepsy and another drug for severe restless syndrome. But refuses to take CBD, I guess it comes with a stigma or something but not harmful like the meth in Adderall and her other drug, crazy! I love her to bits, but she won't go there yet. Maybe she'll give in like Bernard Gui did, way to go @Bernard Gui, I hope it works for as long as possible. 

I have issues with almost anything big pharm puts out, but do understand there are needed drugs too.  

I know you are probably generalizing but Adderall is not methamphetamines. It is amphetamines. The chemical difference is slight but the difference is meth goes through the blood brain barrier much more easily. It is why meth has a much more immediate effect. Amphetamine is more of a slow burn. I say this as someone who takes generic Adderall for ADHD so I know it is not completely safe. It scares me a little but it is the only medication that has helped much. It is ironic that a stimulant is the only thing that can make my brain shut up because it seems to activate the part of my brain that filters out garbage. Either that or I am just a low dose junkie but I like to think that is not it.

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8 hours ago, sheilauk said:

All drugs have side effects,  including CBD.   The rules mean pharmaceutical companies have to tell you about them - informed consent - whereas the herbal supplement folks don't have too.   And just because there are side effects doesnt mean someone is unhappy with the drug they are on.  Can you guarantee CBD will be better for your friend? 

The problem in the US with supplements is they have successfully fought off virtually all regulations with well-funded lobbying and media campaigns. Studies of supplements have found a disturbing number do not even have in them what they claim on the outside. This is leaving aside whether they actually work. A trend I have noticed lately is that the supplements are getting more and more mixed in with the medication on shelves. Not a good trend.

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On 4/10/2020 at 12:58 PM, Tacenda said:

Thank goodness for actual tests that prove other wise. Like x-rays of shrinking tumors https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2019/03/18/cbd-oil-shrinks-tumor.aspx or lab reports (mine) showing I no longer needed meds for my hypothyroidism. :)

That is a sample size of one on a website with a banner ad promising you will not catch the coronavirus with their tips. Not exactly screaming “trustworthy”.

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11 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I can guarantee it won't kill her, not sure if it will help her, but maybe if she tried she'd find out. I don't think she's even tried the CBD only oil that is on every corner and legal.

There are ongoing studies.

http://rlsfoundation.blogspot.com/2015/10/medical-marijuana-and-rls-by-jacquelyn.html

Studies on medical marijuana for treating pain and muscle spasticity have shown a significant reduction in symptoms compared to placebo. In addition, these studies found no significant adverse effects, and patient tolerability to marijuana was good. The most common side effects of marijuana reported included dizziness, fatigue, dry mouth and nausea. 

http://www.drliptan.com/blog/2018/10/30/natural-treatments-for-restless-legs-syndrome

I don't think you can guarantee it won't kill or even harm her. I know there are studies underway,  but they are hardly extensive.  Are you trying to push her into going against her own wishes? If so, why?  Not everyone wants to be a "guinea pig"   and just because something is readily available and legal doesnt make it safe (cigarettes and alcohol come to mind).  Given that CBD oil is unregulated, no one can be sure what they are getting or even that TCH is not included in the substance taken and no one can be sure of the dosages needed.  CBD is very likely going to be a useful alternate drug for some things,  but there is a long way to go before its an approved medicine for all the claims made about it.  Personally I am suspicious of anecdotal claims for supplements and herbals, especially with regard to serious illnesses, and it seems to me that users are part of a big, uncontrolled, experiment. That's fine if you do your research and want to take part,  but I don't think its okay to push someone else into taking part.  I accept that you may not be doing that and I accept that you genuinely think it will help and you want to help her. 

There are a number of articles about medical marijuana at this site.  https://www.verywellhealth.com/cbd-oil-benefits-uses-side-effects-4174562

Edited by sheilauk
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5 hours ago, sheilauk said:

I don't think you can guarantee it won't kill or even harm her. I know there are studies underway,  but they are hardly extensive.  Are you trying to push her into going against her own wishes? If so, why?  Not everyone wants to be a "guinea pig"   and just because something is readily available and legal doesnt make it safe (cigarettes and alcohol come to mind).  Given that CBD oil is unregulated, no one can be sure what they are getting or even that TCH is not included in the substance taken and no one can be sure of the dosages needed.  CBD is very likely going to be a useful alternate drug for some things,  but there is a long way to go before its an approved medicine for all the claims made about it.  Personally I am suspicious of anecdotal claims for supplements and herbals, especially with regard to serious illnesses, and it seems to me that users are part of a big, uncontrolled, experiment. That's fine if you do your research and want to take part,  but I don't think its okay to push someone else into taking part.  I accept that you may not be doing that and I accept that you genuinely think it will help and you want to help her. 

There are a number of articles about medical marijuana at this site.  https://www.verywellhealth.com/cbd-oil-benefits-uses-side-effects-4174562

I haven't pushed her. I don't even talk to her about it. At the beginning of treating myself I mentioned it and got her response and then left her alone.

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

That is a sample size of one on a website with a banner ad promising you will not catch the coronavirus with their tips. Not exactly screaming “trustworthy”.

So be it.

 

9 hours ago, The Nehor said:

The problem in the US with supplements is they have successfully fought off virtually all regulations with well-funded lobbying and media campaigns. Studies of supplements have found a disturbing number do not even have in them what they claim on the outside. This is leaving aside whether they actually work. A trend I have noticed lately is that the supplements are getting more and more mixed in with the medication on shelves. Not a good trend.

And the pharmaceuticals are really trustworthy, I get it.  

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57 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I haven't pushed her. I don't even talk to her about it. At the beginning of treating myself I mentioned it and got her response and then left her alone.

So be it.

 

And the pharmaceuticals are really trustworthy, I get it.  

Pharmaceuticals often try to get away with what they can, but they have tighter regulations so even if as greedy and dishonorable as the worst of those in the supplemental industry, the risk for them is higher....though apparently class action lawsuits are starting to be popular avenues, so risk may raise some for the supplemental industry.

Edited by Calm
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2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Pharmaceuticals often try to get away with what they can, but they have tighter regulations so even if as geeedy and dishonorable as the worst of those in the supplemental industry, the risk for them is higher. 

9. Annual Number of Deaths By Selected Causes in the US, Including Deaths Attributed to Alcohol, Tobacco, and Other Drug Use

Cause of death (Data from 2016 unless otherwise noted) Number
   
All Causes 2,744,248
   
Major Cardiovascular Diseases [MCD] 835,947
   Diseases of Heart [subset of MCD]    635,260
   Cerebrovascular Diseases [subset of MCD]    142,142
Malignant Neoplasms [Cancer] 598,038
Deaths Attributed to Tobacco Smoking (Each year from 2005 through 2009)1 480,320
Accidents (Unintentional Injuries) [Total] 161,374
   Motor Vehicle Accidents [subset of Total Accidents]    40,327
Chronic Lower Respiratory Diseases 154,596
Alzheimer's Disease 116,103
Diabetes Mellitus 80,058
Drug-Induced Deaths2 67,265
Influenza and Pneumonia 51,537
Nephritis, Nephrotic Syndrome and Nephrosis 50,046
Intentional Self-Harm (Suicide) 44,965
Septicemia 40,613
Chronic Liver Disease and Cirrhosis 40,545
   Alcoholic Liver Disease [subset of Chronic Liver Disease]    21,815
Injury by Firearms 38,658
Alcohol-Induced Deaths 34,865
Parkinson's Disease 29,697
Pneumonitis Due to Solids and Liquids 19,715
Assault (Homicide) 19,362
Viral Hepatitis 6,421
Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) Disease 6,160
 
All Illicit Drugs Combined (2000)3 17,0002
Cannabis (Marijuana)4 0
 

2016 Data Detailing Drug-Induced Deaths,
Breaking Out Specific Data for Natural and Semi-Synthetic Opioids (including Oxycodone), Synthetic Opioids (including Fentanyl), and Heroin,
as Reported by the CDC7
Total Deaths Attributed to Drug Overdose 63,632
Overdose Deaths Involving Any Opioid 42,249
Overdose Deaths Involving Heroin 15,469
Overdose Deaths Involving Natural and Semi-Synthetic Opioids 14,487
Overdose Deaths Involving Methadone 3,373
Overdose Deaths Involving Synthetic Opioids Other Than Methadone 19,413

2014 Data Detailing Drug-Induced Deaths,
Breaking Out Specific Data for Prescription Analgesics and Heroin,
as Reported by the CDC5
Drug Overdose Total 47,055
Deaths Involving Pharmaceutical Opioid Analgesics 18,893
Deaths Involving Heroin 10,574
 

2010 Drug Overdose Mortality Data In Detail,
Reported By Paulozzi et al.6
Drug Overdose Total 38,329
Deaths Involving Pharmaceutical Drugs 22,134
Deaths Involving Pharmaceutical Opioids
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19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

And the pharmaceuticals are really trustworthy, I get it.  

The pharmaceuticals industry should be nationalized due to their pricing practices and exploitation and monetization of taxpayer funded research. I am not their defender but there is some oversight of pharma drugs in terms of safety and efficacy. The supplement industry is basically the old timey sleazy guy with a wagon full of snake oil selling tonics.

CBD oil does have possible side effects particularly when used with other drugs. One of the most prominent found were cholesterol medications like Statin.

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16 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

The pharmaceuticals industry should be nationalized due to their pricing practices and exploitation and monetization of taxpayer funded research. I am not their defender but there is some oversight of pharma drugs in terms of safety and efficacy. The supplement industry is basically the old timey sleazy guy with a wagon full of snake oil selling tonics.

CBD oil does have possible side effects particularly when used with other drugs. One of the most prominent found were cholesterol medications like Statin.

Yeah, maybe the drugs are bad not the cannabis. 

https://health.usnews.com/health-news/patient-advice/articles/2016-09-27/the-danger-in-taking-prescribed-medications

ETA: @The Nehor I'm wasting my allotted posts, maybe that's you and others objective...lol. So editing from now on concerning this thread for today. You're right cannabis isn't foolproof. But outweighs so much out there, IMO. 

@The Nehor concerning your recent response to me.

Nehor: That article is primarily about the danger of new relatively untested medications (specifically in about a seven year window after approval) which is ironically where CBD products would be if they were not usually unregulated supplements.

Me: Cannabis has been studied several hundreds of years ago! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_medical_cannabis

Edited by Tacenda
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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I didn't see a "driving while high on Marijuana" line on that list. I also did not see a line for fatal drug interactions.

Marijuana and CBD are safer than a lot of medications but pushing the line that they are completely safe is misleading.

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3 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

That article is primarily about the danger of new relatively untested medications (specifically in about a seven year window after approval) which is ironically where CBD products would be if they were not usually unregulated supplements.

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On 4/13/2020 at 9:02 AM, 2BizE said:

No, the WoW specifies you should use the herbs with prudence like CBD and Marijuana.  It also says you should drink mild beverages of barley (beer). 

There are some excellent non-alcoholic brews out there.

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3 hours ago, Bernard Gui said:

There are some excellent non-alcoholic brews out there.

Do they help me cope with the misery that is my life like the good stuff does?

 

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