The Shortest Thread EVER!

[mfbukowski]

5 hours ago, Maidservant said:

Yes . . . there is experience; and then there is the story of the experience.  As soon as you begin the story, you've left the experience.  They cannot coincide.  This is not to say one is better than the other; they each have their place.  But best not to confuse them for each other.

That is the key to it all- and what is debated.  I can't believe that some don't just instantly SEE that, but it has been a huge source of confusion in philosophy.

In fact this is where, in my opinion, Rorty gets it totally wrong and this is the major flaw in his philosophy and why he finally ends up being an atheist and collectivist.  There are no individuals, just robots.  And I will say this as well, though it is a technical point.  The Ironist - one who overcomes their lingusitic programming and becomes a "strong poet" - is a contradiction because on must be both contingent and non-contingent at the same time.  Contradiction.  That's for the Rorty fans out there as if one will ever read it.

If there is room for non-verbal communication through direct experience,  then the Spirit can exist.  The experience before the story is the vehicle of personal revelation, to me.  Crucial!

If there is no room for non-verbal communication through direct experience, there can be no spiritual experience.

That's what I think anyway.

 

[Metis_LDS]

25 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

If there is room for non-verbal communication through direct experience,  then the Spirit can exist.  The experience before the story is the vehicle of personal revelation, to me.  Crucial!

 I found this: "For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation." (Psalm 62), and this:  

"Silence is the mystery of the world to come. Speech is the organ of this present world. More than all things love silence: it brings you a fruit that the tongue cannot describe. In the beginning we have to force ourselves to be silent. But then from our very silence is born something that draws us into deeper silence. May God give you an experience of this 'something' that is born of silence. If you practice this, inexpressible light will dawn upon you."

— Issac of Ninive

Edited May 27, 2019 by Metis_LDS

[mfbukowski]

1 minute ago, Metis_LDS said:

 I found this: "For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation." (Psalm 62)

Great stuff!

The kingdom of God is within, and not of this world! 

And all we know verbally about the world is The Word.  That's why everything was created by The Word. 

And then came Babel!

Pure spiritual communication was lost- ie: direct non verbal experience and then language was "confounded" and here we are with confounded language messing everything up!

 

 

[Maidservant]

19 minutes ago, Metis_LDS said:

 I found this: "For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation." (Psalm 62), and this:  

"Silence is the mystery of the world to come. Speech is the organ of this present world. More than all things love silence: it brings you a fruit that the tongue cannot describe. In the beginning we have to force ourselves to be silent. But then from our very silence is born something that draws us into deeper silence. May God give you an experience of this 'something' that is born of silence. If you practice this, inexpressible light will dawn upon you."

— Issac of Ninive

Love.

[nuclearfuels]

Excellent question!  

I think most of us, especially me, would have a hard time believing a person like Joseph Smith had we lived when he did - let alone our ward family whose shortcomings we might know a little bit about, and whom we might be jealous of, or slighlty silently disdainful of, or ...ya know

[Metis_LDS]

5 minutes ago, nuclearfuels said:

Excellent question!  

I think most of us, especially me, would have a hard time believing a person like Joseph Smith had we lived when he did - let alone our ward family whose shortcomings we might know a little bit about, and whom we might be jealous of, or slighlty silently disdainful of, or ...ya know

Yes the human element is very strong.  We (myself included) let it have to much sway over us.  So a vision recounted by someone we like may get more importance than from someone we do not feel good about.  The messenger affects the message, true very true.

[ERMD]

On 5/25/2019 at 7:39 PM, mfbukowski said:

Clark Goble , who hangs out here as well, was kind enough to ask me to post on Times and Seasons this little article that seems relevant.

What is the difference between a vision and a hallucination and seeing anything "real"?

There is a neuroscientist mentioned in the article who says we "hallucinate reality" !

We do not see what is "real" if what is "real" is what physicists say reality is- quarks and subatomic particles, but what we actually see are light waves bouncing off of---- what?  Compounds and elements?  What IS reality and why do we see what we see as "real"?

https://www.timesandseasons.org/harchive/2017/08/guest-post-justifying-visions/index.html

 

Fascinating read.  Thanks for sharing.

[Stargazer]

For the record, this was not the shortest thread ever.  That thread on the White Horse Prophecy was MUCH shorter than this one.  And closed just when the discussion between @The Nehor and @longview was getting interesting.

[Damien the Leper]

I listened to Julie Rowe's podcast about her excommunication a little last night. It's weird that this nobody claims to have visions. If they're real then good for her. People's visions or hallucinations should always be kept to themselves.