The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.

[The Nehor]

I should add that I do not believe that these spirits can take control of someone completely as portrayed in popular media. I have several reasons for this belief but the most prominent comes from a section of the temple when the devil threatens to do just that and is forbidden. At best they can “share the driver’s seat” at the consent of the other person. While I believe they can tempt anyone I suspect they can only enter when invited or as a consequence of some sin.

This is pretty speculative though and it is not an enlightening subject and it is probably not healthy to delve too deeply into it or make it a topic of serious study. Elder Scott once gave a fireside on miracles and mentioned that devils can, to some extent, perform miracles and knowing that is good but beyond know that further inquiry into that topic is unhealthy.

In the end though like all things of wickedness their power is limited or as the Savior comforted Joseph Smith in Liberty jail when he promised that their bounds are set and they cannot pass but that if Joseph continued faithfully his potential power is limitless.

[MiserereNobis]

6 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

it is probably not healthy to delve too deeply into it or make it a topic of serious study.

There are annual conferences for exorcists. They have to keep up their game. They should force them to have continuing education credits  

[The Nehor]

1 minute ago, MiserereNobis said:

There are annual conferences for exorcists. They have to keep up their game. They should force them to have continuing education credits  

I would consider going but they never invite me.  

[MiserereNobis]

2 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I would consider going but they never invite me.  

Convert to Catholicism, go to seminary, get ordained, ask your bishop to be the exorcist, and then you'll be invited. Pretty simple from my point-of-view.

[Tacenda]

34 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, exorcisms in movies look much more fun and interesting.

I have never seen any guidelines. I just made it up as I went. I assume if there is an exact prayer it would have been given by revelation.

I have seen the fake kind you describe. I went with a friend to give a blessing to a lady who was convinced she was plagued by demons. We gave her a blessing and halfway through she felt the need to tell us to “don’t forget to cast out the demons. He humored her. On my mission my mission president warned that as there was a temple dedication coming up we could expect some unclean spirit stuff. It is just normal as a reaction to the coming temple. He told us that, if practical, to contact him before we did anything in this area but if we had to to go as directed by the Spirit. He also in some dark humor pointed out that sometimes an exorcism is not the proper course. Sometimes when there is a debased spirit in a body it is the only spirit in there and casting it out would kill it.

The experiences I had that I believe were authentic were different. There was a palpable feeling of despair and grittiness (if that makes sense). One time I was attacked and went into convulsions. It was strange. I had motor control but lost all fine motor control and just felt pure hate directed at me. Others in the house felt the same thing and some had similar symptoms and the house was surrounded by drunk hateful people screaming threats at us. I prayed and was shortly afterwards released.

Another time I went to give someone a blessing and felt a similar atmosphere. It was centered on a very troubled man. He was young and made some bad choices. I gave a blessing and in it rebuked them and commanded them to depart. The feeling fled and I felt something strange when it or they left. Knowing that guy the cynic in me says he invited them right back but I never found out what happened.

There was another time in my youth where I dabbled with demonology (more then just playing with a ouija board and similar silliness). That is the one time I thought I saw a diabolic “miracle” but I am not sure if there objectively was one.. The problem is that devils dull the mind and the senses and probably work more by illusion as they do actual power. I do not recommend the experience. I think I felt to some degree the paranoid fear that unclean spirits know and it was not pleasant. I ceased my experimentation after that and after I got rid of the damned thing or things (not swearing, literally what they are).

For the most part though they are rare. I have heard of more from people I trust but I do not think they are common and I suspect most members of the Church go their lives without such an experience. I think I am over quota and hope to never deal with it again. On the positive side I know enough not to be afraid of them unless I invited them.

Okay, now we're really talking spirits. Now that I can get behind! 

[USU78]

6 hours ago, Tacenda said:

I'm surprised by your put down for SteveO. Where did that come from? Have you had experience with this? 

In articles I've read it very much could be mental conditions .

The issue is how the claimed "question" was presented.  Looked very much like an attack on the bonafides of the poster, who was speaking from a personal experience, which personal experience was at best conflated with a general proposition.  I have no problem with the general proposition.  I have a serious problem with making the claim in the form of a "question" which necessarily comes off as scoffing.

As for personal experience:  that's personal, and there are too many jerks on this board who attack personal experiences for me to share.  Over cider and a donut I'm more than happy to share with friends.

We don't appreciate rudeness and we don't put up with it forever.

[ALarson]

19 minutes ago, USU78 said:

The issue is how the claimed "question" was presented. 

I thought his question was sincere (and I was interested in the answer as well).

Your questions however are a better example of an attack:

http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/71810-the-church-is-potentially-spending-129-million-to-purchase-a-london-office-building- /?do=findComment&comment=1209903722

You seem even snarkier than usual lately....

 

Edited May 3, 2019 by ALarson

[Amulek]

On 5/2/2019 at 12:16 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Semi-relevant tangent, but Johnny Cash does a good job at describing the millennium from the perspective of a nervous sinner: [lyrics to The Man Comes Around omitted -me]

Completely irrelevant tangent since the thread has now gone long enough for that to start happening: 

But I totally just had a flashback to the season one finale of Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles. Man, that was a great season ending. Makes me want to go back and watch it again now. 

When my wife complains, I'm going to blame you.  

 

[USU78]

10 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I should add that I do not believe that these spirits can take control of someone completely as portrayed in popular media

My paternal grandfather would disagree (Maui 1919).

[Kenngo1969]

I suppose there are .... ummm ... advantages to being wicked when one is left to his own devices.  "Awww, leave 'im alone!  He's doing well enough, ummm, I mean bad enough, on his own!"

Yes, I know it's a serious subject, and that it's no laughing matter.  Apologies for the unwarranted levity.  (I don't have any direct experience with evil spirits, but I do have a complicated enough behavioral health history that I'm convinced that one's mental state certainly can play a role in how susceptible he is to the Adversary.)

[Wade Englund]

13 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I would consider going but they never invite me.  

You've been excised from the Exorcism conferences?  Ouch!

Thanks,, -Wade Enlgund-

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, MiserereNobis said:

Convert to Catholicism, go to seminary, get ordained, ask your bishop to be the exorcist, and then you'll be invited. Pretty simple from my point-of-view.

I do not want to join any club that would have me as a member.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, USU78 said:

My paternal grandfather would disagree (Maui 1919).

I am sure you are not the only one who would disagree. Feel free to share if you are comfortable with it.