Review of Dehlin's "Truth Claims" Essays

[bluebell]

I know that the topic of the accuracy of Dehlin's essays has been brought up before on the message board.  I ran across this review and thought that some here would be interested.  

http://www.mormonstoriesessays.com/?fbclid=IwAR0tVmalwzEUQYVJOe5jraZJbVruDkU9jah1VNrF_MHpIcpBkaPtNfcVpd0

The topics that the review say Dehlin has gotten wrong so far include:

• Scimitar in the BOM
• "Principal Ancestors" vs "Among the Ancestors"
• Beekeeping as an Anachronism
• Egyptian Influence in Israel

The Review goes on to talk about some other issues it has with the Dehlin's Essays as well, such as a comparison between the DNA articles written by the church and the one published by Dehlin, namely, the sources used to create each essay and which one has more peer reviewed scientific sources.

Thoughts?

[Tacenda]

7 minutes ago, bluebell said:

I know that the topic of the accuracy of Dehlin's essays has been brought up before on the message board.  I ran across this review and thought that some here would be interested.  

http://www.mormonstoriesessays.com/?fbclid=IwAR0tVmalwzEUQYVJOe5jraZJbVruDkU9jah1VNrF_MHpIcpBkaPtNfcVpd0

The topics that the review say Dehlin has gotten wrong so far include:

• Scimitar in the BOM
• "Principal Ancestors" vs "Among the Ancestors"
• Beekeeping as an Anachronism
• Egyptian Influence in Israel

The Review goes on to talk about some other issues it has with the Dehlin's Essays as well, such as a comparison between the DNA articles written by the church and the one published by Dehlin, namely, the sources used to create each essay and which one has more peer reviewed scientific sources.

Thoughts?

I wish the author of this article would have checked their spelling, see below. But I'll hand it to them for finding the mistakes John made and hopefully John will correct them.

While there certinaly are legtimate issues worth discussing about the Book of Mormon and archaeology, Dehlin’s essay on the subject is full of things that simply are not true. Take, for instance, this paragraph about the cimeter (more commonly spelled scimitar today):

[bluebell]

19 minutes ago, Tacenda said:

I wish the author of this article would have checked their spelling, see below. But I'll hand it to them for finding the mistakes John made and hopefully John will correct them.

While there certinaly are legtimate issues worth discussing about the Book of Mormon and archaeology, Dehlin’s essay on the subject is full of things that simply are not true. Take, for instance, this paragraph about the cimeter (more commonly spelled scimitar today):

It looks more like a typing error than a spelling error, but I agree that it would have been nice if their spell check had caught it.  Was that the only spelling error in the piece?  

[Storm Rider]

For Dehlin to set up himself up as a source of a superior review of Mormon truth claims, it would appear that either he is atrociously lazy in this research while being woefully ignorant of the topic OR he maliciously attempts to mislead others about Mormonism. 

I have never felt that Dehlin was an intellectual giant who spoke from his industrious, deep research of Mormonism. He smacks more of the charlatan who focuses more on manipulating the emotions of his listeners. He has long since outlived his fifteen seconds of fame.

To think that I actually know an individual who financially donated to his group. That old saying about a fool being born every minute comes to mind. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Storm Rider

[Calm]

My understanding is the essays have been done by someone besides John Dehlin.  They are posted on his site.  There is an explanation of authorship somewhere on his site, probably in the intro of them.

[Storm Rider]

42 minutes ago, Calm said:

My understanding is the essays have been done by someone besides John Dehlin.  They are posted on his site.  There is an explanation of authorship somewhere on his site, probably in the intro of them.

The problem is that he is responsible for what is posted on his site. If he did not review them then he is incredibly stupid and careless. If he reviewed and still put them on his site, then it still demonstrates his ignorance of a topic that he has long portrayed himself an expert.  It is just extremely disappointing to see. 

[Robert F. Smith]

10 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

For Dehlin to set up himself up as a source of a superior review of Mormon truth claims, it would appear that either he is atrociously lazy in this research while being woefully ignorant of the topic OR he maliciously attempts to mislead others about Mormonism. 

I have never felt that Dehlin was an intellectual giant who spoke from his industrious, deep research of Mormonism. He smacks of charlatan who focuses more on manipulating the emotions of his listeners. He has long since outlived his fifteen seconds of fame.

To think that I actually know an individual who financially donated to his group. That old saying about a fool being born every minute comes to mind. 

Not at all unusual in today's world.  Nonsense has become the norm.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Robert F. Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

9 hours ago, Storm Rider said:

The problem is that he is responsible for what is posted on his site. If he did not review them then he is incredibly stupid and careless. If he reviewed and still put them on his site, then it still demonstrates his ignorance of a topic that he has long portrayed himself an expert.  It is just extremely disappointing to see. 

Dehlin has always stated that he likes to be spontaneous in his interviews, so that has been his reason for not actually reading books and articles about such matters.  He said that in response to my criticism of his arrogant ignorance in his long interview with Brant Gardner, for example (about 4 hours).  Brant was very nice to him, despite his extreme ignorance and lack of preparation for the interview.  This has been his pattern of interviewing throughout "Mormon Stories."  It is hard to imagine a sociopath with a PhD in psychology, but I cannot think of any other rational explanation for his almost suicidal approach (he seems to want to get "caught").  Storm Rider suggests that Dehlin is "atrociously lazy" or a "charlatan."  I am mystified.

[Gray]

3 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Dehlin has always stated that he likes to be spontaneous in his interviews, so that has been his reason for not actually reading books and articles about such matters.  He said that in response to my criticism of his arrogant ignorance in his long interview with Brant Gardner, for example (about 4 hours).  Brant was very nice to him, despite his extreme ignorance and lack of preparation for the interview.  This has been his pattern of interviewing throughout "Mormon Stories."  It is hard to imagine a sociopath with a PhD in psychology, but I cannot think of any other rational explanation for his almost suicidal approach (he seems to want to get "caught").  Storm Rider suggests that Dehlin is "atrociously lazy" or a "charlatan."  I am mystified.

I think we can agree that Dehlin is a sloppy interviewer without stooping to armchair psychoanalysis and attacks. I find his interview style frustrating, but that doesn't make him a sociopath. There's an art to interviewing people, and he's never really picked that up. It's not really anything to do with his field of study or his mental health.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Gray

[ALarson]

55 minutes ago, Gray said:

I think we can agree that Dehlin is a sloppy interviewer without stooping to armchair psychoanalysis and attacks. I find his interview style frustrating, but that doesn't make him a sociopath. There's an art to interviewing people, and he's never really picked that up. It's not really anything to do with his field of study or his mental health.

I agree.  I would hope this topic can be discussed without stooping to personal attacks on Dehlin.  There's enough to discuss without going there.

I am interested in some specific examples of what was wrong in the essay he posted (but did not write).  I haven't read it, but will try to get to it this week.  But if someone can post some specifics, I'd be interested in reading them.

Edited February 14, 2019 by ALarson

[bluebell]

51 minutes ago, ALarson said:

I agree.  I would hope this topic can be discussed without stooping to personal attacks on Dehlin.  There's enough to discuss without going there.

I am interested in some specific examples of what was wrong in the essay he posted (but did not write).  I haven't read it, but will try to get to it this week.  But if someone can post some specifics, I'd be interested in reading them.

Here are two of the reviews.  The Review's points are in Green with Dehlin's Essay quotes in Blue.  My words are in Black.

On the use of the word Scimitar:  

"While there certinaly are legitimate issues worth discussing about the Book of Mormon and archaeology, Dehlin’s essay on the subject is full of things that simply are not true. Take, for instance, this paragraph about the cimeter (more commonly spelled scimitar today):

Dehlin's Essay claims:  Cimeter: The curved, bladed weapon, mentioned 3 times in the Book of Mormon, originated with the Ottoman empire in the 9th Century. Not only is it an Asian word for blade, it’s also made of anachronistic steel. It remains unknown how Lehi would be aware of it, as the word was unused in any contemporary Hebrew literature.

The Review's Counter to that claim:

The Origins of Curved, Bladed Weapons

Curved, bladed weapons—which scholars freely call scimitars—have been known since the Bronze Age. Some scholars believe such weapons were known in the ancient Near East as early as the 3rd millennium BC.1 It’s certainly attested by the 2nd millennium BC. Describing weapons from the Later Bronze Age (ca. 1550–1200 BC), archaeologist Amihai Mazar wrote, “Sickle-shaped scimitars are known both from actual finds and from Egyptian artistic depictions.”2 Mazer shows an illustration of the Egyptian weapon, which he captions as “a scimitar.” 

In Canaan, “the curved sickle-sword, r scimitar” is known even earlier, in the Middle Bronze Age.3 An Egyptian text written in the early 2nd millennium BC mentions the plundering of weapons, including scimitars, from Canaanite towns: “copper-cum-wood [weapons]: (battle)-axes, 10; scimitars, 33; daggers, 12; knives (?), 11.”4

There’s even evidence that Israelites specifically used curved-bladed swords. Boyd Seevers, an expert in Old Testament warfare, said, “Likely the typical early Israelite sword was a sickle-sword, which had a handle attached to a straight shaft that continued into a curved blade.”5 The only known artistic depiction of Israelite swords, from Assyrian reliefs dated to ca. 700 BC, illustrates them as curved-bladed weapons.6

For what it is worth, curved weapons that leading Maya scholars Mary Miller and Simon Martin have described as “scimitar-like” are also known in Mesoamerican art going back to the early pre-Classic period (ca. 1500–900 BC).7

So the existence of curved-bladed weapons, which scholars have freely referred to as scimitars, is well attested long before the Ottoman empire or the 9th century AD. 

Asian Word for Blade

First, what’s an “Asian” word? This generalization is unhelpful, and also pretty racist. Asia is a huge continent, with literally hundreds of different languages and cultures—which includes the Middle-East, where Israel is. So technically a “Hebrew” word is an “Asian” word. 

I assume that what they mean is it’s a Persian word, but even that is not really accurate. Scimitar is an English word—and there’s no problem with it showing up in an English translation. As quoted above, Egyptologist Donald Redford used “scimitar” in his English translation of an Egyptian word referring to curved-bladed weapons from around 2000 BC.8 So again, not clear what the problem is.

As for the origins of the word, its etymology goes back to 15th century French (cimeterre) and Italian (scimitarra). It’s origins beyond that are uncertain. Some think it comes from the Persian shimshir, but others think that connection is unsatisfactory.9

Anachronistic Steel

There’s a whole section on steel elsewhere in the essay, which I or one of my compatriots might decide to deal with in detail later. For now, I’ll just say three things:

1. Steel is definitely not anachronistic for Lehi’s time. Tests performed on iron objects from the early Iron Age proved that nearly all of them were technically made of steel.10 What’s more, a steel Israelite sword has specifically been found dated to the 7th century BC.11

2. The Book of Mormon never says what their “cimeters” are made out of (Enos 1:20; Alma 27:29; Alma 44:8).

3. Scimitars needn’t necessarily be made out of steel. As noted, sickle-shaped swords referred to as scimitars by scholars are known from the Bronze Age, and where made out of bronze, and sometimes even wood. In Mesoamerica, scimitar-like blades were made out of flint.12

The Word Unused in Contemporary Hebrew Literature

Obviously, the Englishword scimitar is not used in any Hebrew literature from Lehi’s day. But as noted, words translated as “scimitar” by scholars are known in the ancient Near East, going back to well before Lehi’s day. Obviously, since Israelites had curved swords (as noted above), they probably had a word for such swords as well. And indeed, there is just such a Hebrew word: kidon (כידון), defined as “javelin or short curved sword.”13Roland De Vaux explains:

[Kîdôn] is usually translated ‘javelin’, … [m]ore probably, however, the kîdôn was a scimitar … like those shown on monuments discovered in excavations.14

In 1 Samuel 17:6 and 45, P. Kyle McCarter translates kidon as “scimitar,” and defines it as “a heavy, curved, flate-bladed, Oriental sword with a cutting edge on the outer (convex) side of the blade.”15

Significantly, the term kidon shows up twice in Jeremiah (6:23; 50:42), a contemporary prophet with Lehi—so it is used in “contemporary Hebrew literature.”

Conclusion

I honestly can’t imagine someone writing a single paragraph with more factual errors than this one. And while I’ve made it a point to cite mainstream academic sources here, it’s not like Mormon scholars have not pointed this out—in response to this very criticism—before.16 So why does critical literature, including here Dehlin’s essays, keep repeating this nonsensical claim over and over and over?

Perhaps it’s because they did nothing more than read the Wikipedia article on “scimitar”—a shallow and superficial research method if ever there was one. Or perhaps it’s because they know for many who lose faith over articles like this, it’s the cumulative effect of the arguments. Piling on one claim after another—no matter how tenuous—can overwhelm the unsuspecting reader who does not know any better, and doesn’t have the means to factcheck the information presented. 

If this is the case, it’s easy to see why critics might continue to repeat old claims long since debunked, since reducing the number of arguments does not ultimately serve the cumulative effect very well. But it’s also extremely unethical. So let’s give Dehlin the benefit of the doubt and just assume that he really just didn’t know any better—his understanding of the topic too superficial. This still seriously undermines the credibility of the essays.

Author Alexander CampbellPosted on February 13, 2019Categories Archaeology and the Book of Mormon, UncategorizedTags anachronisms, archaeology, Book of Mormon, cimeter, scimitar, steel."

On the Honey Bee:

Dehlin's Essay says:  The Mormon Stories essay on “Archaeology and the Book of Mormon” argues that the mentioning of Jaredite beekeeping is anachronistic:

“The Jaradites are described in Ether as having carried honey bees to the New World, while ignoring the improbability of transporting bees in a totally enclosed submarine for a year. The honey bee is not native to North America.”

To support this claim, the article hyperlinks to a 2006 article from ScienceDaily.

The Reviews counter to that claim:

The only reference to honeybees in the Book of Mormon is in the book of Ether:

“And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.”

Ether 2:3

Ignoring for now the arguably ancient etymology of deseret, it must be pointed out that the text actually does not describe the Jaredites taking honeybees with them across the ocean. It rather describes them carrying honeybees before they cross the ocean in the “valley of Nimrod” as they went “forth into the wilderness” (Ether 2:4–5). It might be assumed that the Jaredites took honeybees with them to the New World, but when the text catalogues New World Jaredite fauna (Ether 9:18–19), honeybees are absent.

Apiculture in ancient Egypt is documented as early as the third millennium BC.1 It is striking that the Jaredite word for honeybee, deseret, has a plausible Egyptian etymology (dšrt).2 It seems probable that Jaredite apiculture was imported from ancient Egypt, since evidence for beekeeping in Mesopotamia (the supposed homeland of the Jaredites) is scant, with the clearest data for Mesopotamian apiculture coming long after Jaredite times.3 A plausible reading of the Book of Mormon text could argue that the Jaredite honeybees did not survive the group’s pan-Mesopotamian (and pan-Eurasian?) migration.4

The claim made by Dehlin that there is no native pre-Columbian apiculture is demonstrably wrong. “Yucatan was a thriving center of apiculture from pre-Columbian times, persisting, little changed, to the present,” and there are several known native North American honeybee species.5 The Spanish described native honey-producing beekeeping upon their arrival in the Yucatan,6 and Michael D. Coe, whom Dehlin has interviewed and often cites as an authority on Book of Mormon archaeology, has discussed native Mesoamerican apiculture and specifically speaks of the “stingless honeybee” as a domesticated New World animal.7 Other scholars have also discussed the significance of apiculture in ancient Mesoamerican history and culture.8

Most recently, an article published in the journal Latin American Antiquity in June 2018 documents the existence of pre-Columbian beekeeping among the pre-Classic Maya. 

While the Jaredites are usually associated by Book of Mormon scholars with Olmec culture,9 which is older than Maya culture, the attestation of pre-Columbian Mesoamerican apiculture refutes Dehlin’s sweeping claim that “the honey bee is not native to North America.”10 In fact, the species Melipona beecheii is native to Mesoamerica, and was used for collecting honey. As were the species Partamona bilineata and Tetragonisca angustula, to name just two others. The “honey bee . . . not native to North America” spoken of in the ScienceDaily article cited by Dehlin is referring to is a different, more common species (the European honeybee or Apis mellifera).

So even if the Jaredites did manage to bring honeybees to the New World (which the Book of Mormon never actually explicitly claims happened), there is abundant archaeological and zoological evidence for their domestication and use in pre-Columbian North America. 

As in most matters related to archaeology and the Book of Mormon, Dehlin is out of date, uninformed, and demonstrably wrong.

[HappyJackWagon]

I find it funny that people are up in arms because Dehlin might be wrong about some things. He's a guy. He makes mistakes. Would anyone expect him to be more perfect than the church has been? It seems like some here hold Dehlin to a higher standard of accuracy than they do the church and the apostles/prophets since the beginning restoration. Aren't these church leaders supposed to be "experts" on some of the issues they've gotten wrong.  Newsflash: everyone makes mistakes...even "experts".

I have no problem criticizing Dehlin when he's wrong. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer. I'm fair that way   I wonder if those criticizing Dehlin's errors would also be willing to criticize the church's errors.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find it funny that people are up in arms because Dehlin might be wrong about some things. He's a guy. He makes mistakes. Would anyone expect him to be more perfect than the church has been? It seems like some here hold Dehlin to a higher standard of accuracy than they do the church and the apostles/prophets since the beginning restoration. Aren't these church leaders supposed to be "experts" on some of the issues they've gotten wrong.  Newsflash: everyone makes mistakes...even "experts".

I have no problem criticizing Dehlin when he's wrong. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer. I'm fair that way   I wonder if those criticizing Dehlin's errors would also be willing to criticize the church's errors.

I thought that Dehlin claimed that his essays would be better than the churches?  So far, has that been the case?  If not, then I can understand why some would be 'up in arms' (whatever that means).  He set up a specific standard and it's not hypocritical for anyone to hold him to that standard or criticize if he fails to reach it.

[juliann]

38 minutes ago, HappyJackWagon said:

I find it funny that people are up in arms because Dehlin might be wrong about some things. He's a guy. He makes mistakes. Would anyone expect him to be more perfect than the church has been? It seems like some here hold Dehlin to a higher standard of accuracy than they do the church and the apostles/prophets since the beginning restoration. Aren't these church leaders supposed to be "experts" on some of the issues they've gotten wrong.  Newsflash: everyone makes mistakes...even "experts".

I have no problem criticizing Dehlin when he's wrong. I'm an equal opportunity criticizer. I'm fair that way   I wonder if those criticizing Dehlin's errors would also be willing to criticize the church's errors.

I would and do. But those who make a living from it while claiming to be more accurate than what they criticize should be subject to more scrutiny. Dehlin now bears the burden of correcting this critique. And good luck with that given it has buried him in sources. I'll wait for Dehlin to pick it apart but in the meantime, I think the review is devastating in its thoroughness. It is not even in the same universe with what Dehlin has done. This, accompanied by his history of the same sloppiness, is convincing because there are far too many mistakes in only one of his essays. 

I'll add that his goof about Egypt is jaw dropping. That is huge and I don't think it is possible to give anything credibility that follows that kind of ignorance.

Edited February 14, 2019 by juliann

[ALarson]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Here are two of the reviews.  The Review's points are in Green with Dehlin's Essay quotes in Blue.  My words are in Black.

On the use of the word Scimitar:  

"While there certinaly are legitimate issues worth discussing about the Book of Mormon and archaeology, Dehlin’s essay on the subject is full of things that simply are not true. Take, for instance, this paragraph about the cimeter (more commonly spelled scimitar today):

Dehlin's Essay claims:  Cimeter: The curved, bladed weapon, mentioned 3 times in the Book of Mormon, originated with the Ottoman empire in the 9th Century. Not only is it an Asian word for blade, it’s also made of anachronistic steel. It remains unknown how Lehi would be aware of it, as the word was unused in any contemporary Hebrew literature.

The Review's Counter to that claim:

The Origins of Curved, Bladed Weapons

Curved, bladed weapons—which scholars freely call scimitars—have been known since the Bronze Age. Some scholars believe such weapons were known in the ancient Near East as early as the 3rd millennium BC.1 It’s certainly attested by the 2nd millennium BC. Describing weapons from the Later Bronze Age (ca. 1550–1200 BC), archaeologist Amihai Mazar wrote, “Sickle-shaped scimitars are known both from actual finds and from Egyptian artistic depictions.”2 Mazer shows an illustration of the Egyptian weapon, which he captions as “a scimitar.” 

In Canaan, “the curved sickle-sword, r scimitar” is known even earlier, in the Middle Bronze Age.3 An Egyptian text written in the early 2nd millennium BC mentions the plundering of weapons, including scimitars, from Canaanite towns: “copper-cum-wood [weapons]: (battle)-axes, 10; scimitars, 33; daggers, 12; knives (?), 11.”4

There’s even evidence that Israelites specifically used curved-bladed swords. Boyd Seevers, an expert in Old Testament warfare, said, “Likely the typical early Israelite sword was a sickle-sword, which had a handle attached to a straight shaft that continued into a curved blade.”5 The only known artistic depiction of Israelite swords, from Assyrian reliefs dated to ca. 700 BC, illustrates them as curved-bladed weapons.6

For what it is worth, curved weapons that leading Maya scholars Mary Miller and Simon Martin have described as “scimitar-like” are also known in Mesoamerican art going back to the early pre-Classic period (ca. 1500–900 BC).7

So the existence of curved-bladed weapons, which scholars have freely referred to as scimitars, is well attested long before the Ottoman empire or the 9th century AD. 

Asian Word for Blade

First, what’s an “Asian” word? This generalization is unhelpful, and also pretty racist. Asia is a huge continent, with literally hundreds of different languages and cultures—which includes the Middle-East, where Israel is. So technically a “Hebrew” word is an “Asian” word. 

I assume that what they mean is it’s a Persian word, but even that is not really accurate. Scimitar is an English word—and there’s no problem with it showing up in an English translation. As quoted above, Egyptologist Donald Redford used “scimitar” in his English translation of an Egyptian word referring to curved-bladed weapons from around 2000 BC.8 So again, not clear what the problem is.

As for the origins of the word, its etymology goes back to 15th century French (cimeterre) and Italian (scimitarra). It’s origins beyond that are uncertain. Some think it comes from the Persian shimshir, but others think that connection is unsatisfactory.9

Anachronistic Steel

There’s a whole section on steel elsewhere in the essay, which I or one of my compatriots might decide to deal with in detail later. For now, I’ll just say three things:

1. Steel is definitely not anachronistic for Lehi’s time. Tests performed on iron objects from the early Iron Age proved that nearly all of them were technically made of steel.10 What’s more, a steel Israelite sword has specifically been found dated to the 7th century BC.11

2. The Book of Mormon never says what their “cimeters” are made out of (Enos 1:20; Alma 27:29; Alma 44:8).

3. Scimitars needn’t necessarily be made out of steel. As noted, sickle-shaped swords referred to as scimitars by scholars are known from the Bronze Age, and where made out of bronze, and sometimes even wood. In Mesoamerica, scimitar-like blades were made out of flint.12

The Word Unused in Contemporary Hebrew Literature

Obviously, the Englishword scimitar is not used in any Hebrew literature from Lehi’s day. But as noted, words translated as “scimitar” by scholars are known in the ancient Near East, going back to well before Lehi’s day. Obviously, since Israelites had curved swords (as noted above), they probably had a word for such swords as well. And indeed, there is just such a Hebrew word: kidon (כידון), defined as “javelin or short curved sword.”13Roland De Vaux explains:

[Kîdôn] is usually translated ‘javelin’, … [m]ore probably, however, the kîdôn was a scimitar … like those shown on monuments discovered in excavations.14

In 1 Samuel 17:6 and 45, P. Kyle McCarter translates kidon as “scimitar,” and defines it as “a heavy, curved, flate-bladed, Oriental sword with a cutting edge on the outer (convex) side of the blade.”15

Significantly, the term kidon shows up twice in Jeremiah (6:23; 50:42), a contemporary prophet with Lehi—so it is used in “contemporary Hebrew literature.”

Conclusion

I honestly can’t imagine someone writing a single paragraph with more factual errors than this one. And while I’ve made it a point to cite mainstream academic sources here, it’s not like Mormon scholars have not pointed this out—in response to this very criticism—before.16 So why does critical literature, including here Dehlin’s essays, keep repeating this nonsensical claim over and over and over?

Perhaps it’s because they did nothing more than read the Wikipedia article on “scimitar”—a shallow and superficial research method if ever there was one. Or perhaps it’s because they know for many who lose faith over articles like this, it’s the cumulative effect of the arguments. Piling on one claim after another—no matter how tenuous—can overwhelm the unsuspecting reader who does not know any better, and doesn’t have the means to factcheck the information presented. 

If this is the case, it’s easy to see why critics might continue to repeat old claims long since debunked, since reducing the number of arguments does not ultimately serve the cumulative effect very well. But it’s also extremely unethical. So let’s give Dehlin the benefit of the doubt and just assume that he really just didn’t know any better—his understanding of the topic too superficial. This still seriously undermines the credibility of the essays.

Author Alexander CampbellPosted on February 13, 2019Categories Archaeology and the Book of Mormon, UncategorizedTags anachronisms, archaeology, Book of Mormon, cimeter, scimitar, steel."

On the Honey Bee:

Dehlin's Essay says:  The Mormon Stories essay on “Archaeology and the Book of Mormon” argues that the mentioning of Jaredite beekeeping is anachronistic:

“The Jaradites are described in Ether as having carried honey bees to the New World, while ignoring the improbability of transporting bees in a totally enclosed submarine for a year. The honey bee is not native to North America.”

To support this claim, the article hyperlinks to a 2006 article from ScienceDaily.

The Reviews counter to that claim:

The only reference to honeybees in the Book of Mormon is in the book of Ether:

“And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.”

Ether 2:3

Ignoring for now the arguably ancient etymology of deseret, it must be pointed out that the text actually does not describe the Jaredites taking honeybees with them across the ocean. It rather describes them carrying honeybees before they cross the ocean in the “valley of Nimrod” as they went “forth into the wilderness” (Ether 2:4–5). It might be assumed that the Jaredites took honeybees with them to the New World, but when the text catalogues New World Jaredite fauna (Ether 9:18–19), honeybees are absent.

Apiculture in ancient Egypt is documented as early as the third millennium BC.1 It is striking that the Jaredite word for honeybee, deseret, has a plausible Egyptian etymology (dšrt).2 It seems probable that Jaredite apiculture was imported from ancient Egypt, since evidence for beekeeping in Mesopotamia (the supposed homeland of the Jaredites) is scant, with the clearest data for Mesopotamian apiculture coming long after Jaredite times.3 A plausible reading of the Book of Mormon text could argue that the Jaredite honeybees did not survive the group’s pan-Mesopotamian (and pan-Eurasian?) migration.4

The claim made by Dehlin that there is no native pre-Columbian apiculture is demonstrably wrong. “Yucatan was a thriving center of apiculture from pre-Columbian times, persisting, little changed, to the present,” and there are several known native North American honeybee species.5 The Spanish described native honey-producing beekeeping upon their arrival in the Yucatan,6 and Michael D. Coe, whom Dehlin has interviewed and often cites as an authority on Book of Mormon archaeology, has discussed native Mesoamerican apiculture and specifically speaks of the “stingless honeybee” as a domesticated New World animal.7 Other scholars have also discussed the significance of apiculture in ancient Mesoamerican history and culture.8

Most recently, an article published in the journal Latin American Antiquity in June 2018 documents the existence of pre-Columbian beekeeping among the pre-Classic Maya. 

While the Jaredites are usually associated by Book of Mormon scholars with Olmec culture,9 which is older than Maya culture, the attestation of pre-Columbian Mesoamerican apiculture refutes Dehlin’s sweeping claim that “the honey bee is not native to North America.”10 In fact, the species Melipona beecheii is native to Mesoamerica, and was used for collecting honey. As were the species Partamona bilineata and Tetragonisca angustula, to name just two others. The “honey bee . . . not native to North America” spoken of in the ScienceDaily article cited by Dehlin is referring to is a different, more common species (the European honeybee or Apis mellifera).

So even if the Jaredites did manage to bring honeybees to the New World (which the Book of Mormon never actually explicitly claims happened), there is abundant archaeological and zoological evidence for their domestication and use in pre-Columbian North America. 

As in most matters related to archaeology and the Book of Mormon, Dehlin is out of date, uninformed, and demonstrably wrong.

Thanks for posting these, bluebell....I'll look into them!

Is anyone going to correct this author though with his continual usage of "Dehlin's Essay"?  Maybe that's already been addressed, but as far as I can find, Dehlin is not the author of the essay.

[Storm Rider]

4 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Thanks for posting these, bluebell....I'll look into them!

Is anyone going to correct this author though with his continual usage of "Dehlin's Essay"?  Maybe that's already been addressed, but as far as I can find, Dehlin is not the author of the essay.

Calm mentioned that; however, who site is the report listed on? Seems like he was the one that talked up how great his essays would be - not his chosen authors. So, is he responsible or not?  My take, as I have already stated, his site - his chosen essays.

[ALarson]

7 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Calm mentioned that; however, who site is the report listed on? Seems like he was the one that talked up how great his essays would be - not his chosen authors. So, is he responsible or not?  My take, as I have already stated, his site - his chosen essays.

It is still not correct to call it "Dehlin's Essay" (which gives the impression he wrote it), IMO, and then continue to address him as if he's the author (in their review....such as "the claim made by Dehlin....").  It might be more accurate to state who the actual author is and that it's been posted on Dehlin's site.

Edited February 14, 2019 by ALarson

[Gray]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

Here are two of the reviews.  The Review's points are in Green with Dehlin's Essay quotes in Blue.  My words are in Black.

On the use of the word Scimitar:  

"While there certinaly are legitimate issues worth discussing about the Book of Mormon and archaeology, Dehlin’s essay on the subject is full of things that simply are not true. Take, for instance, this paragraph about the cimeter (more commonly spelled scimitar today):

Dehlin's Essay claims:  Cimeter: The curved, bladed weapon, mentioned 3 times in the Book of Mormon, originated with the Ottoman empire in the 9th Century. Not only is it an Asian word for blade, it’s also made of anachronistic steel. It remains unknown how Lehi would be aware of it, as the word was unused in any contemporary Hebrew literature.

The Review's Counter to that claim:

The Origins of Curved, Bladed Weapons

Curved, bladed weapons—which scholars freely call scimitars—have been known since the Bronze Age. Some scholars believe such weapons were known in the ancient Near East as early as the 3rd millennium BC.1 It’s certainly attested by the 2nd millennium BC. Describing weapons from the Later Bronze Age (ca. 1550–1200 BC), archaeologist Amihai Mazar wrote, “Sickle-shaped scimitars are known both from actual finds and from Egyptian artistic depictions.”2 Mazer shows an illustration of the Egyptian weapon, which he captions as “a scimitar.” 

In Canaan, “the curved sickle-sword, r scimitar” is known even earlier, in the Middle Bronze Age.3 An Egyptian text written in the early 2nd millennium BC mentions the plundering of weapons, including scimitars, from Canaanite towns: “copper-cum-wood [weapons]: (battle)-axes, 10; scimitars, 33; daggers, 12; knives (?), 11.”4

There’s even evidence that Israelites specifically used curved-bladed swords. Boyd Seevers, an expert in Old Testament warfare, said, “Likely the typical early Israelite sword was a sickle-sword, which had a handle attached to a straight shaft that continued into a curved blade.”5 The only known artistic depiction of Israelite swords, from Assyrian reliefs dated to ca. 700 BC, illustrates them as curved-bladed weapons.6

For what it is worth, curved weapons that leading Maya scholars Mary Miller and Simon Martin have described as “scimitar-like” are also known in Mesoamerican art going back to the early pre-Classic period (ca. 1500–900 BC).7

So the existence of curved-bladed weapons, which scholars have freely referred to as scimitars, is well attested long before the Ottoman empire or the 9th century AD. 

Asian Word for Blade

First, what’s an “Asian” word? This generalization is unhelpful, and also pretty racist. Asia is a huge continent, with literally hundreds of different languages and cultures—which includes the Middle-East, where Israel is. So technically a “Hebrew” word is an “Asian” word. 

I assume that what they mean is it’s a Persian word, but even that is not really accurate. Scimitar is an English word—and there’s no problem with it showing up in an English translation. As quoted above, Egyptologist Donald Redford used “scimitar” in his English translation of an Egyptian word referring to curved-bladed weapons from around 2000 BC.8 So again, not clear what the problem is.

As for the origins of the word, its etymology goes back to 15th century French (cimeterre) and Italian (scimitarra). It’s origins beyond that are uncertain. Some think it comes from the Persian shimshir, but others think that connection is unsatisfactory.9

Anachronistic Steel

There’s a whole section on steel elsewhere in the essay, which I or one of my compatriots might decide to deal with in detail later. For now, I’ll just say three things:

1. Steel is definitely not anachronistic for Lehi’s time. Tests performed on iron objects from the early Iron Age proved that nearly all of them were technically made of steel.10 What’s more, a steel Israelite sword has specifically been found dated to the 7th century BC.11

2. The Book of Mormon never says what their “cimeters” are made out of (Enos 1:20; Alma 27:29; Alma 44:8).

3. Scimitars needn’t necessarily be made out of steel. As noted, sickle-shaped swords referred to as scimitars by scholars are known from the Bronze Age, and where made out of bronze, and sometimes even wood. In Mesoamerica, scimitar-like blades were made out of flint.12

The Word Unused in Contemporary Hebrew Literature

Obviously, the Englishword scimitar is not used in any Hebrew literature from Lehi’s day. But as noted, words translated as “scimitar” by scholars are known in the ancient Near East, going back to well before Lehi’s day. Obviously, since Israelites had curved swords (as noted above), they probably had a word for such swords as well. And indeed, there is just such a Hebrew word: kidon (כידון), defined as “javelin or short curved sword.”13Roland De Vaux explains:

[Kîdôn] is usually translated ‘javelin’, … [m]ore probably, however, the kîdôn was a scimitar … like those shown on monuments discovered in excavations.14

In 1 Samuel 17:6 and 45, P. Kyle McCarter translates kidon as “scimitar,” and defines it as “a heavy, curved, flate-bladed, Oriental sword with a cutting edge on the outer (convex) side of the blade.”15

Significantly, the term kidon shows up twice in Jeremiah (6:23; 50:42), a contemporary prophet with Lehi—so it is used in “contemporary Hebrew literature.”

Conclusion

I honestly can’t imagine someone writing a single paragraph with more factual errors than this one. And while I’ve made it a point to cite mainstream academic sources here, it’s not like Mormon scholars have not pointed this out—in response to this very criticism—before.16 So why does critical literature, including here Dehlin’s essays, keep repeating this nonsensical claim over and over and over?

Perhaps it’s because they did nothing more than read the Wikipedia article on “scimitar”—a shallow and superficial research method if ever there was one. Or perhaps it’s because they know for many who lose faith over articles like this, it’s the cumulative effect of the arguments. Piling on one claim after another—no matter how tenuous—can overwhelm the unsuspecting reader who does not know any better, and doesn’t have the means to factcheck the information presented. 

If this is the case, it’s easy to see why critics might continue to repeat old claims long since debunked, since reducing the number of arguments does not ultimately serve the cumulative effect very well. But it’s also extremely unethical. So let’s give Dehlin the benefit of the doubt and just assume that he really just didn’t know any better—his understanding of the topic too superficial. This still seriously undermines the credibility of the essays.

Author Alexander CampbellPosted on February 13, 2019Categories Archaeology and the Book of Mormon, UncategorizedTags anachronisms, archaeology, Book of Mormon, cimeter, scimitar, steel."

On the Honey Bee:

Dehlin's Essay says:  The Mormon Stories essay on “Archaeology and the Book of Mormon” argues that the mentioning of Jaredite beekeeping is anachronistic:

“The Jaradites are described in Ether as having carried honey bees to the New World, while ignoring the improbability of transporting bees in a totally enclosed submarine for a year. The honey bee is not native to North America.”

To support this claim, the article hyperlinks to a 2006 article from ScienceDaily.

The Reviews counter to that claim:

The only reference to honeybees in the Book of Mormon is in the book of Ether:

“And they did also carry with them deseret, which, by interpretation, is a honey bee; and thus they did carry with them swarms of bees, and all manner of that which was upon the face of the land, seeds of every kind.”

Ether 2:3

Ignoring for now the arguably ancient etymology of deseret, it must be pointed out that the text actually does not describe the Jaredites taking honeybees with them across the ocean. It rather describes them carrying honeybees before they cross the ocean in the “valley of Nimrod” as they went “forth into the wilderness” (Ether 2:4–5). It might be assumed that the Jaredites took honeybees with them to the New World, but when the text catalogues New World Jaredite fauna (Ether 9:18–19), honeybees are absent.

Apiculture in ancient Egypt is documented as early as the third millennium BC.1 It is striking that the Jaredite word for honeybee, deseret, has a plausible Egyptian etymology (dšrt).2 It seems probable that Jaredite apiculture was imported from ancient Egypt, since evidence for beekeeping in Mesopotamia (the supposed homeland of the Jaredites) is scant, with the clearest data for Mesopotamian apiculture coming long after Jaredite times.3 A plausible reading of the Book of Mormon text could argue that the Jaredite honeybees did not survive the group’s pan-Mesopotamian (and pan-Eurasian?) migration.4

The claim made by Dehlin that there is no native pre-Columbian apiculture is demonstrably wrong. “Yucatan was a thriving center of apiculture from pre-Columbian times, persisting, little changed, to the present,” and there are several known native North American honeybee species.5 The Spanish described native honey-producing beekeeping upon their arrival in the Yucatan,6 and Michael D. Coe, whom Dehlin has interviewed and often cites as an authority on Book of Mormon archaeology, has discussed native Mesoamerican apiculture and specifically speaks of the “stingless honeybee” as a domesticated New World animal.7 Other scholars have also discussed the significance of apiculture in ancient Mesoamerican history and culture.8

Most recently, an article published in the journal Latin American Antiquity in June 2018 documents the existence of pre-Columbian beekeeping among the pre-Classic Maya. 

While the Jaredites are usually associated by Book of Mormon scholars with Olmec culture,9 which is older than Maya culture, the attestation of pre-Columbian Mesoamerican apiculture refutes Dehlin’s sweeping claim that “the honey bee is not native to North America.”10 In fact, the species Melipona beecheii is native to Mesoamerica, and was used for collecting honey. As were the species Partamona bilineata and Tetragonisca angustula, to name just two others. The “honey bee . . . not native to North America” spoken of in the ScienceDaily article cited by Dehlin is referring to is a different, more common species (the European honeybee or Apis mellifera).

So even if the Jaredites did manage to bring honeybees to the New World (which the Book of Mormon never actually explicitly claims happened), there is abundant archaeological and zoological evidence for their domestication and use in pre-Columbian North America. 

As in most matters related to archaeology and the Book of Mormon, Dehlin is out of date, uninformed, and demonstrably wrong.

I don't know why so many critics keep harping on material objects. The theology and doctrines of the Book of Mormon are far more anachronistic in a more obvious way. That would certainly more interesting than the 4001st debate about steel and honey bees.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Gray

[cinepro]

7 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

It is hard to imagine a sociopath with a PhD in psychology, but I cannot think of any other rational explanation for his almost suicidal approach (he seems to want to get "caught").  Storm Rider suggests that Dehlin is "atrociously lazy" or a "charlatan."  I am mystified.

I think the simplest explanation is that Dehlin really believes in what he is doing and is sincere, despite his mistakes and ineptitude. 

Kind of a "pious fraud", if you will.

[HappyJackWagon]

48 minutes ago, juliann said:

I would and do. But those who make a living from it while claiming to be more accurate than what they criticize should be subject to more scrutiny. Dehlin now bears the burden of correcting this critique. And good luck with that given it has buried him in sources. I'll wait for Dehlin to pick it apart but in the meantime, I think the review is devastating in its thoroughness. It is not even in the same universe with what Dehlin has done. This, accompanied by his history of the same sloppiness, is convincing because there are far too many mistakes in only one of his essays. 

I'll add that his goof about Egypt is jaw dropping. That is huge and I don't think it is possible to give anything credibility that follows that kind of ignorance.

I'm asking because I don't know: Has anyone done detailed critiques of the Church essays? And if so, did the church bear the burden of correcting the critique.

I agree that the critique should be subject to scrutiny. I don't have a problem with that. But I don't know why it should bear any more scrutiny than the church's essays. I don't know who wrote them all specifically, but my understanding is that scholars, academics, historians etc wrote (or at least heavily contributed to the church essays). These are professionals. They get paid, so I would assume the same level of scrutiny would apply. The church obviously has access to far more resources in both monies and material documents. I would expect the church to be held to a higher standard than Dehlin, regardless of his claims. That said, sloppy work doesn't do his case any favors.

 

[juliann]

14 minutes ago, ALarson said:

It is still not correct to call it "Dehlin's Essay" (which gives the impression he wrote it), IMO, and then continue to address him as if he's the author (in their review....such as "the claim made by Dehlin....").  It might be more accurate to state who the actual author is and that it's been posted on Dehlin's site.

If it was used as a formal reference or something, of course. Otherwise I think it is unreasonable to expect to see essays that were announced by Dehlin as something he solicited, and put on his website called anything but his essays. I recall he was proud of his sources, none of which were academically sound.

Even when authors were identified on FM, it was consistently referred to as FM’s product even when a disclaimer was posted. 

Has Dehlin posted any disclaimer that the essay is the work of the author and may or may not reflect his views?

[bluebell]

30 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Thanks for posting these, bluebell....I'll look into them!

Is anyone going to correct this author though with his continual usage of "Dehlin's Essay"?  Maybe that's already been addressed, but as far as I can find, Dehlin is not the author of the essay.

If he commissioned the Essays and paid someone to write them and authorized them to be placed on his site then I don’t personally see a problem with that label.

It’s kind of like saying “Disney’s Star Wars,” from my perspective. 

[ALarson]

23 minutes ago, juliann said:

If it was used as a formal reference or something, of course. Otherwise I think it is unreasonable to expect to see essays that were announced by Dehlin as something he solicited, and put on his website called anything but his essays. 

I see your point, but when it's written like this.....

Quote

While the Jaredites are usually associated by Book of Mormon scholars with Olmec culture,9 which is older than Maya culture, the attestation of pre-Columbian Mesoamerican apiculture refutes Dehlin’s sweeping claim that “the honey bee is not native to North America.”10 In fact, the species Melipona beecheii is native to Mesoamerica, and was used for collecting honey. As were the species Partamona bilineata and Tetragonisca angustula, to name just two others. The “honey bee . . . not native to North America” spoken of in the ScienceDaily article cited by Dehlin is referring to is a different, more common species (the European honeybee or Apis mellifera).

....It most definitely gives the impression that Dehlin is the author of these essays.

I'd imagine most who come across this website and read the review will come away believing they were actually written by Dehlin.  Not that big of a deal to me....just looking at what would be most accurate and fair.  I'm certainly no Dehlin fan!

Edited February 14, 2019 by ALarson

[bluebell]

46 minutes ago, Gray said:

I don't know why so many critics keep harping on material objects. The theology and doctrines of the Book of Mormon are far more anachronistic in a more obvious way. That would certainly more interesting than the 4001st debate about steel and honey bees.

Probably because proving that your theological and doctrinal critique of a religious doctrine, item, or church, is valid is really really hard.  Science can't really do it.

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, bluebell said:

If he commissioned the Essays and paid someone to write them and authorized them to be placed on his site then I don’t personally see a problem with that label.

It’s kind of like saying “Disney’s Star Wars,” from my perspective. 

I think it is even stronger than that - look at Mormon Stories website - it does not list an author.  If you can find it, please do, but skimming the article I saw nothing. 

My goodness, folks are straining at this fly - so it is his site, he chooses to advertise his "truth" claims about Mormonism, does not list the author(s) of the article - and we are supposed to make it clear that Dehlin was not the real author and that all the errors are someone else's or the fault of uncited authors and Dehlin should be left walking daintily about spouting "truth" claims about a topic of which he demonstrates he knows very little.

Hmm, ya gotta love it when critics bend so far over backwards to excuse him. And we are told that Mormons wear blinders.  

Edited February 14, 2019 by Storm Rider