Who is a widow supposed to marry...?

[Lola]

I am a young(ish) widow (who was sealed to my first husband) and want to remarry.   I’ve had 2 men tell me that they would want to date me but that they want to to be sealed to their spouse (and… I cannot be).  So…  who am I supposed to marry?  Non-LDS or another widower obviously… but how is that fair?  

Anyone have a decent or real explanation? (other than God will work it out...)

[Jeanne]

Just marry who you love.  I am still in love with my husband..though not sealed in any temple...but I know that he would not want me to settle for less .  I don't envy your task here...but you are young so follow your heart.  You will know what to do when the time comes.  It isn't fair...that is why I don't think any of this is as important and having love that makes you a better person.

[MorningStar]

I'm so sorry for the loss of your husband. I don't have any good advice, but I know you'll meet someone. 

[Lola]

Thank you ladies for your sentiments...  ❤️...  but, that wasn’t my question.    

Yes... we should marry who we love, obviously.   But what if who I love wants to be sealed?   Or what if I want someone who is serious in the church (and anyone who is serious, is going to want to be sealed).  

Does anyone have any official doctrine on what the church expects widows in that position  to do?

[Storm Rider]

1 hour ago, Lola said:

I am a young(ish) widow (who was sealed to my first husband) and want to remarry.   I’ve had 2 men tell me that they would want to date me but that they want to to be sealed to their spouse (and… I cannot be).  So…  who am I supposed to marry?  Non-LDS or another widower obviously… but how is that fair?  

Anyone have a decent or real explanation? (other than God will work it out...)

You reject the answer that God will work it out; or in other words, you want knowledge now without any need for faith, patience, etc.

I don't know if there is one. I think if you were dead you could be sealed to more than one husband - in fact, you could be sealed to all your husbands that had similarly passed on. One answer may be to die and have these sealings done by your family members. Of course, that still leaves you in the position of having to "work it out" at some point in the future.

As far as being alive and being sealed to more than one husband - the easy answer is that it does not happen. However, if your potential partner is only interested in being sealed immediately in the temple then that partner is not a viable candidate for marriage for you - he does not want to marry you. If someone loves you and you love him and have been married for a while and you would like to be sealed to him - and your first husband, the one you originally were sealed to, is dead - you may want to petition for the permission to be sealed to your living husband. I don't have an example that this has happened, but my memory tells me I have heard of this happening before and I just cannot remember the parties involved. 

As far as being a disciple of Jesus Christ goes, we all must learn to live by faith. I suggest you continue to do so and put things in God's hands knowing that he loves you and will take care of each of his children. 

[Calm]

Quote

As far as being alive and being sealed to more than one husband - the easy answer is that it does not happen.

That is not true (unless you are talking about divorce and not widowhood...and even divorce may be part of the exception, though if it is very uncommon).  While not policy and info is being spread by word of mouth, exceptions are being granted to have second sealings.  I know of several for widows and a possible case for a divorce (don't know the people involved unlike a couple of the widow cases). 

Lola, talk to your bishop about the possibility. If he is unaware of it, I can probably hook you up with a bishop who appealed for and got the exception for a widow several years ago.  He could give you the info on the process and maybe talk to your bishop.

What that means in the eternities is not defined beyond "God will work it out", but if one assumes polygyny can work in the eternities, why not polyandry? ( not saying polyandry is certain, I just think it is likely as certain as polygyny)  Sealings for women must be as meaningful in the eternities as they are for men and are not just paperwork to make women feel good in the here and now or the whole system is meaningless imo.

You may not want a second sealing, but just letting you know that is an option.

Revelation imo hasn't been shared on why we have the imbalance, I think the only way you will find it is through seeking it from God yourself.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Calm

[bluebell]

The one woman who I knew in such a situation canceled her sealing to her first husband.  However, she had no children to consider and was very young (still in her early 20s) so I think that everyone in her life (including her husband's family) was pushing her toward that decision.

I agree that it seems like an impossible situation for a widow who does not want to go that route.  I think I would write a letter to an apostle and ask them if he could speak about the subject in GC and perhaps give some hope or guidance to those in your shoes.

[Calm]

If you want official doctrine, I would suggest doing a search on lds.org, but pay attention to who is writing in and how it is presented (its purpose may be more supportive  than explanatory).  Got appts or would find some for you.

[juliann]

You will have to endure some mansplaining but in the meantime....

I was in your situation. I ended up marrying a nonmember and raised a daughter in the church. 

I was very disappointed this situation was not resolved with the other temple changes. I know a woman who was sealed twice and have seen reports of others. It is happening. But it would depend on who your local leaders are. 

There are men who will give up a sealing to be with the woman they love. It is all the same in the end because women are sealed to all husbands after death..which makes this cruel policy even more incomprehensible. Not to mention this policy that favors men ends up hurting them as well every time a woman is forced to cancel a dead husband’s sealing. 

This has to change and women may need to be more outspoken about it. But until that happens, all I can do is commiserate with you. 

[katherine the great]

I personally only know one sealed young widow who was given permission to be sealed to a second husband. She found out she was pregnant after her first husband died (very young). She was not required to cancel her first sealing and she didn't want to since she loved him and he was the father of her first child. However, her second husband agreed to marry her without knowing (or even hoping) that he would be able to be sealed to her. He just loved her very much (and she him) and hoped God would make it right someday. I don't know how it all came about but she was able to be sealed to him as well and they had children together. This was back in the late 80's and I had never heard of that being done before (but I thought it was marvelous!) Around this same time I also knew a couple of  young, very active men who married previously sealed widows. I don't know whether or not they were eventually able to be sealed to their wives or not. It's kind of mysterious and I'm not sure if there is a blanket rule.

[Calm]

2 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

This was back in the late 80's and I had never heard of that being done before (but I thought it was marvelous!)

Iirc, someone mentioned on the board it happened to his grandmother, so while it appears to be increasing (I keep finding new people who said they know of at least one case) in recent years, it has happened possibly all along.

[Calm]

5 minutes ago, katherine the great said:

. It's kind of mysterious and I'm not sure if there is a blanket rule

Like other exceptions, a bishop has to apply for it, so very dependent imo on local leaders' feelings.

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, juliann said:

You will have to endure some mansplaining but in the meantime....

http://mormonmomma.com/mormon-feminists-remove-mansplaining/

[Rain]

I've known 2 young widows.  The first was finally able to find someone willing to marry her anyway, though he had reservations.  The second had her sealing cancelled and that really caused some problems in the first husband's family with family members leaving the church over it. 

I am so sorry for the loss of your husband and for having to go through this.  I know it isn't easy. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Rain

[katherine the great]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

http://mormonmomma.com/mormon-feminists-remove-mansplaining/

 I won’t quote it but Eor’s comment is worth a read. 

[Calm]

7 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

http://mormonmomma.com/mormon-feminists-remove-mansplaining/

So you would be okay if she said "you will have to endure some patronizing and condescending from some men...."?

Juliann has lived the experience of widowhood in the Church and talked with other women who have as well.  Helping Lola be aware of the variety of experience she would likely experience seems appropriate to the topic.

[Calm]

6 hours ago, katherine the great said:

 I won’t quote it but Eor’s comment is worth a read. 

Well, I am going to quote part of it because I think it is important to accurately define the term before criticizing  it, otherwise it becomes a waste of time trashing a strawman:

Quote

.....mansplaining is a specific action. It isn’t just when men explain things. So no, it isn’t like women being dismissed due to their sex–men are not being dismissed, just the ones that assume their experience/knowledge/etc… is more correct by virtue of their penis.

Some people may misuse it.  Assuming everyone does, well, that is contrary to my experience and the pretty absolute nature of her criticism makes me wonder about bias interfering with interpretation.

Edited January 17, 2019 by Calm

[The Nehor]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

http://mormonmomma.com/mormon-feminists-remove-mansplaining/

She oversimplifies what mansplaining means in order to discount it.

[The Nehor]

22 hours ago, Lola said:

I am a young(ish) widow (who was sealed to my first husband) and want to remarry.   I’ve had 2 men tell me that they would want to date me but that they want to to be sealed to their spouse (and… I cannot be).  So…  who am I supposed to marry?  Non-LDS or another widower obviously… but how is that fair?  

Anyone have a decent or real explanation? (other than God will work it out...)

I have no explanation. I admit I as a single guy would be hesitant to marry someone in your situation. Mostly because I want the blessings of the ordinance of sealing.

I am hopeful for a shift where multiple sealings following the death of a spouse are allowed for both genders. I see no reason that one cannot be tied to multiple people for eternity in the next world where the reasons it would not work here are absent.

[Tacenda]

I think it is wrong that the church comes between the happiness of single/widowed members once again. And it's totally up in the air and like jello on the wall when some get sealings ok'd and others don't. I know women that stay single because they can't find an LDS man to marry in their older age. They hold out for the eternities. Just so tired of this. Sorry Lola, that you're dealing with this. And hopefully haven't offended anyone. I'm on the outskirts of the church. I feel for you and feel for the men that want to be sealed. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Tacenda

[juliann]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

So you would be okay if she said "you will have to endure some patronizing and condescending from some men...."?

I have to admit I get a kick out of the indignant reactions of the dwindling numbers of men who still think it is every woman’s duty to listen to them explain how we should think, feel, and act about life events they have never experienced and never will. 

I won’t coddle their delicate feelings about being dismissed from women’s conversations about women’s experiences anymore. Think of it as women being barred from GC priesthood sessions,  guys. Surely you can handle it as graciously as women do. 

Oh.... and to save you from having to rail about being told you can’t say anything at all, read the actual definition of mansplaining over and over and over until you can recite it by heart. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by juliann

[strappinglad]

Let's suppose that the sealing to your first husband was canceled. So your first husband has no say in the matter? Then you marry a fellow and are sealed in the temple and 10 years later he cheats on you and you divorce. Now what ? Do you get the second sealing canceled and reinstate the first? Again your first husband has no say in the matter? With few exceptions, sealings are promises of future blessings predicated on life choices etc. The answer that " God will work it out ", is the only one that holds for all the crazy combinations that we humans create. ( Sorry if I 'spained it poorly)

[Tacenda]

26 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Let's suppose that the sealing to your first husband was canceled. So your first husband has no say in the matter? Then you marry a fellow and are sealed in the temple and 10 years later he cheats on you and you divorce. Now what ? Do you get the second sealing canceled and reinstate the first? Again your first husband has no say in the matter? With few exceptions, sealings are promises of future blessings predicated on life choices etc. The answer that " God will work it out ", is the only one that holds for all the crazy combinations that we humans create. ( Sorry if I 'spained it poorly)

You mean the church creates?

[juliann]

36 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

Let's suppose that the sealing to your first husband was canceled. So your first husband has no say in the matter? Then you marry a fellow and are sealed in the temple and 10 years later he cheats on you and you divorce. Now what ? Do you get the second sealing canceled and reinstate the first? Again your first husband has no say in the matter? With few exceptions, sealings are promises of future blessings predicated on life choices etc. The answer that " God will work it out ", is the only one that holds for all the crazy combinations that we humans create. ( Sorry if I 'spained it poorly)

Says someone who will never be in that circumstance because it is all worked out for men who want to be sealed to multiple women. 

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, strappinglad said:

Let's suppose that the sealing to your first husband was canceled. So your first husband has no say in the matter? Then you marry a fellow and are sealed in the temple and 10 years later he cheats on you and you divorce. Now what ? Do you get the second sealing canceled and reinstate the first? Again your first husband has no say in the matter? With few exceptions, sealings are promises of future blessings predicated on life choices etc. The answer that " God will work it out ", is the only one that holds for all the crazy combinations that we humans create. ( Sorry if I 'spained it poorly)

"God will work it out" doesn't help Lola at all right now, though who wants to remarry an active believing member of the church but can't find any that are willing to forego the blessings of being sealed to a spouse in the here and now.

So while you see that answer as 'the only answer', in terms of Lola's predicament, it's not really an answer at all.