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A short observation, and short question.


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I have posted a few threads about recent changes in Priesthood restructing of Priesthood Quorums, this one is different. My comments here, I have never shared with my Elder's Quorum President; ever! All I have ever done or said, was to offer my support in any way I can. I have also done all my physical limitations will allow. I have only volunteered to teach twice since the change, and then only sought to lead discussions. 

Two Sunday's ago, a member of my Bishopric decided to attend for a short time while for my Priesthood class. Then he and the Elder's Quorum President left the class together. The following Sunday I was issued a call in the Sunday School Presidency. In that meeting, he said; "because you will be so consumed in Sunday School activities , you will have no time to teach in Priesthood". When I reminded him Priesthood was the third hour, he said, "I know, but unless there is an emergency, or some extenuating circumstances, there will be no need for you to teach". I then told him that I was not the teacher in Priesthood, he acknowledged this, and told me, "I know, you are not going to be released, but there is no need for you to teach".  I asked if there had been some complaints about my teaching? He then said; "no, every class you teach, I hear nothing but wonderful comments". I think maybe, after the only two classes, fellow High Priests often line up to thank me for my classes, even some Elders. So I wonder if our Elder's Quorom President feels like or think I am taking advantage, or some other issue. In fact the only two classes I volunteered to teach was at the end of the first, or Fast Sunday, when no one else would volunteer.  

So, I assured the Elder's Quorum President that I would no longer volunteer to teach, and would limit my comments, nor offer any. He seemed pleased, and the Sunday School pleased that in the absence of a teacher that I willing to teach. So the the Sunday School President was not told that I was not to teach. Thankfully, we have many faithful teachers in Sunday School who are almost always present, except for Sunday last, where I was needed, all where pleased with the class, lesson and discussion. 

No matter what, I WILL faithfully perform my calling, without murrmering, or a negative attitude, and I pray this thread, nor my comments will seem or appear as if I am complaining. I am just musing, and asking if anyoneelse ha been, through something like this,  "shown the door", so to speak. I am a proud (not in a bad way) faithful member, and always will be!  And always do as I am asked. 

 

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28 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have posted a few threads about recent changes in Priesthood restructing of Priesthood Quorums, this one is different. My comments here, I have never shared with my Elder's Quorum President; ever! All I have ever done or said, was to offer my support in any way I can. I have also done all my physical limitations will allow. I have only volunteered to teach twice since the change, and then only sought to lead discussions. 

Two Sunday's ago, a member of my Bishopric decided to attend for a short time while for my Priesthood class. Then he and the Elder's Quorum President left the class together. The following Sunday I was issued a call in the Sunday School Presidency. In that meeting, he said; "because you will be so consumed in Sunday School activities , you will have no time to teach in Priesthood". When I reminded him Priesthood was the third hour, he said, "I know, but unless there is an emergency, or some extenuating circumstances, there will be no need for you to teach". I then told him that I was not the teacher in Priesthood, he acknowledged this, and told me, "I know, you are not going to be released, but there is no need for you to teach".  I asked if there had been some complaints about my teaching? He then said; "no, every class you teach, I hear nothing but wonderful comments". I think maybe, after the only two classes, fellow High Priests often line up to thank me for my classes, even some Elders. So I wonder if our Elder's Quorom President feels like or think I am taking advantage, or some other issue. In fact the only two classes I volunteered to teach was at the end of the first, or Fast Sunday, when no one else would volunteer.  

So, I assured the Elder's Quorum President that I would no longer volunteer to teach, and would limit my comments, nor offer any. He seemed pleased, and the Sunday School pleased that in the absence of a teacher that I willing to teach. So the the Sunday School President was not told that I was not to teach. Thankfully, we have many faithful teachers in Sunday School who are almost always present, except for Sunday last, where I was needed, all where pleased with the class, lesson and discussion. 

No matter what, I WILL faithfully perform my calling, without murrmering, or a negative attitude, and I pray this thread, nor my comments will seem or appear as if I am complaining. I am just musing, and asking if anyoneelse ha been, through something like this,  "shown the door", so to speak. I am a proud (not in a bad way) faithful member, and always will be!  And always do as I am asked. 

 

Baffling!! 

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33 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

In fact the only two classes I volunteered to teach was at the end of the first, or Fast Sunday, when no one else would volunteer.  

An elders quorum president who, instead of duly calling and setting apart an instructor (or instructors), asks for volunteers gets, well, volunteers. If he doesn't want you to teach, the simple solution is not to ask for volunteers. Do you by any chance live in Duncan's stake? It seems your ward would fit in well there ...

I'm the sort of person who, if the call for volunteers continued to be made, would keep putting up my hand. I don't do passive-aggressive, in the Church or anywhere else.

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33 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have posted a few threads about recent changes in Priesthood restructing of Priesthood Quorums, this one is different. My comments here, I have never shared with my Elder's Quorum President; ever! All I have ever done or said, was to offer my support in any way I can. I have also done all my physical limitations will allow. I have only volunteered to teach twice since the change, and then only sought to lead discussions. 

Two Sunday's ago, a member of my Bishopric decided to attend for a short time while for my Priesthood class. Then he and the Elder's Quorum President left the class together. The following Sunday I was issued a call in the Sunday School Presidency. In that meeting, he said; "because you will be so consumed in Sunday School activities , you will have no time to teach in Priesthood". When I reminded him Priesthood was the third hour, he said, "I know, but unless there is an emergency, or some extenuating circumstances, there will be no need for you to teach". I then told him that I was not the teacher in Priesthood, he acknowledged this, and told me, "I know, you are not going to be released, but there is no need for you to teach".  I asked if there had been some complaints about my teaching? He then said; "no, every class you teach, I hear nothing but wonderful comments". I think maybe, after the only two classes, fellow High Priests often line up to thank me for my classes, even some Elders. So I wonder if our Elder's Quorom President feels like or think I am taking advantage, or some other issue. In fact the only two classes I volunteered to teach was at the end of the first, or Fast Sunday, when no one else would volunteer.  

So, I assured the Elder's Quorum President that I would no longer volunteer to teach, and would limit my comments, nor offer any. He seemed pleased, and the Sunday School pleased that in the absence of a teacher that I willing to teach. So the the Sunday School President was not told that I was not to teach. Thankfully, we have many faithful teachers in Sunday School who are almost always present, except for Sunday last, where I was needed, all where pleased with the class, lesson and discussion. 

No matter what, I WILL faithfully perform my calling, without murrmering, or a negative attitude, and I pray this thread, nor my comments will seem or appear as if I am complaining. I am just musing, and asking if anyoneelse ha been, through something like this,  "shown the door", so to speak. I am a proud (not in a bad way) faithful member, and always will be!  And always do as I am asked. 

 

It takes two for offenses to happen, one to give offense, the other to take offense! ;)

We are all only human. 

I have noticed that our elders do seem to be somewhat obviously "tolerant" of us old guys, including a bit of an edge of impatience, while being supposedly "patient"with our more in-depth explanations than they are used to.

Quite honestly they just don't have the church experience that we do. They don't know the doctrine as well, they ask questions that we would think everyone knows the answer to, and want everything done quickly and without further explanation, and therefore in a more superficial way.

They are looking for easy instead of profound.

I get what you're saying but I wouldn't let it get to you.

I think the difference between the groups is quite noticeable in temperament etcetera.

It will definitely take some getting used to. 

Even though it has nothing to do with my calling I have high priests calling me all the time to act as a liaison with the elders quorum. 

The high priests seem to think that the elders are disorganized and can't put-together lessons, or follow the lesson schedule.

The elders seem to think that we are overly strict, demanding, and can't keep up with the times.

It's just old guys versus new guys. Notice I didn't say young guys. There's a very real difference.

It's more like after you been working for a company for 30 years and then some new guy comes in and wants to change everything, not knowing what has been tried and doesn't work.

Oh well. That's life.

They will learn then they will be the old guys. ;)

Don't let it get to you my friend. 🙃

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18 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

An elders quorum president who, instead of duly calling and setting apart an instructor (or instructors), asks for volunteers gets, well, volunteers. If he doesn't want you to teach, the simple solution is not to ask for volunteers. Do you by any chance live in Duncan's stake? It seems your ward would fit in well there ...

I'm the sort of person who, if the call for volunteers continued to be made, would keep putting up my hand. I don't do passive-aggressive, in the Church or anywhere else.

Gosh you're talking as if you're experienced or something. ;)

 

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1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

I have posted a few threads about recent changes in Priesthood restructing of Priesthood Quorums, this one is different. My comments here, I have never shared with my Elder's Quorum President; ever! All I have ever done or said, was to offer my support in any way I can. I have also done all my physical limitations will allow. I have only volunteered to teach twice since the change, and then only sought to lead discussions. 

Two Sunday's ago, a member of my Bishopric decided to attend for a short time while for my Priesthood class. Then he and the Elder's Quorum President left the class together. The following Sunday I was issued a call in the Sunday School Presidency. In that meeting, he said; "because you will be so consumed in Sunday School activities , you will have no time to teach in Priesthood". When I reminded him Priesthood was the third hour, he said, "I know, but unless there is an emergency, or some extenuating circumstances, there will be no need for you to teach". I then told him that I was not the teacher in Priesthood, he acknowledged this, and told me, "I know, you are not going to be released, but there is no need for you to teach".  I asked if there had been some complaints about my teaching? He then said; "no, every class you teach, I hear nothing but wonderful comments". I think maybe, after the only two classes, fellow High Priests often line up to thank me for my classes, even some Elders. So I wonder if our Elder's Quorom President feels like or think I am taking advantage, or some other issue. In fact the only two classes I volunteered to teach was at the end of the first, or Fast Sunday, when no one else would volunteer.  

So, I assured the Elder's Quorum President that I would no longer volunteer to teach, and would limit my comments, nor offer any. He seemed pleased, and the Sunday School pleased that in the absence of a teacher that I willing to teach. So the the Sunday School President was not told that I was not to teach. Thankfully, we have many faithful teachers in Sunday School who are almost always present, except for Sunday last, where I was needed, all where pleased with the class, lesson and discussion. 

No matter what, I WILL faithfully perform my calling, without murrmering, or a negative attitude, and I pray this thread, nor my comments will seem or appear as if I am complaining. I am just musing, and asking if anyoneelse ha been, through something like this,  "shown the door", so to speak. I am a proud (not in a bad way) faithful member, and always will be!  And always do as I am asked. 

I thought you handled things well until the last sentence, "always do as I am asked."  No need to give up on your independent opinions or to cease being a thinking Mormon.  The Bishop's authority is limited.  He cannot interfere in Sunday School and EQ discussions.  You still have free agency, and the Brethren intend for all our discussions to be open-ended, unless you have been disfellowshipped.

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1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

The high priests seem to think that the elders are disorganized and can't put-together lessons, or follow the lesson schedule.

The elders seem to think that we are overly strict, demanding, and can't keep up with the times.

Interesting. We are all just elders in our elders quorum. I thought that was the whole point of having a single unified quorum. :unknw:

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28 minutes ago, Hamba Tuhan said:

Interesting. We are all just elders in our elders quorum. I thought that was the whole point of having a single unified quorum. :unknw:

That's just the feeling I get.

We are not as unified as I'm sure we will eventually be.

But you mean there are no serving High Priests which meet in your EQ?

And besides the fact that your ward appears to be pretty close to perfect.

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42 minutes ago, mfbukowski said:

But you mean there are no serving High Priests which meet in your EQ?

No, we have two members of the stake high council in our elders quorum, but like the rest of us who have been ordained high priests, they just function as elders in the quorum. I guess I hadn't really thought about them, but in my case, I identify myself as an elder. I think it's exactly the same as ordained bishops who used to belong to each ward's high priests group.

More importantly, I have seen zero evidence of disunity along the line of priesthood office in our quorum. At all.

Quote

And besides the fact that your ward appears to be pretty close to perfect.

So far from it, but seriously, we don't seem to have these conflicts and divisions and outbreaks of tribalism that seem to occur in your wards and stakes. Church is the place we all go to escape conflicts and divisions.

Half of the younger men in our elders quorum were young men when half of the older men were in a bishopric or the Young Men presidency, so it may help that we're all just used to serving, worshipping and playing together. And we've been doing that through home teachings assignments for a long time as well. (I think it's been 14 years since the last time I had another adult male as my companion.)

Edited by Hamba Tuhan
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I am not sure of the value of discovering the motivations for callings, etc. Take it at face value - you were called to serve in the SSP. I would not worry about how clumsy they may or may not have been in talking about teaching elsewhere. Sometimes leaders just want more people involved in areas.  

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15 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

I thought you handled things well until the last sentence, "always do as I am asked."  No need to give up on your independent opinions or to cease being a thinking Mormon.  The Bishop's authority is limited.  He cannot interfere in Sunday School and EQ discussions.  You still have free agency, and the Brethren intend for all our discussions to be open-ended, unless you have been disfellowshipped.

Well, I assure you that only this applies to doing what my Priesthood leaders ask. Also, to avoid the temptation of speaking out, answering questions, or taking part, for one such as myself, no longer attending seems the better part of valor. .  

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34 minutes ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said:

Well, I assure you that only this applies to doing what my Priesthood leaders ask. Also, to avoid the temptation of speaking out, answering questions, or taking part, for one such as myself, no longer attending seems the better part of valor. .  

Priesthood leaders cannot ask you not to attend or not to participate short of disfellowshipping you.  Otherwise they are exercising unrighteous dominion and need to be ignored.

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4 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Priesthood leaders cannot ask you not to attend or not to participate short of disfellowshipping you.  Otherwise they are exercising unrighteous dominion and need to be ignored.

I was only asked not to volunteer to teach, that if we need you, don't too paraphrase). So if we need you we will let you know, if there is an emergency, or extenuating circumstances,, of course they would never ask me not to attend Priesthood. I am and have always been a member in good standing, for the last 39+ years. I have served in the Elder's Quorum Presidency, Bishopric, High Priest Group leader, Gospel Doctrine, and Gospel Essentials Teacher, each in that order without a break, which accounts for 18+ consecutive years. But it would seem that my lessons or comments, are unwanted, presently. Prior to the change, I was serving as the Teacher in High Priest's Group. When the High Priests and Elders merged, I have only taughtI two classes, and only because, one or none should offer to teach, and volunteering while elbows were being shoved into my ribs. Many were in the Elder's Quorum when I served in the Presidency, and even more were in the High Priest Group, when I was group leader for a very long time. Also, up until the recent change, I "was" the instructor in the High Priest Group. In any event, maybe my Elder's Quorum President thinks, I am still trying to direct the Quorum by volunteering to teach, although only twice, and only because those two months, no one else would volunteer. 

Before my back injury, I was a very successful public speaker. I traveled around the State (ab out of Satat.j) speaking, and being paid very well, teaching classes on my professions. I  taught two, sometimes four nights a week at a local Community College for 25 years. I wish my ability to teach was reflective in my ability to write. It would seem this thread has caused some confusion. But my classes to Police, and math classes and calculations for electricians, preparing for licensing exams. Had a woman whom I was making electrician repairs for (for free), she told one tell me, "you know Brother Lee, you are an oddity, you write wonderful poetry and are so well spoken, and very technical". I could not tell if, it was a compliment, or an insult, so I sheepishly said, "thank you, I guess".  

I hope I was more clear about these comments , but God bless you all.

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5 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Well, O.K.  I guess they want to give the young whippersnappers a chance to do all that stuff.

It would seem, just hope they will volunteer or the EQP will start making assignment. 

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On 10/3/2018 at 7:26 PM, Tacenda said:

Baffling!! 

Yes, very.

Years ago while I was serving as a stake missionary (which I did for 8 years) I inexplicably got called to teach the 16/17 year olds in Sunday School (inexplicably, because normally stake missionaries weren't supposed to have other callings).  I did this for a year, and according to the SS president I was doing a good job.  Then suddenly I was released and another brother called to take my place.  Three weeks after he took over the class he got called into the bishopric.  Then they asked if I would be willing to come back to the class.  I told them "No".  I was quite baffled about the whole thing.

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