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A reflection


poptart

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I had all but decided to just cut ties with organized religion in the states, after the experience I had in Washington it was like my childhood, always bothered me that religious people here have no qualms stepping on eachother and using their religion as an excuse for their garbage tier behavior.  Anyway, strangest thing happened, a few weeks ago the mormon i knew reached out just to say hello.  Did not expect that, thought since I was not one of them and was no longer around that I would be off the radar.  That was one thing I had noticed about mormons and religious people in general, once you're gone that's it they forget about you.  I was a bit suprised, he actually cared.  Granted he was the oddball, he voted for obama twice and actually cared for those outside of his ward, I remember being told by wealthier members that they weren't a charity before walking away.  (This was when I was being hounded by my father out of spite for me taking a restraining order out on him for almost murdering my mom and trying to press bogus charges against me)  I've come to the realization mormons really aren't any worse than any other religious group out there, I still frown on the trouble they caused the grand lodge of Illonois, their involvement in Nazi Germany (The did cooperate with the reich, but hey so did the rest of the protestants.  The Lutherans flung open their doors to them, Martin Luther was one of Hitlers favorites), the blacks in the priesthood thing and most of all the fallout from prop 8, but I'm not naive enough to believe that they're the only ones who pulled things like that, atleast Joseph Smith didn't give us the Klan lol. 

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Did want to add a bit more, what value would a non mormon have to the greater collective?  I've had a lot of time to reflect on myself and my situation and I've come to the conclusion I've aways looked at it through the eyes of a materialist and a pagan.  The fact that i've more or less lumped the LDS together with say, a lot of the protestants probably isn't the best comparison but hey, a lot of you function in more or less the same way.  TBH, they're a stable resource and in the states nowadays that's rare.  They were good to mom when she went to BYUH and a few of her old classmates still call her 20+ years later.  Funny, had this conversation with my friend, as an outsider who has had a far less entitled life I see the LDS church going down the road many of their protestant and evangelical neibors did, except smarter.  Prop 8 is still a sticking point for me but Utah is still quite a bit more LGBT friendly than a lot of the midwest and deep south. 

Like I said, this is a bit of a reflection, I can be irritated at how I was treated by the ward I went too but hey, to be fair pretty much everyone else was about as cold and uncaring, atleast the mormons took care of their kids and atleast the ones I knew didn't practice free range parenting. 

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42 minutes ago, poptart said:

Did want to add a bit more, what value would a non mormon have to the greater collective?  I've had a lot of time to reflect on myself and my situation and I've come to the conclusion I've aways looked at it through the eyes of a materialist and a pagan.  The fact that i've more or less lumped the LDS together with say, a lot of the protestants probably isn't the best comparison but hey, a lot of you function in more or less the same way.  TBH, they're a stable resource and in the states nowadays that's rare.  They were good to mom when she went to BYUH and a few of her old classmates still call her 20+ years later.  Funny, had this conversation with my friend, as an outsider who has had a far less entitled life I see the LDS church going down the road many of their protestant and evangelical neibors did, except smarter.  Prop 8 is still a sticking point for me but Utah is still quite a bit more LGBT friendly than a lot of the midwest and deep south. 

Like I said, this is a bit of a reflection, I can be irritated at how I was treated by the ward I went too but hey, to be fair pretty much everyone else was about as cold and uncaring, atleast the mormons took care of their kids and atleast the ones I knew didn't practice free range parenting. 

Salt Lake City is very LGBT friendly. They have an openly lesbian mayor.

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I think that life is best viewed as a process. Sometimes we feel better with this group and later we feel better with another group. If one is going to be a disciple of Jesus Christ then there is a commitment to both seek truth and live by its principles. It is a common refrain for those who are not disciples of Jesus Christ to condemn them for not being perfect and being very human. I think the difference between a disciple of Christ and an individual that just seeks personal satisfaction is that they feel repentant for bad actions. 

I have been in some wards that I did not enjoy the people; we just did not click. I have found other wards where we clicked immediately. I tend to just be grateful when they click and try to be friends with others when it doesn't.

Being a disciple of Christ successfully demands that we ignore how we are treated by others and that we respond with compassion and kindness to all. 

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30 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

I think that life is best viewed as a process. Sometimes we feel better with this group and later we feel better with another group. If one is going to be a disciple of Jesus Christ then there is a commitment to both seek truth and live by its principles. It is a common refrain for those who are not disciples of Jesus Christ to condemn them for not being perfect and being very human. I think the difference between a disciple of Christ and an individual that just seeks personal satisfaction is that they feel repentant for bad actions. 

I have been in some wards that I did not enjoy the people; we just did not click. I have found other wards where we clicked immediately. I tend to just be grateful when they click and try to be friends with others when it doesn't.

Being a disciple of Christ successfully demands that we ignore how we are treated by others and that we respond with compassion and kindness to all. 

As a pagan I disagree, to me that's an excuse.  I totally judge religions and organizations by the people they turn out and well, i've not been so lucky.  Nothing makes me want to puke more than someone who's a rotten individual who just repents and keeps on doing it.  Make excuses all you like, to me it's little more than a pass for bad behavior.  Now those that "Repent" and actually try to make the world a better place?  That impresses me. 

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1 hour ago, poptart said:

As a pagan I disagree, to me that's an excuse.  I totally judge religions and organizations by the people they turn out and well, i've not been so lucky.  Nothing makes me want to puke more than someone who's a rotten individual who just repents and keeps on doing it.  Make excuses all you like, to me it's little more than a pass for bad behavior.  Now those that "Repent" and actually try to make the world a better place?  That impresses me. 

Poptart, I appreciate your bluntness. When I state that someone repents I am talking about those that actually seek to correct their shortcomings. 

On the other hand, you show me the organization that creates perfect people? Just one. Your standard is so unrealistic that it is a crutch for never taking a stand on anything while being able to condemn everyone and their faith. 

I don't give two hoots in heck if you are pagan, atheist, or a believer in any of the number of world religions, it is irrelevant to me. It is great that individuals strive to live their religion, whatever it may be, but what I do not do is sit back and issue sanctimonious condemnations because I find that they are all human. It may be time to get off that high horse and begin to accept humans as actually being human regardless of their religious affiliation.  

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42 minutes ago, Storm Rider said:

Poptart, I appreciate your bluntness. When I state that someone repents I am talking about those that actually seek to correct their shortcomings. 

On the other hand, you show me the organization that creates perfect people? Just one. Your standard is so unrealistic that it is a crutch for never taking a stand on anything while being able to condemn everyone and their faith. 

I don't give two hoots in heck if you are pagan, atheist, or a believer in any of the number of world religions, it is irrelevant to me. It is great that individuals strive to live their religion, whatever it may be, but what I do not do is sit back and issue sanctimonious condemnations because I find that they are all human. It may be time to get off that high horse and begin to accept humans as actually being human regardless of their religious affiliation.  

Part of it is my life, how i've been treated and well yeah my natural aversion to double standards.  Also, I don't believe in perfection, while my idea of diety is more along the lines of archtypes, the gods i'd look up too are very different.  One thing about the likes of me, we're honest.  The Allfather has done some not so nice things but he's honest about them, read the Poetic Edda sometime to get an idea of where some of my values come from.  By the way, catch the last part?  I love people who try to make the world a better place.  Christianity gave us the Uni system, schools, help for the poor and many wonderful saints who did work towards humanities benefit, I'd like to keep seeing that.  Now, when I see people who live in the burbs who just ignore the poor and worship their own twisted version of diety Aka the Jesus of suburbia and ignore the Christ of the Bibles main commandment and care for the least of these, or worse yet running their mouth off at our elected officials?  Hmm, wasn't there a part in the bible about submitting yourselves to authority?  That being said it makes me cringe a little when I see people bashing the prez over immigrants, wonder how many of em would be willing to let just one of them live in their homes.  I feel for the poor, yet people here cherry pick religion so much and never consider the outcome.  With that in mind, have to say the view from my horse is quite nice.  ^_^

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