Attending Church

[rongo]

Hopefully, some weeks will be better than others. Knowing in advance that some weeks are just going to be brutal. In terms of speakers, lessons, and treatment. 

I'd like to think that at least sometimes, you will be pleasantly surprised. 

[jkwilliams]

19 hours ago, rongo said:

Hopefully, some weeks will be better than others. Knowing in advance that some weeks are just going to be brutal. In terms of speakers, lessons, and treatment. 

I'd like to think that at least sometimes, you will be pleasantly surprised. 

Maybe. For some reason I wonder if I’d be subject to church discipline, given my history as a pretty outspoken critic. Not that it matters, as I’m not looking for a calling or a temple recommend. 

[SteveO]

Anytime the instructor in Sunday School or Priesthood utters the phrase, “talk to your neighbor and discuss...” I immediately place the following formula into action:

 

(Tower Defense on iPhone) + (couch in foyer) = (Tolerable 3 hour block)

Edited July 20, 2018 by SteveO

[rongo]

5 minutes ago, SteveO said:

Anytime the instructor in Sunday School or Priesthood utters the phrase, “talk to your neighbor and discuss...” I immediately place the following formula into action:

(Tower Defense on iPhone) + (couch in foyer) = (Tolerable 3 hour block)

The Church is trying to get teachers away from the lecture/class model into a more interactive, collaborative model. The problem is that I see society, schools, and churches losing the ability altogether to learn in a traditional lecture setting. There really is good in that, too --- and completely losing the ability to learn at least something from lecture classes is not a good thing. Even "bad" lessons and classes. People used to think their own thoughts about the content and attempted lessons, and that in itself is valuable. Elder McConkie spoke of always writing talks and sermons in his head, and I relate to that. Even when mind-numbingly bored, people used to be able to do that. Now, adults and kids alike have to be constantly entertained and stimulated, or they walk around a lot, play on their devices, sit in the foyer, etc. 

One of my quotes of the day I use in school is from Blaise Pascal: "All human evils stem from this: the inability to sit still in a room." I think the widening gulf between those who can and those who can't increasingly is an indicator of other things. Including wisdom and maturity. 

[SteveO]

18 minutes ago, rongo said:

The Church is trying to get teachers away from the lecture/class model into a more interactive, collaborative model. The problem is that I see society, schools, and churches losing the ability altogether to learn in a traditional lecture setting. There really is good in that, too --- and completely losing the ability to learn at least something from lecture classes is not a good thing. Even "bad" lessons and classes. People used to think their own thoughts about the content and attempted lessons, and that in itself is valuable. Elder McConkie spoke of always writing talks and sermons in his head, and I relate to that. Even when mind-numbingly bored, people used to be able to do that. Now, adults and kids alike have to be constantly entertained and stimulated, or they walk around a lot, play on their devices, sit in the foyer, etc. 

One of my quotes of the day I use in school is from Blaise Pascal: "All human evils stem from this: the inability to sit still in a room." I think the widening gulf between those who can and those who can't increasingly is an indicator of other things. Including wisdom and maturity. 

I was more kidding than anything, but I do agree with you.  The issue I have is instructors who get up there and use the "talk to your neighbor for 5 or 10 minutes" as a way to eat up time because its pretty obvious they didn't bother to prepare anything.  I actually like when our Sunday school teacher (who has the benefit of being an actual teacher at the local high school) has open discussions, but then again, he's usually directing and guiding it from a place of preparedness--which is effective.

[Rain]

On 7/18/2018 at 9:02 AM, jkwilliams said:

I hadn't been to church in quite a while until this past weekend. Since we moved back to Utah, my wife has been asking me if I would attend church with her. I don't think it's a huge sacrifice, but it was definitely awkward. I am taking the same approach I did before: focus on the good things and try to tune out the not so good. It started out OK, as the sacrament meeting talks were on the subject of service. The first talk, by a recently married young woman, started out talking about how we learn to love by serving others, which is something I strongly believe in, but then she defined service as attending the temple. Her husband's talk, although he said he was going to talk about service, was about preparing to go to the temple and how to get the most from it. The Gospel Doctrine lesson was about King Solomon and his wisdom, but it too turned out to be about temples, the last 15 minutes being a "name that temple" game.

I'm not complaining, but I'm really trying to devise some strategies for getting through 3 hours of church every week. I had to keep reminding myself, "I'm doing this for her, not for me." I don't want to end up grinding my teeth every week.

Any suggestions?

Do you still believe in God? Do you still pray? If so, how about praying along with the mediation.  It could help you be patient as you sit there.

There is a book called the Husband Project. It has things done daily to help you love your husband. You don't tell your husband about it because it is not trying to get a reward for you or have him love you. It is entirely to help you love him more.

It could easily be changed unto a wife project. What if you got it, read a chapter before church and then used the time to ponder what you will do with the chapter that week (instead of daily as the book has it).

On 7/18/2018 at 9:34 AM, Jeanne said:

How about every other week?  Then at least every 3 months or so...she spends a Sunday with you? 

I wouldn't reccomend him asking her to miss church. This is a very sacred time for her. It would be really unfair to ask her to miss it, just as it would be unfair to ask him to miss something he loves just to hang out with her. Now if there were doing something specific that conflicts I can see them trading off or even if that was the only time they have together and he has nothing specific to do. 

[Jeanne]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

Do you still believe in God? Do you still pray? If so, how about praying along with the mediation.  It could help you be patient as you sit there.

There is a book called the Husband Project. It has things done daily to help you love your husband. You don't tell your husband about it because it is not trying to get a reward for you or have him love you. It is entirely to help you love him more.

It could easily be changed unto a wife project. What if you got it, read a chapter before church and then used the time to ponder what you will do with the chapter that week (instead of daily as the book has it).

I wouldn't reccomenId him asking her to miss church. This is a very sacred time for her. It would be really unfair to ask her to miss it, just as it would be unfair to ask him to miss something he loves just to hang out with her. Now if there were doing something specific that conflicts I can see them trading off or even if that was the only time they have together and he has nothing specific to do. 

I kind of agree...but he gives up his time willingly to do this for her..once in a while it would be good for her to compromise.  One Sunday isn't going to take away a whole lot every few months and it shows that she puts her marriage as a priority also.  Just give and take. 

[Rain]

4 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I kind of agree...but he gives up his time willingly to do this for her..once in a while it would be good for her to compromise.  One Sunday isn't going to take away a whole lot every few months and it shows that she puts her marriage as a priority also.  Just give and take. 

I don't have ANY problem with her giving up her time willingly.  That is very important and all spouses should do that. 

 Compromise would be, "I see your church schedule conflicts with my (church schedule, game, class, whatever).  Let's go to my activity one week and your church another week." Or "I would love to go with you to church at 9.  Would you to the game with me at 1?" Or "I'd be happy to attend every other week. ' 

What you suggested (unless their time together is quite limited)) is just asking her to miss something that is a big part of her. It's not even 2% of the week so I would assume there is some other time she could be with him doing what he would like other than church time.  

John - I love what you are doing.  I hope that you can figure out what you can do while at church to keep you happy.  I know all this must have been very hard on both of you and I love that you are putting such an effort into helping her feel loved.  

[jkwilliams]

I didn't go yesterday, as I strained some muscles in my rib cage the other day. It hurts to breathe, and there are only a few positions where I'm comfortable. I didn't think sitting at church was a good idea. 

[Calm]

Done that.  Get the pillows out.  Or spend time in a big tub.

Just make sure it is not pleurisy.  I felt generally great except for the whole knife in the ribs when trying to breathe kind of thing.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pleurisy/symptoms-causes/syc-20351863

Edited July 23, 2018 by Calm

[jkwilliams]

4 minutes ago, Calm said:

Done that.  Get the pillows out.  Or spend time in a big tub.

Just make sure it is not pleurisy.  I felt generally great except for the whole knife in the ribs when trying to breathe kind of thing.

https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/pleurisy/symptoms-causes/syc-20351863

I went to the doctor, who said it was just a muscle strain. But thanks for the advice. I've been taking it easy.

[Calm]

Always smart to hit the experts first. (My family prefers to suffer needlessly a few days)

Edited July 23, 2018 by Calm

[poptart]

I know a few people here who would hit me for saying this (If they could).  Sneak in a nintendo switch?  Think they have monster hunter out for it, that game is awesome, multiplayer is just epic.  Might as well farm some gear on their wifi.

 

[jkwilliams]

14 hours ago, Calm said:

Always smart to hit the experts first. (My family prefers to suffer needlessly a few days)

I had an appointment anyway, so I had the doctor check it while I was getting my prescription refills and physical. It was kind of funny when the doctor asked, "When did this happen?" and I said, "About 40 minutes ago." I guess if it had to happen, it was pretty good timing.

[jkwilliams]

So, last week, we went to Idaho for my grandson's blessing. I was asked to stand in the circle, and I did so. Didn't even think about it. It wasn't until afterward that I thought maybe I shouldn't have done that. I have another baby blessing coming up when another daughter has her baby, and I'm planning on being in the blessing circle. I hope that's kosher.

[Calm]

Maybe a bishop here can provide the info, but I believe the Handbook requirement is a member ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood.  As long as you haven't been put on probation or whatever it is called, I would think it was okay.  I haven't heard of anyone having to show current recommends or be full tithe payers.

I assume your kids know your beliefs, as long the ones asking know, I don't see an issue.  They can talk to their bishop about it if they have concerns.

[jkwilliams]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Maybe a bishop here can provide the info, but I believe the Handbook requirement is a member ordained to the Melchizedek Priesthood.  As long as you haven't been put on probation or whatever it is called, I would think it was okay.  I haven't heard of anyone having to show current recommends or be full tithe payers.

I assume your kids know your beliefs, as long the ones asking know, I don't see an issue.  They can talk to their bishop about it if they have concerns.

That's pretty much what I thought. No, I haven't had any church discipline, though I probably deserve it. Yes, my kids know where I stand, but that doesn't seem to be a problem as far as participating in a baby blessing.

[Jeanne]

I sure envy all these grandbabies every one has on this board...!! If I had grandkids...I stand in the middle of a big circle with all of them!!😋  Enjoy!!!

[Stargazer]

On 8/2/2018 at 4:19 PM, jkwilliams said:

So, last week, we went to Idaho for my grandson's blessing. I was asked to stand in the circle, and I did so. Didn't even think about it. It wasn't until afterward that I thought maybe I shouldn't have done that. I have another baby blessing coming up when another daughter has her baby, and I'm planning on being in the blessing circle. I hope that's kosher.

I inherited a copy of the 2010 Handbook 1, and while it doesn't cover the exact circumstance you're talking about, it says that a Melchizedek Priesthood holder who is not temple worthy may nevertheless act as voice in blessing his own children, at the Bishop's discretion (with the proviso that the person not have any unresolved serious sins to deal with).  The implication from the section where this is written, is that a non-Temple Worthy MP holder may stand in the circle of a child blessing.

So, you're good to go, I think.

[jkwilliams]

The last person to bear testimony this morning was an older man who talked about the FairMormon conference and how inspiring and inspired it was. Kind of a fun surprise. 

ETA: I now have a calling. They must be desperate. 😂

Edited August 5, 2018 by jkwilliams

[Waylon]

On 7/18/2018 at 2:07 PM, cinepro said:

In our lesson, when people started talking about where David made the first mistake, some suggested it was when he looked at Bathsheba on the roof and didn't put her out of his mind.  I pointed out that since David could take additional wives, there was no sin in seeing a beautiful woman and wanting to be with her, even if he was married.  The "sin" only started after he inquired and found out she was married (bringing up Joseph Smith's marriages to other married women would have been too much for me).

That's when he should have discontinued the interest.

I pointed out that David was already a wicked scumbag, that his actions towards Abigail and Nabal were abominable (compare to how Nephi treated Laban), that I don't entirely trust Old Testament scripture saying David was in any way favored of the Lord from the time of Nabal forward, and that I hoped Goliath would accept temple work because I would love to see Goliath exalted while David rots in the telestial kingdom.

That raised some eyebrows!  

[Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, Waylon said:

I pointed out that David was already a wicked scumbag, that his actions towards Abigail and Nabal were abominable (compare to how Nephi treated Laban), that I don't entirely trust Old Testament scripture saying David was in any way favored of the Lord from the time of Nabal forward, and that I hoped Goliath would accept temple work because I would love to see Goliath exalted while David rots in the telestial kingdom.

That raised some eyebrows!  

Interesting!

I think David will inherit the Terrestrial, but I appreciate your point of view!

[Stargazer]

58 minutes ago, jkwilliams said:

The last person to bear testimony this morning was an older man who talked about the FairMormon conference and how inspiring and inspired it was. Kind of a fun surprise. 

ETA: I now have a calling. They must be desperate. 😂

So, don't hold us in suspense!  What is it?

[jkwilliams]

Just now, Stargazer said:

So, don't hold us in suspense!  What is it?

Emergency preparedness leader. 

[Stargazer]

Just now, jkwilliams said:

Emergency preparedness leader. 

I like it!  I was once in our stake's emergency communications section.  Which meant I had a ham radio license and we practiced talking on the radio once a week (and had a real emergency weather situation once).  Emergency prep isn't quite that, but it's nevertheless a calling you can accomplish something useful with!