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Just wanted to explain my username


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Unaffiliated on a religion message board may look like I have no religion, but I just wanted to let you know I'm a lifelong LDS member and my username has to do with my political affiliation. I dislike both the Republican and Democrat parties and am unaffiliated when it comes to politics. Just wanted to clear up that some people may think it looks like I'm unaffiliated with religion, when I'm a lifelong LDS.

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37 minutes ago, Unaffiliated said:

Unaffiliated on a religion message board may look like I have no religion, but I just wanted to let you know I'm a lifelong LDS member and my username has to do with my political affiliation. I dislike both the Republican and Democrat parties and am unaffiliated when it comes to politics. Just wanted to clear up that some people may think it looks like I'm unaffiliated with religion, when I'm a lifelong LDS.

Welcome to the board, unaffiliated!  I suspect a great many of us are “unaffiliated” (with either political party) too.

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7 hours ago, Unaffiliated said:

Unaffiliated on a religion message board may look like I have no religion, but I just wanted to let you know I'm a lifelong LDS member and my username has to do with my political affiliation. I dislike both the Republican and Democrat parties and am unaffiliated when it comes to politics. Just wanted to clear up that some people may think it looks like I'm unaffiliated with religion, when I'm a lifelong LDS.

Welcome, Unaffiliated!

Although I have to say it seems peculiar to use such an ambiguous user name, such that one feels it necessary to explain it.  I suppose it might be a user name you use in other places, and would rather not have to create another one in this case.

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15 hours ago, Unaffiliated said:

Unaffiliated on a religion message board may look like I have no religion, but I just wanted to let you know I'm a lifelong LDS member and my username has to do with my political affiliation. I dislike both the Republican and Democrat parties and am unaffiliated when it comes to politics. Just wanted to clear up that some people may think it looks like I'm unaffiliated with religion, when I'm a lifelong LDS.

Welcome to the board. Look forward to your participation.

And keep on looking at those third parties; maybe you'll find one to affiliate with at some point (*cough* Libertarian *cough*). ;) 

 

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54 minutes ago, Amulek said:

Welcome to the board. Look forward to your participation.

And keep on looking at those third parties; maybe you'll find one to affiliate with at some point (*cough* Libertarian *cough*). ;) 

 

Well Libertarian is interesting. If I were to join a specific 3rd party it would be that one, but right now I'm unaffiliated.

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8 hours ago, Okrahomer said:

CFR please

“In February 1974 Apostle Ezra Taft Benson was asked during an interview if a good Mormon could also be a liberal Democrat. Benson pessimistically replied: ‘I think it would be very hard if he was living the gospel and understood it.'”

 

- LaVarr Webb, “Mormon Vote Makes Democrats Shiver,”, Deseret News, June 5, 1983, p. B-8

 

When Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) steps down from the Senate in early 2017, Mormonism will lose its highest-ranking elected official -- and the most high-profile example that yes, there is such a thing as a Mormon Democrat.

Mormons are the most Republican religious group in America, and they are moving to the right. A 2007 Pew study found about 66 percent identify with the party. By 2012, Pew found that figure had risen, and 74 percent of Mormons identified as Republican.

During an address at Brigham Young University in 2007, Reid talked about what it was like being a Democrat in a deeply Republican faith.

Edited by Josh Khinder
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1 minute ago, Josh Khinder said:

“In February 1974 Apostle Ezra Taft Benson was asked during an interview if a good Mormon could also be a liberal Democrat. Benson pessimistically replied: ‘I think it would be very hard if he was living the gospel and understood it.'”

 

 

 

- LaVarr Webb, “Mormon Vote Makes Democrats Shiver,”, Deseret News, June 5, 1983, p. B-8

 

That doesnt leave out being unaffiliated or even a Libertarian. All he said is not Liberal.

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11 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Most LDS prophets have told it's members that the Republican Party is the proper  party 

Oh, baloney.

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2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

“In February 1974 Apostle Ezra Taft Benson was asked during an interview if a good Mormon could also be a liberal Democrat. Benson pessimistically replied: ‘I think it would be very hard if he was living the gospel and understood it.'”

- LaVarr Webb, “Mormon Vote Makes Democrats Shiver,”, Deseret News, June 5, 1983, p. B-8

Believe it or not, one used to be able to be a conservative Democrat. When ETB was alive that was still a possibility -- and in fact there were even members of the Q12 who were Democrats.  There may still be.

An opinion that it would be difficult for a faithful Latter-day Saint to be a liberal Democrat does not constitute a proclamation of Republican being the only proper party.  In fact, ETB himself is on record for the opinion that neither party was particularly desirable.  I read this in one of his books, but cannot remember which one.

For your delectation, this is the word of the Lord regarding the Church's position vis-a-vis politics:

“The Church does not become involved in politics. We don't favor any candidate. We don't permit our buildings to be used for political purposes. We don't favor any party.” -- President Gordon B. Hinckley, Larry King Live, television program, Sept 8. 1998 

There might be some who believe the Republican party platform to contain principles which are closer to those enshrined in the gospel of Jesus Christ.  In fact, I'd guess there are more than just a few who believe this.  I might even be sympathetic to this view.  But as President Hinckley said, the Church doesn't endorse a party.

2 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

When Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) steps down from the Senate in early 2017, Mormonism will lose its highest-ranking elected official -- and the most high-profile example that yes, there is such a thing as a Mormon Democrat.

Mormons are the most Republican religious group in America, and they are moving to the right. A 2007 Pew study found about 66 percent identify with the party. By 2012, Pew found that figure had risen, and 74 percent of Mormons identified as Republican.

During an address at Brigham Young University in 2007, Reid talked about what it was like being a Democrat in a deeply Republican faith.

I expect that as the Democrats continue to move farther and farther to the left, this may increase.  

It doesn't mean that the Republican party is right on all issues.

Should we be discussing this here?  It's the Social Hall, where we're not supposed to get contentious. 

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4 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

“In February 1974 Apostle Ezra Taft Benson was asked during an interview if a good Mormon could also be a liberal Democrat. Benson pessimistically replied: ‘I think it would be very hard if he was living the gospel and understood it.'”

 

- LaVarr Webb, “Mormon Vote Makes Democrats Shiver,”, Deseret News, June 5, 1983, p. B-8

 

When Sen. Harry Reid (D-Nev.) steps down from the Senate in early 2017, Mormonism will lose its highest-ranking elected official -- and the most high-profile example that yes, there is such a thing as a Mormon Democrat.

 

Mormons are the most Republican religious group in America, and they are moving to the right. A 2007 Pew study found about 66 percent identify with the party. By 2012, Pew found that figure had risen, and 74 percent of Mormons identified as Republican.

 

During an address at Brigham Young University in 2007, Reid talked about what it was like being a Democrat in a deeply Republican faith.

 

I really don't think any of  this supports your assertion.  Even if we allowed this reported statement by Apostle Benson in 1974, it actually says nothing at all about the Republican Party. 

There have been 17 LDS Prophets since the Church was organized in 1830.  They have been teaching the general membership of the Church via General Conference sermons, First Presidency statements, and other Church publications for nearly two centuries now.  There is a lot of material out there.  But it was the first LDS Prophet who said: “The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it."  Given this emphasis, it would seem surprising for the Prophets to spend much (if any) of their precious time telling the members of the Church which political party is the “proper one.”

The information about Senator Reid and the Pew data is interesting but irrelevant. Since former Senator Reid is a believer, doesn't his Democratic Party affiliation rather undermine your assertion?  If he felt some sort of Prophetic mandate about Republican Party affiliation, why as a believer would he not  pay heed?  Since the Pew data indicate that the percentages have changed over time, one must conclude that US Mormons are in fact political creatures, and that it is their shared values and perceptions (correct or not) rather than Prophetic mandates that govern their party affiliations.

Edited by Okrahomer
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17 hours ago, Josh Khinder said:

Most LDS prophets have told it's members that the Republican Party is the proper  party

As has been mentioned there have been 17 modern day prophets. So,  in order to substantiate your claim that "most LDS prophets" have told members that the Republican Party is the proper party, you will need to provide quotes from 9 prophets indicating the same.

I think that's going to be a difficult challenge, since you have got to throw out the first several prophets right off the bat. I mean, the Republican Party wasn't even formed in Joseph Smith's lifetime, and the Saint's living in Utah under Brigham Young were pretty much all part of the local People's Party, so Brigham's out too. Same for John Taylor. 

Things don't get better after that because the church actively encouraged people to join different national parties while they were in the process of pursuing statehood.

See, e.g., the following excerpt from Chapter 34 of the manual Church History in the Fullness of Times (emphasis added):

Quote

The quest for Utah statehood was also renewed. Before Congress would allow this to happen, however, it required the Church to relinquish participation in politics. The Church’s party—the People’s Party—would have to be disbanded, and Utah’s citizens would have to align themselves with national political parties. The First Presidency publicly supported all these actions. Accordingly, in June 1891 the People’s Party was formally dissolved and, after some contention, the anti-Mormon Liberal Party disbanded two years later.

Establishing the national Democratic and Republican parties in Utah proved exceedingly difficult. Traditionally the Saints had leaned toward the Democratic Party because the Republicans, who had been in power most of the time since 1861, had promoted and enforced the antipolygamy legislation. Furthermore, the Democratic-appointed officials of 1885–89 had been more lenient with the Saints. Considering the political tendency of Church members and the fact that most nonmembers in Utah were Republican oriented, the First Presidency wanted to avoid the Democrats becoming another Church party.

Meetings were held with stake presidents and bishops where they were instructed to encourage more Latter-day Saints to vote Republican. This would demonstrate to national party leaders that a viable two-party system could exist in Utah. Local leaders, however, were also urged to use good sense and caution in their encouragement. Church members who were known to have strong Democratic convictions were not asked to switch parties, but those whose commitment was not particularly strong were encouraged to change. This method was effective, and by 1892 the Republican Party was strong in Utah politics.

That's taking place during Wilfred Woodruff period, so while you might be able to find a quote from him encouraging people to be Republicans, it was really just an encouragement to prevent the saints from having another church party. Oh, and keep in mind that back in the day, the Democrat party was the conservative party; the ideological shift to a more liberal / progressive platform is a latter thing.

The church has stayed out of political endorsements for some time now, with the same message being read from the pulpit encouraging members to actively participate in politics in the party of their choosing for years. But, as I said, if you can find 9 prophets telling people that the Republican Party is the "proper party" I would be happy to review your evidence. 

 

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On 7/17/2018 at 9:23 PM, Unaffiliated said:

Unaffiliated on a religion message board may look like I have no religion, but I just wanted to let you know I'm a lifelong LDS member and my username has to do with my political affiliation. I dislike both the Republican and Democrat parties and am unaffiliated when it comes to politics. Just wanted to clear up that some people may think it looks like I'm unaffiliated with religion, when I'm a lifelong LDS.

Welcome to the forum. I was wondering about that avatar because you seem LDS. When I moved to Utah and got a new driver's license, they asked me if I would like to register to vote. I told them I wanted to be an independent. When I got my voter card, it read Independent Party.

Since that time I decided to register Republican again so I could vote in the Republican primaries, but right now I am fairly dissatisfied with the Republican Party, but even moreso with the Democratic Party. At heart I remain an independent, but usually end up voting for Republican candidates. Utah has had a few very good Republican officials. 

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11 minutes ago, Unaffiliated said:

What's the difference between Republican and Libertarian?

Oh, wow. 

Libertarians tend to be socially liberal (meaning, they are OK with people doing whatever it is they want, as long as it doesn't trample on others' rights), and fiscally conservative.

Libertarians are for small government.  And they mean it.  Republicans say they want small government, but they only want it to be a bit smaller than the Democrats want it.

Libertarians consider taxation to be theft.  Republicans want less of that kind of theft, but are still pretty cool with it, in general.  In other words, they want less taxation that the Democrats do.

That's kind of it, in a nutshell.

When the media say that people like the Bundy's are "anti-government", they're lying. Or perhaps mistaken, but I'd go with lying.  They aren't "anti-government", they just want the government to stop being in everyone's face, owning everything (much of the land in the western US is owned by the federal government, and in Alaska is it darned close to all of it), and generally speaking mismanaging it to surprising degrees.

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