Blessing the name of God after transgression

[CV75]

8 hours ago, theplains said:

Thank you for the continued conversation. Even though we disagree in some places, I do appreciate it ...

Prior to the Fall, I am not sure what level of wisdom Adam and Eve had.  They had intelligence and knowledge,
which some would equate with wisdom possibly. But we can be sure they were sinless before the Fall.

Adam and Eve knew what to do and what not to do and the difference.

When God tells you not to do something, it is safe to say that going contrary to God is not good (wrong/evil).

Since the trees were pleasant to the sight of them, this means they had joy before the Fall.  Eve also experienced
pleasure 'before' eating from the forbidden tree.  The Book of Mormon says they knew no misery nor joy
before the Fall.

If you still believe Adam and Eve had no joy/pleasure before the Fall, you might want to think about how Adam and
Eve could worship God without joy/pleasure.
 
Yes, but one particular tree was forbidden for them to partake of.

Yes. But I believe Adam and Eve knew how to procreate and they had the ability to procreate. From what
I understand of LDS teachings, Adam and Eve could not have children before the Fall (i.e. they did not
have the ability).

By the way, do you believe the plants and animals could procreate 'before' the Fall?  How did they learn how
to do that?  Or was it a natural instinct ingrained by God into them?

Besides capacity (I suppose you mean future potential), do you believe Adam and Eve had the ability 
(power) to have children before the Fall?  From what I have from LDS teachings, they gained this ability
only with the Fall.

The LDS Church's Proclamation about the Family says, "THE FIRST COMMANDMENT that God gave to 
Adam and Eve pertained to their potential for parenthood as husband and wife.'

Did the commandment to eat from the allowed trees pertain to their then future potential to eat or their
then current ability to eat?

Did the commandment to dress and keep the Garden pertain to their future potential or their then current
ability to perform the task?

Eve did not want to live in obedience to God's command and she fell for Satan's lie that she would not die.  
A temptation to become like God (or become a God) is quite tempting.

God made Adam and Eve with the freedom to choose.  They were able to obey or disobey.  No one
forced them to eat from the forbidden tree.

If God told me that eating from a particular tree would cause my cancer to disappear but he told me not
to eat from that tree, I would not eat from that tree.

Would you?

As Satan led Eve astray, he also uses false apostles to lead people astray.  That was my point.  In both cases, it
is a corruption (a beguiling).

But God did not tell people to sin so they could then receive forgiveness.

Thanks,
Jim

Yes, Eve was sinless before the Fall, and with the knowledge and intelligence they possessed, they sought wisdom. One might expect them to have obtained wisdom through obedience, but even sinless people can be beguiled. An innocent child for example is not guilty of sin when someone more subtle than he beguiles him to do something that an otherwise accountable person would find wrong. He is not corrupted of his own volition. This covers most of your questions to me.

I’m picking up a lot of black-and-white interpretation in your comments, which leads to artificial and false dichotomies. For example, one can have joy and pleasure with less wisdom or with more of it, and having been beguiled or not. The specifics make a big difference in whether his deeds, experiences and responses can be reckoned to him as good or evil.

I am also picking up a lot of interpretation which isn’t supported by the text, which I believe you count as speculation. So I won’t comment much on those. Plus, repeating statements of belief I’ve already countered is not a conversation, especially when no new insight is offered.

Yes, as I explained above, we believe that Adam and Eve lacked the “ability” (I usually prefer to use the word “wherewithal” to cover all aspects of human parenting under the divine plan) to be fruitful and multiply before the Fall. Otherwise the tree of knowledge would have been the least of their worries, for they had already been disobedient to the first command. Note that the Lord did not forbid them not to be fruitful and multiply.

I don’t think the wherewithal of plants and animals to procreate is germane to the children of God for reasons I explained above; we simply are not plants and animals. Likewise, as Adam and Eve, we advance in stages of accountability as life goes on (and earlier in life experience we are less so).

Of course all commandments pertain to future potential to progress (e.g. the schoolmaster and the Master), both in the particular area of obedience and perhaps more importantly, other areas. That is progress, and as we see with the Creation, each advancing day and what is accomplished therein, is called good.

Edited June 24, 2018 by CV75

[theplains]

On 6/23/2018 at 8:01 PM, CV75 said:

Yes, Eve was sinless before the Fall, and with the knowledge and intelligence they possessed, they sought wisdom.

Do you believe seeking wisdom outside the boundary established by God is good or evil?

Jim

[CV75]

43 minutes ago, theplains said:

Do you believe seeking wisdom outside the boundary established by God is good or evil?

Jim

For people without moral agency, neither. You may want to read through my comments on the other thread.