We can each have our own testimonies

[CMZ]

 

Quote

 

One fault to be avoided by the Saints, young and old, is the tendency to live on borrowed light, with their own hidden under a bushel; to permit the savor of their salt of knowledge to be lost; and the light within them to be reflected rather than original.

Such a condition is wrong. Every Saint should not only have the light within himself, through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, but his light should so shine that it may be clearly perceived by others. Then they will not be in the very awkward and perilous position of some who are drawn hither and thither, as the clouds come and go over men from whom they borrow their light. This class of people, so driven, do not depend upon their own knowledge or judgment, or testimony, but are ever dependent upon the opinions of others. They believe this or that, passing from one belief to another, as some one else believes or disbelieves. They are always in a stew, fretting over matters religious, political and social, which men of firm convictions and self-possession count as of little or no import. They walk in borrowed light; in darkness, they are without initiative; and when clouds obscure their source of light, they lose the way. (Joseph F. Smith, Improvement Era, Nov. 1904, p. 61.)

 

We can each have our own testimonies. A testimony does not come by pestering the "TBM's" into producing sufficient overwhelming intellectual evidence of the truthfulness of the Church.

[Robert F. Smith]

3 hours ago, CMZ said:

We can each have our own testimonies. A testimony does not come by pestering the "TBM's" into producing sufficient overwhelming intellectual evidence of the truthfulness of the Church.

Amen.  Brother Brigham often made the same point.  Jesus points out the crucial difference to his disciples:

Matthew 16:15-17 "He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?  And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.  And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven."

So why are the evangelicals so contemptuous of those whose testimonies depend upon the witness of the Holy Spirit?
 

[Marginal Gains]

11 hours ago, CMZ said:

 

We can each have our own testimonies. A testimony does not come by pestering the "TBM's" into producing sufficient overwhelming intellectual evidence of the truthfulness of the Church.

Testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Marginal Gains

[Glenn101]

27 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

Testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

Not for everyone. There was a time when I did not want to believe, that I fervently wished that this life was/is all that there is. I received a course correction.

Glenn

[CMZ]

6 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Testimonies come by regular repetition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

Yes. We already know that this is how some people feel.

[Marginal Gains]

8 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

 

2 hours ago, CMZ said:

Yes. We already know that this is how some people feel.

I wouldn’t refer to Elder Packer as “some people”.

[Marginal Gains]

8 hours ago, Glenn101 said:

Not for everyone. There was a time when I did not want to believe, that I fervently wished that this life was/is all that there is. I received a course correction.

Glenn

In what way do you live your life differently by believing in an afterlife that you wouldn’t do if this life was all there was?

[rongo]

36 minutes ago, Marginal Gains said:

In what way do you live your life differently by believing in an afterlife that you wouldn’t do if this life was all there was?

This is hard for me to say. I haven't ever not believed in an afterlife.

Would you say that you live your life differently now than when you believed in an afterlife?

This probably differs from person to person. Perhaps some wouldn't live any differently, but I suspect that most would do at least some things differently. 

[Marginal Gains]

2 minutes ago, rongo said:

This is hard for me to say. I haven't ever not believed in an afterlife.

Would you say that you live your life differently now than when you believed in an afterlife?

This probably differs from person to person. Perhaps some wouldn't live any differently, but I suspect that most would do at least some things differently. 

The question was for Glenn 101

[rongo]

Just now, Marginal Gains said:

The question was for Glenn 101

I know that. We sometimes answer things that were directed at others. 

Is that a refusal to answer my question to you?

[Glenn101]

1 hour ago, Marginal Gains said:

In what way do you live your life differently by believing in an afterlife that you wouldn’t do if this life was all there was?

I am still alive. If not for that hope I would not be. As far as the way I live my life, there are maybe some things I would do that I do not. I would treat others pretty much the same way in either case because that is just the way I want to be.

Glenn

Edited May 21, 2018 by Glenn101
edited to add a thought.

[The Nehor]

17 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

Wait.....you think I want to believe this?

LOL!

[CMZ]

9 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

 

I wouldn’t refer to Elder Packer as “some people”.

You're funny. What I was referring to was that we already knew that some people felt that "testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it." Meaning, I don't think anyone here is surprised that there are other people who think testimonies only come by repetition of what they want to believe. As members of the Church we are used to people ridiculing us and wrongly supposing that we have never scrutinized our testimonies. We know full well that others think our beliefs are ridiculous. So when someone comes along and says, "Your beliefs are ridiculous! I bet you just repeated to yourself what you 'wanted' to believe until you finally believed it," then we go, "Yeah, it comes with the territory that we'd get reactions like that. Nothing surprising here."

[mfbukowski]

18 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

And this is why you are where you are.

I didn't even know what a Mormon was when I got my testimony.  I read the book and God told me I was home.

No repitition

Obviously someone beat this into your head and you think it was the same for everyone.   I am sorry you have had that experience- it killed something inside you. But you can get it back.  He is still here for you.

[mfbukowski]

9 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

In what way do you live your life differently by believing in an afterlife that you wouldn’t do if this life was all there was?

I know this was not addressed to me but for the record I would not do one thing differently, and I lived as I now live as an atheist as well

I seek the best possible life style to become an ideal human as nearly as I can WITH belief in an afterlife or without it.

I can't imagine how childish one would have to be to live differently because one gets candy after you die one way and have a rotten life here.

Who would do that intentionally as a reasonable choice?

Anyway I am done with you, I just keep forgetting you are so good at being annoying and you baiting me to get angry.  You are a master at baiting I must say.

[The Nehor]

9 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

In what way do you live your life differently by believing in an afterlife that you wouldn’t do if this life was all there was?

I am willing to get up at 5 am on Sunday to get to my morning meetings on time. That is about it.

[Robert F. Smith]

19 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it.

Sounds a bit like Professor Harold Hill's "think method," or maybe an upside down and backward version of Alma 32. Unless of course you are being pointedly sarcastic.  😎

[Marginal Gains]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

And this is why you are where you are.

I didn't even know what a Mormon was when I got my testimony.  I read the book and God told me I was home.

No repitition

Obviously someone beat this into your head and you think it was the same for everyone.   I am sorry you have had that experience- it killed something inside you. But you can get it back.  He is still here for you.

As I said, I was referring to Elder Packers view on how to gain a testimony.

[Marginal Gains]

1 hour ago, Robert F. Smith said:

Sounds a bit like Professor Harold Hill's "think method," or maybe an upside down and backward version of Alma 32. Unless of course you are being pointedly sarcastic.  😎

Nope, I’m simply reiterating what Elder Packer described as the way to find ones testimony.

[Marginal Gains]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

I know this was not addressed to me but for the record I would not do one thing differently, and I lived as I now live as an atheist as well

I seek the best possible life style to become an ideal human as nearly as I can WITH belief in an afterlife or without it.

I can't imagine how childish one would have to be to live differently because one gets candy after you die one way and have a rotten life here.

Who would do that intentionally as a reasonable choice?

Anyway I am done with you, I just keep forgetting you are so good at being annoying and you baiting me to get angry.  You are a master at baiting I must say.

You’re angry?

[Marginal Gains]

3 hours ago, CMZ said:

You're funny. What I was referring to was that we already knew that some people felt that "testimonies come by regular repitition of what you want to believe until you come to believe it." Meaning, I don't think anyone here is surprised that there are other people who think testimonies only come by repetition of what they want to believe. As members of the Church we are used to people ridiculing us and wrongly supposing that we have never scrutinized our testimonies. We know full well that others think our beliefs are ridiculous. So when someone comes along and says, "Your beliefs are ridiculous! I bet you just repeated to yourself what you 'wanted' to believe until you finally believed it," then we go, "Yeah, it comes with the territory that we'd get reactions like that. Nothing surprising here."

Elder Packer suggests your testimony is found by bearing it, before you believe it. Was he wrong?

Edited May 22, 2018 by Marginal Gains

[SouthernMo]

Another thought: can I have my own testimony that differs from the correlated teachings of the church?

Or, is that not a real testimony?  Does testimony only refer to truths that have already been revealed to prophets?

[Robert F. Smith]

8 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Nope, I’m simply reiterating what Elder Packer described as the way to find ones testimony.

You might do better by simply quoting him.  Your version of what he thinks is turgid and obscure at best.

[Robert F. Smith]

Just now, SouthernMo said:

Another thought: can I have my own testimony that differs from the correlated teachings of the church?

Or, is that not a real testimony?  Does testimony only refer to truths that have already been revealed to prophets?

Your personal testimony can be anything you sincerely consider it to be.  It has nothing to do with Correlation, or previous statements of the prophets.  It is unique to you, and hopefully comes via the Holy Spirit.

[CMZ]

8 hours ago, Marginal Gains said:

Elder Packer suggests your testimony is found by bearing it, before you believe it. Was he wrong?

Oh, yes. I know what you are talking about. That is one aspect of it. Of course he also spoke about the witness of the Spirit many times.