'Unprecedented' Native American burial site discovered

[SamuelTheLamanite]

Today the news articles are reporting that an ancient burial site was discovered beneath the Gulf of Mexico. I really had no idea. I was mocked for my Gulf of Mexico Flood theory, but literally 24 hours later a significant discovery was announced and reported. I don't know if it was inspiration, but I am so glad I now have some evidence for my prediction. My theory is that most Book of Mormon cities are hidden somewhere deep in the gulf of Mexico.  

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/02/28/unprecedented-native-american-burial-site-discovered-in-gulf-mexico-off-florida.html

 

Edited March 1, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite

[pogi]

Pretty cool discovery!  Except your timing is off.  This site has been "hidden for 7,000 years beneath the gulf of mexico."  That is pre-Lehi. 

It was not a singular flood that buried it either, but rising sea levels over the years that buried it. 

[SamuelTheLamanite]

6 minutes ago, pogi said:

Pretty cool discovery!  Except your timing is off.  This site has been "hidden for 7,000 years beneath the gulf of mexico."  That is pre-Lehi. 

It was not a singular flood that buried it either, but rising sea levels over the years that buried it. 

Thanks! but there has to be a problem with the dating. The Black Sea rise dates before Noah, but we believe great flood of Noah did happen.

Edited March 1, 2018 by SamuelTheLamanite

[pogi]

7 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Thanks! but there has to be a problem with the dating. The Black Sea rise dates before Noah, but we believe great flood of Noah did happen.

“We” do?

[SamuelTheLamanite]

Just now, pogi said:

“We” do?

Do you? Where do you think Noah's flood happened? 

[pogi]

Just now, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Do you? Where do you think Noah's flood happened? 

If there was a flood, I have no idea where it happened.  My best guess, there was no tiny little ark with 2 of every kind of animal on it...and no, we don’t all descend from Noah.  It is a figurative story if you ask me.

[Robert F. Smith]

32 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Thanks! but there has to be a problem with the dating. The Black Sea rise dates before Noah, but we believe great flood of Noah did happen.

So what date do you give to the Noachic Flood, Sam?

[hope_for_things]

Th

13 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Today the news articles are reporting that an ancient burial site was discovered beneath the Gulf of Mexico. I really had no idea. I was mocked for my Gulf of Mexico Flood theory, but literally 24 hours later a significant discovery was announced and reported. I don't know if it was inspiration, but I am so glad I now have some evidence for my prediction. My theory is that most Book of Mormon cities are hidden somewhere deep in the gulf of Mexico.  

http://www.foxnews.com/science/2018/02/28/unprecedented-native-american-burial-site-discovered-in-gulf-mexico-off-florida.html

 

The discovery is cool, its always neat to learn more about ancient civilizations.  

I guess if you're a believer in the historicity of the BoM, it makes some sense to come up with theories about why strong evidence hasn't emerged.  Its because the evidence has been submerged.  

[RevTestament]

18 hours ago, pogi said:

If there was a flood, I have no idea where it happened.  My best guess, there was no tiny little ark with 2 of every kind of animal on it...and no, we don’t all descend from Noah.  It is a figurative story if you ask me.

Two storms like this could produce the conditions necessary for the story:

This storm is in the mouth of the Persian Gulf. If a storm went up the gulf, its counterclockwise rotation could push a storm surge up the gulf, flooding the low plains of Mesopotamia. The extra rain water, and the receding storm surge could wash the ark out to sea, where a second storm out in the Sea of Arabia could blow it around the Sea of Arabia for 3 weeks or so - the remainder of the 40 days. From there it could make trip down to the Indian Ocean and circle around to finding its way back to the mountainous(Ararat) coast of Pakistan. You will note that area corresponds to the survivors traveling from the east in the text. From that point we get the three peoples of the gospel. The Hamites in Egypt & Iran, the Shemites/Semitic peoples, and the people of Japheth - the Hittites, and Greeks. If there had been a world-wide flood, there would have been no live tree leaves to bring back to Noah...

Of course there was a world-wide flood, but it was about 4000 - 6000 years earlier, and although it did flood all the coastal areas, man simply moved to higher ground.

[The Nehor]

19 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Thanks! but there has to be a problem with the dating. The Black Sea rise dates before Noah, but we believe great flood of Noah did happen.

Play fair. If you are going to take only the evidence that supports your theory and toss the rest then just stop with evidence. Just say you believe it and be done with it. This song and dance weakens your case.

[pogi]

19 minutes ago, RevTestament said:

Two storms like this could produce the conditions necessary for the story:

This storm is in the mouth of the Persian Gulf. If a storm went up the gulf, its counterclockwise rotation could push a storm surge up the gulf, flooding the low plains of Mesopotamia. The extra rain water, and the receding storm surge could wash the ark out to sea, where a second storm out in the Sea of Arabia could blow it around the Sea of Arabia for 3 weeks or so - the remainder of the 40 days. From there it could make trip down to the Indian Ocean and circle around to finding its way back to the mountainous(Ararat) coast of Pakistan. You will note that area corresponds to the survivors traveling from the east in the text. From that point we get the three peoples of the gospel. The Hamites in Egypt & Iran, the Shemites/Semitic peoples, and the people of Japheth - the Hittites, and Greeks. If there had been a world-wide flood, there would have been no live tree leaves to bring back to Noah...

Of course there was a world-wide flood, but it was about 4000 - 6000 years earlier, and although it did flood all the coastal areas, man simply moved to higher ground.

...and the animals?

[RevTestament]

1 hour ago, pogi said:

...and the animals?

Noah saved a lot of animals from drowning or being washed out to sea. He left the poor spirits of the plants to drown tho.

Why are there more of some animals than others?

Have you ever noticed that each seal had a structure of salvation? Adam's was the altar. Sacrifice was the beginning of the temple. Then Noah built an ark to save representative types of all spirits.... For Abraham it was Mt. Sinai until Moses built the tabernacle which was a portable temple of the covenant - so that Israel could carry God's words with them. Under David's line it became a permanent locale. Jesus taught that the tabernacle of the body was God's permanent tabernacle of testimony. For LDS this spread into an opportunity to spread this testimony to those in the spirit world - what I call the third estate. I believe Noah's ark is just another representation of this principle.

11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf plucked off

Olive trees were actually endemic to the Levant. This represents God offering good things after punishing man. It is a harbinger of peace.  God will do so similarly after punishing man in these latter days. He will offer them the word of life off the olive branch.

P.S. "Olea paniculata, commonly known as the native olive, is a plant of the genus Olea and a relative of the olive. It grows natively in Pakistan."

Edited March 1, 2018 by RevTestament

[SamuelTheLamanite]

On 3/1/2018 at 9:19 PM, The Nehor said:

Play fair. If you are going to take only the evidence that supports your theory and toss the rest then just stop with evidence. Just say you believe it and be done with it. This song and dance weakens your case.

We don't need scientific evidence to believe. We believe Noah's Flood did happen, but for scientists there was no such flood 5,000 years ago. My Gulf of Mexico flood theory is just theory, I am not calling it official doctrine.

On 3/1/2018 at 2:29 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

So what date do you give to the Noachic Flood, Sam?

Some years before the tower and Babel and the Jaradites

[Robert F. Smith]

3 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

.................................................

Some years before the tower and Babel and the Jaradites

When might that be, Sam?  Do you have a neighborhood figure -- a date within 10,000 years or so?  And when do you estimate the date of the Jaredite Great Tower? (the Jaredites don't mention Babel)  You might want to consult the "Bible Dictionary" at the back of LDS Bibles, under "Chronology," to see what they have.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

4 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

When might that be, Sam?  Do you have a neighborhood figure -- a date within 10,000 years or so?  And when do you estimate the date of the Jaredite Great Tower? (the Jaredites don't mention Babel)  You might want to consult the "Bible Dictionary" at the back of LDS Bibles, under "Chronology," to see what they have.

Noah's flood dates at least 1,000 years after Adam. The D&C teaches

Quote

6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals? A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence

Adam was the first prophet, and God "revealed his will" to Adam, so we can safely say Adam lived 7,000 years ago. Noah's flood dates from 4,000 BC to 2,500 BC.  Here is the Bible Chronology

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bible-chron?lang=eng 

[Robert F. Smith]

4 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Noah's flood dates at least 1,000 years after Adam. .................

Adam was the first prophet, and God "revealed his will" to Adam, so we can safely say Adam lived 7,000 years ago. Noah's flood dates from 4,000 BC to 2,500 BC.

So, if Adam's fall comes in 4000 BC, then when is Noah's Flood?  Doesn't it have to come before the Jaredite Great Tower event?  You said that the Flood should come at least 1000 years after Adam, which would place it around 3000 BC.  Does that sound about right to you?

4 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

  Here is the Bible Chronology

https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bible-chron?lang=eng 

Yes, the LDS "Bible Dictionary" says right there that "For the earliest parts of Old Testament history we rely entirely on the scripture itself; but the Hebrew Bible, the Septuagint or Greek translation, and the Samaritan Pentateuch do not agree together, so that many dates cannot be fixed with certainty."

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

We don't need scientific evidence to believe. We believe Noah's Flood did happen, but for scientists there was no such flood 5,000 years ago. My Gulf of Mexico flood theory is just theory, I am not calling it official doctrine.

Who is this "We" you keep referring to that agree with you on all things? Or are you royalty?

[SamuelTheLamanite]

18 hours ago, Robert F. Smith said:

So, if Adam's fall comes in 4000 BC, then when is Noah's Flood?  Doesn't it have to come before the Jaredite Great Tower event?  You said that the Flood should come at least 1000 years after Adam, which would place it around 3000 BC.  Does that sound about right to you?

Adam's fall comes from 5,000 to 4,000 BC. When you do date Noah's flood? Why isn't my gulf of Mexico flood theory plausible?

Do you have "scientific" evidence for the great flood of Noah?

18 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Who is this "We" you keep referring to that agree with you on all things? Or are you royalty?

We are Mormon. I suppose you believe in Noah's flood

[Calm]

Sam,

Mormons are not monolithic in their interpretation of Noah's flood.  If you want to sound informed, use "I" instead of "we" or at least use "traditional Mormons" or "some Mormons".  If you want to sound uninformed or like a troll, keep using "we".

[SamuelTheLamanite]

16 minutes ago, Calm said:

Sam,

Mormons are not monolithic in their interpretation of Noah's flood.  If you want to sound informed, use "I" instead of "we" or at least use "traditional Mormons" or "some Mormons".  If you want to sound uninformed or like a troll, keep using "we".

Okay Calm thanks for the suggestion, but I suppose most Mormons believe in Noah's Flood. Many Mormon intellectuals say Noah's Flood was local, so I don't understand why Robert and Nehor have a problem with my local Gulf of Mexico Flood theory.

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

. Many Mormon intellectuals say Noah's Flood was local, so I don't understand why Robert and Nehor have a problem with my local Gulf of Mexico Flood theory.

Obviously it is not because it is a "local" theory.  Try to think of other qualities it has that might cause some of us to be dismissive of it.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Obviously it is not because it is a "local" theory.  Try to think of other qualities it has that might cause some of us to be dismissive of it.

I honestly don't know. Please tell me. 

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Sam,

Mormons are not monolithic in their interpretation of Noah's flood.  If you want to sound informed, use "I" instead of "we" or at least use "traditional Mormons" or "some Mormons".  If you want to sound uninformed or like a troll, keep using "we".

We are legion, for we are many, said Sam.

[Robert F. Smith]

1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Adam's fall comes from 5,000 to 4,000 BC. When you do date Noah's flood?

So you have now changed your mind on Adam, and he can fall as early as 5000BC?  So does that mean that you have now moved the Flood back to around 4000BC?  You're the one who said that the Flood comes about 1000 years after the Fall.  So when does that allow the Jaredites and the Great Tower event  to take place?  These are your figures, not mine, Sam.

1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Why isn't my gulf of Mexico flood theory plausible?

Because there is no geological evidence for it in Nephite times.  There are some examples of Mesoamerican cities being sunk, under water, but that was a result of subsidence during an earthquake.  I gave you an example of Jerusalem in the Land of Nephi (in Lake Atitlan), but you appear to have ignored it.

1 hour ago, SamuelTheLamanite said:

Do you have "scientific" evidence for the great flood of Noah?.................................

As I have already stated to you, there is plenty of geological evidence for the effects of the great Pluvial rains which came at the end of the last ice age.  There is also geological evidence of the Black Sea flood (which you cited).  There are also a number of local and regional floods, and such could include tsunamis.

[SamuelTheLamanite]

 

38 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

 These are your figures, not mine, Sam.

Okay, it is fine. Please share your figures.

38 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

As I have already stated to you, there is plenty of geological evidence for the effects of the great Pluvial rains which came at the end of the last ice age.  There is also geological evidence of the Black Sea flood (which you cited).  There are also a number of local and regional floods, and such could include tsunamis.

Okay, please tell me how you came to the conclusion that Noah's flood happened at the end of the last ice age.

40 minutes ago, Robert F. Smith said:

So you have now changed your mind on Adam, and he can fall as early as 5000BC?  So does that mean that you have now moved the Flood back to around 4000BC?  You're the one who said that the Flood comes about 1000 years after the Fall.  So when does that allow the Jaredites and the Great Tower event  to take place?  These are your figures, not mine, Sam.

 5,000 BC is the earliest for Adam's Fall, the Fall happened between 5,000 BC and 4,000 BC.  Noah's Flood dates between 4,000 BC to 2,500 BC.  According to Book of Mormon timeline the Jaradites date after 2,500 BC. 

https://www.lds.org/ensign/1976/09/book-of-mormon-chronology-chart?lang=eng