Smoke pot = lose IQ points

[deli_llama]

Calm,

Going to guess here that by loopiness you mean the psychoactive effects of THC.  Yes there are.  

I have settled on three or four strains that I can obtain that have anywhere from 0.4% to 0.8% THC and 13.7% to 23% CBD.  There are also effective strains I have used, and will use if my fallbacks aren't available, that might have 3-7% THC with 17-22% CBD. I don't particularly care for those strains, not because there are potential psychoactive effects--there really aren't those ratios, but if I am going to spend money I would prefer it getting the most medicine for my dollar. By comparison, those numbers are flipped, or skew to even higher %'s of THC (I have seen 23-32% THC with 0.06% - 0.1% CBD) for common strains.  CBD has a kind of modulating influence on THC and can partially mute some of the psychoactive effects (especially the possible paranoia or anxiety) of THC.  THC as medicine also has it's place, even in my case (rare), it really depends on what you are treating.

It is also a different kind of pain relief then you get from prescriptions or OTC drugs.  From my experience more effective, but I am not using it from pain relief, so I can only relate those few times there has been overlap.  I can say that definitely reduces inflammation and swelling.  I have read some of the CBD/arthritis information in the past, and it seems that both orally and topically is effective.

Interesting side note about THC and one from of dementia.  There is promising research that it might be effective in delaying the formation of Alzheimer plaques and showing effectiveness in treating the symptoms and progress of the Alzheimer disease.  Time will tell.

Edited July 1, 2017 by deli_llama

[deli_llama]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

It leaves out quotes when quoting and only includes 'original material'....probably to avoid those complicated posts that end up having quotes within quotes ten or more deep.

Thank you.  

[JAHS]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Are there versions that leave out the loopiness but still help with pain?  I have heard it might be helpful with arthritis, but my mom is already suffering from dementia so until she is in supervised living (hopefully never), anything that might add to confusion isn't on the list.

Last year the church was opposed to bill SB73 which is concerned with “whole plant” medicine, but was not against bill SB89 which is focused on cannabidiol; a non-psychoactive cannabinoid, which might have less of a loopiness effect.

[strappinglad]

deli , I am happy you have found relief from the use of cannabis . It has some potential in several types of maladies. Personally I think it should be legal, AND WELL REGULATED , but I also am not unaware of human behavior and nature. . A quick google found many articles about the proliferation of " pot shops " , specifically in California but also in Colorado which raise flags of warning. Linked is just one site that discusses the issue. You may note that one doctor claims 250 maladies that could be treated with MJ. A different site offers a medical MJ card for $45 on line with an on line consultation . And you take offense at my suggestion that getting a medical script for MJ can be a joke? Really ?

https://ballotpedia.org/Marijuana_dispensaries_in_California

[hagoth7]

On 6/29/2017 at 9:06 AM, JAHS said:

 

On 6/29/2017 at 9:06 AM, JAHS said:

Findings suggest structural and functional brain changes, and one decades-long longitudinal study showed an average loss of six IQ points among persistent users, similar to damage from exposure to lead."

 

Lost enough brain cells years ago in a bizare encounter with gov't.  Already running on 1-hamster power. Have no interest in losing more.

 

What's some people's take on the studies done on fluoride, that have proven significant IQ drop (average of 7 points) from fluoridated water? 

"Fluoride seems to fit in with lead, mercury, and other poisons that cause chemical brain drain,”

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/features/fluoride-childrens-health-grandjean-choi/

Edited July 1, 2017 by hagoth7

[Tacenda]

2 hours ago, deli_llama said:

Calm,

Going to guess here that by loopiness you mean the psychoactive effects of THC.  Yes there are.  

I have settled on three or four strains that I can obtain that have anywhere from 0.4% to 0.8% THC and 13.7% to 23% CBD.  There are also effective strains I have used, and will use if my fallbacks aren't available, that might have 3-7% THC with 17-22% CBD. I don't particularly care for those strains, not because there are potential psychoactive effects--there really aren't those ratios, but if I am going to spend money I would prefer it getting the most medicine for my dollar. By comparison, those numbers are flipped, or skew to even higher %'s of THC (I have seen 23-32% THC with 0.06% - 0.1% CBD) for common strains.  CBD has a kind of modulating influence on THC and can partially mute some of the psychoactive effects (especially the possible paranoia or anxiety) of THC.  THC as medicine also has it's place, even in my case (rare), it really depends on what you are treating.

It is also a different kind of pain relief then you get from prescriptions or OTC drugs.  From my experience more effective, but I am not using it from pain relief, so I can only relate those few times there has been overlap.  I can say that definitely reduces inflammation and swelling.  I have read some of the CBD/arthritis information in the past, and it seems that both orally and topically is effective.

Interesting side note about THC and one from of dementia.  There is promising research that it might be effective in delaying the formation of Alzheimer plaques and showing effectiveness in treating the symptoms and progress of the Alzheimer disease.  Time will tell.

Well well...time for me to get on it. Oh, wait, I live in Utah.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, deli_llama said:

Calm,

Going to guess here that by loopiness you mean the psychoactive effects of THC.  Yes there are.  

I have settled on three or four strains that I can obtain that have anywhere from 0.4% to 0.8% THC and 13.7% to 23% CBD.  There are also effective strains I have used, and will use if my fallbacks aren't available, that might have 3-7% THC with 17-22% CBD. I don't particularly care for those strains, not because there are potential psychoactive effects--there really aren't those ratios, but if I am going to spend money I would prefer it getting the most medicine for my dollar. By comparison, those numbers are flipped, or skew to even higher %'s of THC (I have seen 23-32% THC with 0.06% - 0.1% CBD) for common strains.  CBD has a kind of modulating influence on THC and can partially mute some of the psychoactive effects (especially the possible paranoia or anxiety) of THC.  THC as medicine also has it's place, even in my case (rare), it really depends on what you are treating.

It is also a different kind of pain relief then you get from prescriptions or OTC drugs.  From my experience more effective, but I am not using it from pain relief, so I can only relate those few times there has been overlap.  I can say that definitely reduces inflammation and swelling.  I have read some of the CBD/arthritis information in the past, and it seems that both orally and topically is effective.

Interesting side note about THC and one from of dementia.  There is promising research that it might be effective in delaying the formation of Alzheimer plaques and showing effectiveness in treating the symptoms and progress of the Alzheimer disease.  Time will tell.

Thanks for the info.  I have a sister in CO and am tempted to tell Mom she should visit her just to see, but the practicality of her moving back to CO now Dad is gone is quite low.  Instead I am hoping it will come here sooner rather than later.

[mnn727]

11 hours ago, strappinglad said:

And you take offense at my suggestion that getting a medical script for MJ can be a joke? Really ?

 

and you can find the exact same things for prescription pain pills.

[strappinglad]

7 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

and you can find the exact same things for prescription pain pills.

2 wrongs don't make it right. High demand from the public and less than ethical practices  from some doctors ,has made a tough situation worse. Pain management is a neglected skill/art. Doctors where I live are so paranoid about the use of pain meds that they refuse to give them to 90 year old terminal patients for fear of creating an addict.

[Robert F. Smith]

54 minutes ago, strappinglad said:

2 wrongs don't make it right. High demand from the public and less than ethical practices  from some doctors ,has made a tough situation worse. Pain management is a neglected skill/art. Doctors where I live are so paranoid about the use of pain meds that they refuse to give them to 90 year old terminal patients for fear of creating an addict.

The bottom line is that doctors need real options, instead of having to prescribe dangerous opioids:

Quote

When patients have a choice between opioids and medical marijuana for a painful condition, an overwhelming majority say they prefer marijuana, that it works just as well, and has fewer side effects, a new survey finds.

Though the survey, involving 2,897 medical cannabis patients, didn’t track actual drug use or efficacy, the findings fit with previous data. Decades of research suggest marijuana is effective for pain treatment. And recent studies have found that in states with medical marijuana availability, there are fewer opioid overdose deaths and doctors fill fewer opioid prescriptions.

The authors of the new survey, led by Amanda Reiman of the University of California, Berkeley, say the data furthers the need to examine marijuana as a “viable substitute for pain treatment,” particularly in light of the devastating opioid epidemic now gripping the country. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports that opioids killed more than 33,000 Americans in 2015, and it estimates that 91 people in the US die each day from the highly addictive drugs.

Though people using marijuana can develop use disorders, it is virtually impossible to die of an overdose—no marijuana overdose deaths have ever been reported to the Drug Enforcement Administration.  https://arstechnica.com/science/2017/06/survey-pain-patients-overwhelmingly-prefer-medical-marijuana-over-opioids/ .

 

[mnn727]

19 hours ago, Tacenda said:

My husband was in severe pain also at one time, and wanted to just end it, like take his life. If it would have been available, like the gummies/ chewable cannabis, he would done it, I've no doubt. It's the most natural.

Yes, I had those thoughts at times also and I had the means (pills, car exhaust, handgun) but that would have left DW alone and also without the resources she would have needed (ie life insurance doesn't pay for suicides). Plus I still had hope in medical science.

Edited July 1, 2017 by mnn727

[thesometimesaint]

I've been there too. Only all my financials were in order. Everything was/is in both our names, and my wife would still have the same income due to my retirement. Unfortunately medical science isn't there for me.

[deli_llama]

16 hours ago, strappinglad said:

And you take offense at my suggestion that getting a medical script for MJ can be a joke? Really ?

Not so, there was no offense taken from my end.  I have simply started sharing my point of view that overall the system is working, and there are serious health professionals and patients working within that system to improve quality of life, symptom relief, and in some cases, preventing death. You might not have much experience in being on the receiving end of comments similar to your jokey comment about the jokey system, but I have, and experience has informed how I approach such. That is I am more than willing to correct the record in the moment and point out that (1) I agree there is abuse (as others have already pointed out, this is true not just with medical cannabis so no point in rehashing that with you), and (2) off hand comments like yours appear to dismiss, and are not always consistent with, real lived experiences of those suffering and seeking help. 

strappinglad, this isn't next bit isn't specifically aimed at you, or anyone on this board. It is a bit boggling to me that of all of the different peoples I end up having conversations with concerning medical cannabis, and I truly have serveral random conversations a week about it with strangers (there is something about having a seizure alert dog that prompts total strangers to dig into your personal medical history while standing in the check-out line), it has only been brothers and sisters in the church that talk about it negatively with me. That is really weird to me, and one day I would like to understand why. Total strangers will show curiosity enthusiasm, support, and yet some of those I have a bond-through-Christ-and-covenant with look for the worse in the system. Only once have I had a stranger make comments to me about what a joke the system is, but I have had fellow saints do so; enough so that there is a noticeable pattern. I don't get that. It is partly why I was curious if there have ever been face to face conversations with medical cannabis patients and the general leadership. Perhaps seeing the humanity of the situation might be more helpful than offhanded or political rhetoric?

[deli_llama]

15 hours ago, Calm said:

Thanks for the info.  I have a sister in CO and am tempted to tell Mom she should visit her just to see, but the practicality of her moving back to CO now Dad is gone is quite low.  Instead I am hoping it will come here sooner rather than later.

That is unfortunate, and I am sorry to hear this. My brother is in a similar situation with his son who spends too much time at Children's Hospital in Denver. The doctors and his parents would love to treat some of the serious complications (mainly the seizures and pain) associated with his Tuberous sclerosis with medical cannabis, but they can't because of which state they actually live in. 

I will keep your situation in my heart and prayers as well, if you don't mind. 

(Oh yeah, I didn't even think about this earlier. We also used CBDs to treat my previous SA dog's pain. When she played she would love to run and throw herself onto her back and slide. She ended up with the equivalent of a repetitive sports injury and a touch of arthritis, and in her last years she started limping on the shoulder that took the abuse. When the vet said that the pain killers she would need to be on could potentially cause liver failure without notice we decided to treat her with the same medicine I was using instead. Her improvement was immediate, and it was very effective.)

[Calm]

"if you don't mind"

Not at all.  You are extremely kind.

[Tacenda]

On 6/30/2017 at 8:51 PM, deli_llama said:

Calm,

Going to guess here that by loopiness you mean the psychoactive effects of THC.  Yes there are.  

I have settled on three or four strains that I can obtain that have anywhere from 0.4% to 0.8% THC and 13.7% to 23% CBD.  There are also effective strains I have used, and will use if my fallbacks aren't available, that might have 3-7% THC with 17-22% CBD. I don't particularly care for those strains, not because there are potential psychoactive effects--there really aren't those ratios, but if I am going to spend money I would prefer it getting the most medicine for my dollar. By comparison, those numbers are flipped, or skew to even higher %'s of THC (I have seen 23-32% THC with 0.06% - 0.1% CBD) for common strains.  CBD has a kind of modulating influence on THC and can partially mute some of the psychoactive effects (especially the possible paranoia or anxiety) of THC.  THC as medicine also has it's place, even in my case (rare), it really depends on what you are treating.

It is also a different kind of pain relief then you get from prescriptions or OTC drugs.  From my experience more effective, but I am not using it from pain relief, so I can only relate those few times there has been overlap.  I can say that definitely reduces inflammation and swelling.  I have read some of the CBD/arthritis information in the past, and it seems that both orally and topically is effective.

Interesting side note about THC and one from of dementia.  There is promising research that it might be effective in delaying the formation of Alzheimer plaques and showing effectiveness in treating the symptoms and progress of the Alzheimer disease.  Time will tell.

Bold Mine

I'm going to be getting tested for Alzheimer's soon, and if I do have it, I will figure out a way to get ahold of some pot, brownie version. I never thought I'd be saying this. But if I go to jail, I go to jail. 

I wish Utah would just get with the times already, and the church. Seems they are always many years behind with certain things.

[Calm]

Do you have friends in Denver or someplace else you can stay with in order to see if it is effective?

I just had a horrible dream Mom went out driving...got back then hours later in one piece.  I need to get her a state ID that removes the option of driving so no more nightmares.  She knows she shouldn't but I can see in an emergency her thinking that little card means she 's capable.

If my sister didn't work for the government, I might ask her to bring out some stuff for Mom and my daughter to try with full knowledge of their doctors, of course.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Calm

[Tacenda]

11 hours ago, Calm said:

Do you have friends in Denver or someplace else you can stay with in order to see if it is effective?

I just had a horrible dream Mom went out driving...got back then hours later in one piece.  I need to get her a state ID that removes the option of driving so no more nightmares.  She knows she shouldn't but I can see in an emergency her thinking that little card means she 's capable.

If my sister didn't work for the government, I might ask her to bring out some stuff for Mom and my daughter to try with full knowledge of their doctors, of course.

Oh that is scary. When my mom started showing signs and still working, she was involved in an accident where she turned left into an oncoming car. Luckily she survived!

I wish so much that Utah would allow it for medicinal purposes. My very TBM friend made me laugh the other day because she said if she could she'd try a marijuana brownie, I guess I was just so shocked she said this. She has painful burning in her feet stemming from neuropathy I'm guessing, and is arthritic ridden and now has ringing in her ears. I don't know how she is surviving. I wonder if the meds she is taking is causing some symptoms. 

You know the brother I've tried to help? Well he is currently sober for now, thank goodness, but the cravings are getting to be so much. I know there is some medicine out that is suppose to help alcoholics with their cravings. I spoke to him last night about it but he said if he could just have pot it would stave off the cravings. But he works as a glazier and the company drug test. How I wish that if allowed medicinally this miracle herb would be allowed use. My brother has tried antidepressants and they don't work and he hates pills. 

From what I've read about cannibis clearing out plaque in the brain, it makes me want to jump right on it. I wonder if I should look into Nevada's dispensaries, of course I've heard they've run out. Maybe we all just need to take our lives in our own hands, including you and your daughter and mother. What are they going to do? Lock us up!?! I told my husband the other day, that's fine if I have alzheimer's, saves my husband some money, lol. (really not laughing though)

Take care Calm...

[thesometimesaint]

For those still on the Pot causes lower IQ myth. That doesn't mean it is good for you, but it is not as bad as some claim.

SEEhttp://www.alternet.org/drugs/blowing-big-marijuana-iq-myth-science-points-zero-effect-your-smarts

[Calm]

"She has painful burning in her feet stemming from neuropathy I'm guessing"

Yeah, that can be agony.  Tell her to get Vitamin Bs checked just in case she hasn't yet, also if she wants to try a very expensive multi Vitamin which helps make mine ignorable, I can PM it.  There is no way I would normally recommend a MLM product as I find the system abhorrent, but I try stuff just to make my friends happy for a month and then dump it...and it turned out this was one product that worked for me and I can't figure out what in the world in it does it, so I shell out $60 a month for it.

I have had noises in my ears since a teen, probably from hitting the dashboard in an accident with my grandmother (took ten more years for them to take her car away even when I was telling my parents she was driving down the wrong side of a street...empty, which was probably what confused her, she was in several other accidents, but the other guy apparently never got hurt and they never pulled her license, finally my uncle just permanently 'borrowed' her car...later she would tell people my aunt stole it, sigh).  Anyway, it was always just in the background except when taking T ylenol or antihistamines until I started on S ynthroid***, now it is a full ringing and loud enough at times I have to put some show on with talking for enough distraction to fall asleep.  I think it has plateaued though.

So yeah, meds can really affect tinnitus.  Massaging acupressure points on the skull above the ears and top of the head can help at times, you can find that info online if your friend is interested.  Just google "acupressure" and "tinnitus".

(the board censor doesn't allow medications brand  names, probably to eliminate spam...but spacing works)

Edited August 6, 2017 by Calm

[Calm]

"Maybe we all just need to take our lives in our own hands, including you and your daughter and mother. What are they going to do? Lock us up!"

The problem is if you get caught other needed drugs can get pulled by doctors who start treating you as an addict, even if they aren't controlled.  I have already been treated as one by one doctor (she kicked me out of her practice) just because I told her I had restless legs and gave her information on treatments including narcotics.

I wonder if insurance companies could pull coverage based on behaviour they could claim is addiction caused (and arguablydoing anything illegally could be labeled that way).

Plus there is always the potential interaction.  I believe if you take any medication including supplements, the doctor and pharmacist need to know to avoid potentially harmful situations.

Taking calcium and magnesium, for example, can interfere with s ynthroid, so you need to know not to take either within four hours of each other.

Edited August 6, 2017 by Calm

[Tacenda]

4 hours ago, Calm said:

"Maybe we all just need to take our lives in our own hands, including you and your daughter and mother. What are they going to do? Lock us up!"

The problem is if you get caught other needed drugs can get pulled by doctors who start treating you as an addict, even if they aren't controlled.  I have already been treated as one by one doctor (she kicked me out of her practice) just because I told her I had restless legs and gave her information on treatments including narcotics.

I wonder if insurance companies could pull coverage based on behaviour they could claim is addiction caused (and arguablydoing anything illegally could be labeled that way).

Plus there is always the potential interaction.  I believe if you take any medication including supplements, the doctor and pharmacist need to know to avoid potentially harmful situations.

Taking calcium and magnesium, for example, can interfere with s ynthroid, so you need to know not to take either within four hours of each other.

I wouldn't do anything illegal I don't believe, it's just not in me, not to sound holier than thou but I wouldn't want to buy anything off the streets, because I'd be hurting someone else. 

I will just hope for something medical to come along before too long, because I don't want to be high, just helped. In one of my classes in school I learned that they lumped marijuana in with heroin and other drugs, so until they change the classification, things won't change. 

About my friend's ringing ears, I sent her this link a few days ago, she said she's going to try it. https://www.facebook.com/georgehtakei/videos/1222243887899002/

I have another friend with extreme restless leg syndrom that is on meds. One medication made her gain tons of weight and she is such a great lady, very active in her various wards for years in highly involved callings, she's unstoppable. 

The friend with ear ringing also is losing her hair, maybe stemming from hypothryroidism. I'm starting to lose some hair also, and I take meds for hypo also. I've heard about calcium interferring so I discontinued my calcium supplements, but didn't know about magnesium.  I'll take a look at that. 

Wow, I guess we can commiserate with one another now. Besides this, my brother has been getting a job but losing them because he goes back to the bars, and now he's asking for money, he'll most likely lose the latest awesome job he just got. Don't worry, I'm not going to give him a dime, he hawked his tools for the 100th time. 

 

 

 

[Calm]

"One medication made her gain tons of weight and she is such a great lady"

Bet it was mirapex, 50 lbs in three months from compulsive eating, I would be crying from the pain and still felt like I was starving...absolutely bizarre.  It is known for other compulsive behaviour as well.

[Calm]

This page has some info on it and other suggestions if that doesn't help (if it is free and harmless, why not try it, I say, as long as it doesn't cause one to put off looking elsewhere for medically sound treatment):

https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/pg953n/that-viral-reddit-video-isnt-going-to-cure-your-tinnitus

[deli_llama]

On 8/6/2017 at 8:44 PM, Tacenda said:

I have another friend with extreme restless leg syndrom that is on meds. One medication made her gain tons of weight and she is such a great lady, very active in her various wards for years in highly involved callings, she's unstoppable. 

 

On 8/6/2017 at 9:01 PM, Calm said:

Bet it was mirapex, 50 lbs in three months from compulsive eating, I would be crying from the pain and still felt like I was starving...absolutely bizarre.  It is known for other compulsive behaviour as well.

 

What is it about prescriptions and weight gain?

 

More than one of the prescriptions I was on caused a massive amount of weight gain, for a bit I was spitting distance to 300 (and I was active, biked everywhere and swam or boarded at the beach almost daily), luckily for my bones, sinews and heart that all fell off quickly when I changed, and now I am just a bit under 200. Too quickly actually, it was alarming to the family and friends and when the fact I had changed to cannabis as my treatment leaked out, there was a concern that I was on other drugs. It seemed impossible that I wouldn't have gained weight to them, something about munchies (which I haven't yet experienced). I suspect we know very little about the diverse unknown or known effects of most of the meds we take. Some of them seem more harmful than weight gain too me.  Vital things for our soul and eternal progress, like empathy (acetaminophen lowers empathy), can be affected. 

 

Side note about restless legs, it can ease that as well. I used to have an occasional bouts, nothing I told the doctor about, I didn't even know it was a thing until I saw an ad once. I just figured I was overly tired or something when I was trying to fall asleep, or a side effect of something I was taking. I later noticed it was gone and went looking to see if it was the change my medicine. I found there haven't been any studies, but clinical experience has shown that cannabis administered through inhalation (smoked or vaporized) is effective at easing the syndrome, but oral administration isn't. That doesn't surprise me actually, though I find edibles unpleasant and hard to time and dose, so I might have some bias.

It will be interesting to see what it is effective and not effective in treating once more studies can start occurring. I am a firm believer in placebos, so the infinitely long magical list of what it treats might actually be a bit shorter.

I would like to say it can help with symptoms of familial reunionitis, but my wife found that joke in poor taste and refused to let me conduct a personal field study. 

 

Edited August 9, 2017 by deli_llama
Won't let me post the whole thing, trying piecemeal.