JAHS Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 7 Hymns We’d Love in the Next LDS Hymnbook Come thou Fount of every blessing Consider the Lilies Will the circle be unbroken Amazing Grace All things bright and beautiful O come O come Emmanuel Down to the river to pray Do you agree or have other suggestions? 1 Link to comment
ksfisher Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 18 minutes ago, JAHS said: 7 Hymns We’d Love in the Next LDS Hymnbook Come thou Fount of every blessing Consider the Lilies Will the circle be unbroken Amazing Grace All things bright and beautiful O come O come Emmanuel Down to the river to pray Do you agree or have other suggestions? I know that Amazing Grace was not put in the current hymn book because the music committee felt it taught the protestant doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Will the Circle Be Unbroken and Down to the River to Pray just don't sound like sacrament meeting songs to me. O Come O Come Emmanuel is beautiful song, but I think you need a real choir to do it justice. Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, JAHS said: Come thou Fount of every blessing How did I not notice this was absent?...absolutely should be there. I'd like some modern songs that are respectful enough to be hymns to be included. For example: Oh Lord, My Redeemer and I Heard Him Come by Jeff Goodrich. Link to comment
Robert F. Smith Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 The Tabernacle Choir is allowed wide latitude in choosing songs outside the LDS Hymnbook, so it might be helpful to go over their past selections -- most of which have been recorded and/or available on YouTube. There are many beautiful songs from outside the LDS tradition, but which are appropriate to our beliefs. I have seen, for example, old Nazarene song books which contain many hymns based directly on the book of Psalms. Plus, there are numerous examples of modern Christian songs which could easily be used in our congregational worship as well, some of the best ones composed by Bill & Gloria Gaither and recorded by them and their associates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5m--ptwd_iI (He Touched Me, 1963) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zja-Nx9Kb80 (Jesus I Come, 1887) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JByePXtnHU (Through it All, Andrae Crouch) Congregational worship through song was an essential part of ancient Judaism and of early Christianity, and God demands it as a form of prayer. It is not optional. I have found that our hymns can bring me to tears, and I have felt the power of hymns sung in Hebrew in Jewish synagogues. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YONAP39jVE (Avinu, Malkenu "Our Father, Our King" Barbara Steisand) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2-mz5E84mK0 (Sh'ma Israel "Hear, O Israel") https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKoGgBUIpi4 (Ha'aderet veHa'emuna "The Glory and the Faith") and, just for fun, a Jewish wedding: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYuYojyDwN4 Link to comment
JAHS Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 1 hour ago, JLHPROF said: 2 hours ago, JAHS said: Come thou Fount of every blessing How did I not notice this was absent?...absolutely should be there. I know. It used to be there. Wonder why they took it out? Link to comment
JAHS Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 2 hours ago, ksfisher said: Will the Circle Be Unbroken and Down to the River to Pray just don't sound like sacrament meeting songs to me. Perhaps if we still had the old Sunday School meetings with an opening exercise like we used to we could sing them there. Link to comment
ksfisher Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 19 minutes ago, JAHS said: I know. It used to be there. Wonder why they took it out? "Before the current hymnal was published, "Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing" was a little-known hymn. The 1985 hymnbook committee elected to remove it from the new hymnal in favor of other works because so few members knew the song. However, after the revised hymnal was published, Mack Wilberg wrote an iconic arrangement of the hymn, bringing it into the forefront of members' minds. Today, due to its renewed popularity, many members still question why the hymn was ever removed as it is now one of the most beloved LDS songs not in the official Church hymnal." http://www.ldsliving.com/10-Things-You-Didn-t-Know-about-Your-Favorite-LDS-Hymns/s/76560 1 Link to comment
bluebell Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 I vote for Come Thou Font. I heard they took it out because no one was singing it so they didn't think anyone would care. 1 Link to comment
Tacenda Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) I still think it has to do with the grace factor and I'm sticking to it. 3 hours ago, ksfisher said: I know that Amazing Grace was not put in the current hymn book because the music committee felt it taught the protestant doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Will the Circle Be Unbroken and Down to the River to Pray just don't sound like sacrament meeting songs to me. O Come O Come Emmanuel is beautiful song, but I think you need a real choir to do it justice. I think you're right about the Amazing Grace not being in there because of the "grace alone" doctrine. And add in Come Thou Fount also as being taken out because of the grace factor, IMO. Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing Instrumental Music, Submitted Music Come thou fount of every blessing Tune my heart to sing thy grace Streams of mercy never ceasing Call for songs of loudest praise Teach me some melodious sonnet Sung by flaming tongues above I'll praise the mount I'm fixed upon it Mount of thy redeeming love Here I raise my Ebenezer Hither by thy help I come And I hope by thy good pleasure Safely to arrive at home Jesus sought me when a stranger Wondering from the fold of God He, to rescue me from danger Interposed His precious blood O to grace how great a debtor daily I'm constrained to be! Let thy goodness like a fetter, bind my wandering heart to thee Prone to wander Lord I feel it, prone to leave the God I love Here's my heart, O take and seal it, seal it for thy courts above Music: John Wyeth Arranged By: Jenna Mosley How wonderful if we could sing these two songs in Sac Mtg.! Edited May 16, 2017 by Tacenda 2 Link to comment
bluebell Posted May 16, 2017 Share Posted May 16, 2017 (edited) We were allowed to sing Come Thou Font in the MTC and they were super (like, incredibly!) strict about what songs were allowed. Pretty much only hymns that were or at one time had been in the LDS hymnal. It was their way of making sure nothing undoctrinal was ever sung. That's why I don't think the teachings on grace were the reason that CTF was removed. Edited May 16, 2017 by bluebell 1 Link to comment
JAHS Posted May 16, 2017 Author Share Posted May 16, 2017 51 minutes ago, Tacenda said: I still think it has to do with the grace factor and I'm sticking to it. I think you're right about the Amazing Grace not being in there because of the "grace alone" doctrine. And add in Come Thou Fount also as being taken out because of the grace factor, IMO. Come Thou Fount of Every Blessing Instrumental Music, Submitted Music Come thou fount of every blessing Tune my heart to sing thy grace Streams of mercy never ceasing Call for songs of loudest praise Teach me some melodious sonnet Sung by flaming tongues above I'll praise the mount I'm fixed upon it Mount of thy redeeming love Here I raise my Ebenezer Hither by thy help I come And I hope by thy good pleasure Safely to arrive at home Jesus sought me when a stranger Wondering from the fold of God He, to rescue me from danger Interposed His precious blood O to grace how great a debtor daily I'm constrained to be! Let thy goodness like a fetter, bind my wandering heart to thee Prone to wander Lord I feel it, prone to leave the God I love Here's my heart, O take and seal it, seal it for thy courts above Music: John Wyeth Arranged By: Jenna Mosley How wonderful if we could sing these two songs in Sac Mtg.! My favorite version of Amazing Grace: 1 Link to comment
mnn727 Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 There are a number of hymns I'd like removed from the hymnal. 1 Link to comment
bluebell Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 8 minutes ago, mnn727 said: There are a number of hymns I'd like removed from the hymnal. I vote for In Our Lovely Deseret. 1 Link to comment
Guest Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 5 hours ago, ksfisher said: I know that Amazing Grace was not put in the current hymn book because the music committee felt it taught the protestant doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Will the Circle Be Unbroken and Down to the River to Pray just don't sound like sacrament meeting songs to me. O Come O Come Emmanuel is beautiful song, but I think you need a real choir to do it justice. Amazing Grace, is how we are all saved...Elder Bruce R McConkie's final address just days before his death at Oct 1985, General Conference were, "...Salvation comes in and thru his atoning sacrifice, and in no other way". Also, if any knew the story behind this hymn they would have put it in the hymnal. I would love to see it put in...it is a song of such beauty. I grew up singing it and I miss it. Link to comment
Guest Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 3 hours ago, bluebell said: I vote for Come Thou Font. I heard they took it out because no one was singing it so they didn't think anyone would care. I love that song, love listening to it when feeling blue. 1 Link to comment
ksfisher Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 1 hour ago, Bill "Papa" Lee said: Amazing Grace, is how we are all saved...Elder Bruce R McConkie's final address just days before his death at Oct 1985, General Conference were, "...Salvation comes in and thru his atoning sacrifice, and in no other way". Also, if any knew the story behind this hymn they would have put it in the hymnal. I would love to see it put in...it is a song of such beauty. I grew up singing it and I miss it. Yes, we do believe that we are saved by grace. However, we do not believe in the protestant doctrine that we are saved by grace alone. We believe, as Nephi teaches, that "it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23) The church music committee felt that the song Amazing Grace too closely taught the incorrect protestant doctrine. Link to comment
Okrahomer Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 I really like It is Well with My Soul. The words to this hymn were written by Horatio Spafford. Spafford and his wife Anna had planned to travel in Europe with their 4 daughters, but some last minute business required mother and daughters to sail ahead. A few days into their Atlantic voyage, the ship collided with another ship and was so terribly damaged that it sank in less 15 minutes. Several days later, Horatio received a telegram from his wife: "Saved alone, what shall I do?" Horatio quickly made arrangements to join his grieving wife. He wrote this poem as his ship was passing the location where his daughters had died. The Spaffords eventually had 4 more children and ended up in Jerusalem where they established a kind of religious community known as the American Colony. 1 Link to comment
Guest Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 18 minutes ago, ksfisher said: Yes, we do believe that we are saved by grace. However, we do not believe in the protestant doctrine that we are saved by grace alone. We believe, as Nephi teaches, that "it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do." (2 Nephi 25:23) The church music committee felt that the song Amazing Grace too closely taught the incorrect protestant doctrine. I understand your point. As a former Baptist, and when young began preaching in that pulpit before changing to our (LDS) own pulpits so I know what Protestants believe. Having said that, we ARE saved by Grace alone, we are exalted by our works, that being the "all we can do". Yes most Protestant denominations believe that once you are saved then their is nothing more to be done. But a large percentage still "work". But not every hymn we sing teaches every point and doctrine, they focus of certain aspects of the entire Gospel plan. It is a wonderful song, and it would be a great addition to our many Sacrament hymns. It's beauty, it's music, it's words, and it's message, is a song that will meet the design of all Sacrament songs. To "bring all things our remembrance" and bring the Spirit, so that our hearts and minds are drawn to Jesus Christ and his great sacrifice, that we may be forgiven and have our sins remitted. 1 Link to comment
JLHPROF Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, mnn727 said: There are a number of hymns I'd like removed from the hymnal. Me too, although probably not the same ones. Although it seems like taking out pieces of our history. Edited May 17, 2017 by JLHPROF Link to comment
Traela Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 5 hours ago, ksfisher said: "Before the current hymnal was published, "Come, Thou Fount of Every Blessing" was a little-known hymn. The 1985 hymnbook committee elected to remove it from the new hymnal in favor of other works because so few members knew the song. However, after the revised hymnal was published, Mack Wilberg wrote an iconic arrangement of the hymn, bringing it into the forefront of members' minds. Today, due to its renewed popularity, many members still question why the hymn was ever removed as it is now one of the most beloved LDS songs not in the official Church hymnal." http://www.ldsliving.com/10-Things-You-Didn-t-Know-about-Your-Favorite-LDS-Hymns/s/76560 Now if only the MoTab would just sing it correctly. It should be pretty obvious that the poet intended "ebenezer" to be pronounced "eh beh NEH zer", not the ugly, nasally, non-rhyming "eh beh NEE zer". Link to comment
Buckeye Posted May 17, 2017 Share Posted May 17, 2017 22 hours ago, JAHS said: 7 Hymns We’d Love in the Next LDS Hymnbook Come thou Fount of every blessing Consider the Lilies Will the circle be unbroken Amazing Grace All things bright and beautiful O come O come Emmanuel Down to the river to pray Do you agree or have other suggestions? My family's Sunday afternoons include listening to evangelical worship music (e.g., Shout to the Lord) and negro spirituals (e.g, Lift Every Voice and Sing). Frankly, I'd be in favor of anything with an up-tempo beat. 1 Link to comment
strappinglad Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 In my area half the hymns could be removed and few would notice. We really hit the stalwarts hard. That said, there really is no time available to practice anything new or rarely sung. I think a Practice hymn sung at the beginning of Sunday School for 10 minutes, would be a valuable exercise, even if only done monthly. Would it be possible to add another verse to Amazing Grace which would clarify the LDS view? I know, heresy ! Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 On 5/16/2017 at 7:13 PM, mnn727 said: There are a number of hymns I'd like removed from the hymnal. "God Save the King" Let the British have their own hymnal. Link to comment
The Nehor Posted May 18, 2017 Share Posted May 18, 2017 On 5/16/2017 at 4:35 PM, JAHS said: Perhaps if we still had the old Sunday School meetings with an opening exercise like we used to we could sing them there. Yes, but that meeting was a huge waste of time. It was basically an excuse to sing two extra hymns. 1 Link to comment
JAHS Posted May 18, 2017 Author Share Posted May 18, 2017 9 hours ago, strappinglad said: In my area half the hymns could be removed and few would notice. We really hit the stalwarts hard. That said, there really is no time available to practice anything new or rarely sung. I think a Practice hymn sung at the beginning of Sunday School for 10 minutes, would be a valuable exercise, even if only done monthly. We used to do that practice song time every Sunday during opening exercises before the consolidated meeting schedule started. Link to comment
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