JAHS Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 9 hours ago, thesometimesaint said: You are exempt if you have no income. IE; The stay at home mother who has no outside income. She is not required to pay tithing on what her husband makes. "Exempt" status was applied to such members a while ago, but now they are called full-tithe payers if they declare to the Bishop that they would pay if they had income. Link to comment
Rain Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 On Saturday, March 25, 2017 at 0:18 PM, mnn727 said: This info is about 20 years old, so check with your Bishop or LDS Family Services, but adoption through LDS Family Services cost one tithe (in addition to your regular tithe). You both also need to have a Temple Recommend. What is "one tithe"? One week's worth? Month? Year? Link to comment
rongo Posted March 28, 2017 Share Posted March 28, 2017 25 minutes ago, Rain said: What is "one tithe"? One week's worth? Month? Year? Cheaper for Bill Reel to adopt than for me . . . Link to comment
mnn727 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 On 3/28/2017 at 2:48 PM, Rain said: What is "one tithe"? One week's worth? Month? Year? A year. 1 Link to comment
amo Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 On 3/16/2017 at 0:01 PM, JAHS said: ... - Members entirely dependent upon Church welfare assistance are full-tithe payers." (Identifying and Recording Tithing Status) And how about members entirely dependent upon government welfare or government unemployment insurance ? Link to comment
JAHS Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 2 hours ago, amo said: On 3/16/2017 at 9:01 AM, JAHS said: ... - Members entirely dependent upon Church welfare assistance are full-tithe payers." (Identifying and Recording Tithing Status) And how about members entirely dependent upon government welfare or government unemployment insurance ? Them too, although they may decide to pay tithing on it. That's up to them. Link to comment
thesometimesaint Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 3 hours ago, amo said: And how about members entirely dependent upon government welfare or government unemployment insurance ? We generally don't check to see source of income. As JAHS said it's up to them. Link to comment
bluebell Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 5 hours ago, amo said: And how about members entirely dependent upon government welfare or government unemployment insurance ? We've been on unemployment a couple of times and we always paid tithing on it. Link to comment
amo Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 9 hours ago, JAHS said: Them too, although they may decide to pay tithing on it. That's up to them. Could their bishop ask them to pay it in order to keep/have their temple recommend ? What if he does so, should the stake presidency be notified ? Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 4 minutes ago, amo said: Could their bishop ask them to pay it in order to keep/have their temple recommend ? What if he does so, should the stake presidency be notified ? At tithing settlement the bishop asks the member to declare their tithing status. The available choices are: "Full", "Part", "Non" and "Exempt". I guess if you want the bishop to help you decide what to declare, you can explain the circumstances and ask for his opinion on it. But the onus is still on you to make the declaration. When being interviewed for worthiness (whether for temple recommend or a calling), the question is: "Are you a full tithe payer?" The available choices are: "Yes" or "No". You decide which it is. I suspect that if the person interviewing you happens to know how much you make, and knows how much you pay in tithing, he might question your answer if you say "Yes" and he knows different. But unless he's your employer, and has a good handle on what your salary is, how the heck is he going to know that? And bishops are almost never involved in the week-to-week donation processing, and in these days of online donations not even the finance clerk or bishopric counselor is going to routinely see how much you're donating each week. I've never heard of a case where a bishop has intervened to notify the stake president about someone's tithing declaration. If the bishop thinks there's a problem, then he deals with it at his level. I was a finance or ward clerk a total of about 15 years, and no bishop ever asked me to produce a report on how much anyone donated. Except for the routine report that he used to record tithing status during tithing settlement season. And I got the impression from every bishop I ever clerked for that his interest was not on how much was donated, but on how the member declared him or herself. There may be exceptions to the above. Link to comment
amo Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Stargazer said: At tithing settlement the bishop asks the member to declare their tithing status. The available choices are: "Full", "Part", "Non" and "Exempt". I guess if you want the bishop to help you decide what to declare, you can explain the circumstances and ask for his opinion on it. But the onus is still on you to make the declaration. When being interviewed for worthiness (whether for temple recommend or a calling), the question is: "Are you a full tithe payer?" The available choices are: "Yes" or "No". You decide which it is. I suspect that if the person interviewing you happens to know how much you make, and knows how much you pay in tithing, he might question your answer if you say "Yes" and he knows different. But unless he's your employer, and has a good handle on what your salary is, how the heck is he going to know that? And bishops are almost never involved in the week-to-week donation processing, and in these days of online donations not even the finance clerk or bishopric counselor is going to routinely see how much you're donating each week. I've never heard of a case where a bishop has intervened to notify the stake president about someone's tithing declaration. If the bishop thinks there's a problem, then he deals with it at his level. I was a finance or ward clerk a total of about 15 years, and no bishop ever asked me to produce a report on how much anyone donated. Except for the routine report that he used to record tithing status during tithing settlement season. And I got the impression from every bishop I ever clerked for that his interest was not on how much was donated, but on how the member declared him or herself. There may be exceptions to the above. Well, the thing is that this bishop I know knows of a few members in his ward who are on welfare and is now asking them to pay tithing on that money or else they'll lose their temple recommend. Any thoughts on that ? Link to comment
JAHS Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 4 hours ago, amo said: 13 hours ago, JAHS said: Them too, although they may decide to pay tithing on it. That's up to them. Could their bishop ask them to pay it in order to keep/have their temple recommend ? What if he does so, should the stake presidency be notified ? Like Stargazer said, normally a Bishop will only ask them for their tithing status in a temple recommend interview without asking how much they make or where it comes from. 2 hours ago, amo said: Well, the thing is that this bishop I know knows of a few members in his ward who are on welfare and is now asking them to pay tithing on that money or else they'll lose their temple recommend. Any thoughts on that ? It's hard to judge what is going on between a Bishop and any member without knowing all the details . He may be sincerely trying to help them reap the blessings of being a full tithe payer. But normally a Bishop will not tell a member what they should pay tithing on. I don't think there is any reason to "report" him to the stake president. If a member comes up short because they paid tithing on government assistance the Bishop can make up the difference with ward fast offerings. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 5 hours ago, amo said: Well, the thing is that this bishop I know knows of a few members in his ward who are on welfare and is now asking them to pay tithing on that money or else they'll lose their temple recommend. Any thoughts on that ? There may be problems with that. For example funds received on the supplementary nutrition assistance program (SNAP), also known as "Food Stamps", isn't supposed to be used for anything else. If a welfare recipient diverts funds from the program to something else, then he or she is committing welfare fraud. Other government assistance has similar restrictions. If the Bishop is asking for a welfare recipient to pay tithing on the funds received from the government as welfare, he may be ignorantly making them guilty of fraud. Many welfare recipients do have earnings from their own labor of course, and that is naturally subject to tithing. Link to comment
amo Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 Thanks for your comments, that also was my understanding on how to handle this situation. I have to admit I was very surprised when I was approached on few different occasions and asked, by not only one but three members, while visiting my former youth ward, and told first hand about this situation. I thought it was a new way of doing things coming down from the Brethren. Now, if the person on government assistance decides not to pay tithing on that money, what will her status be? "Exempt"? And based on that, could her temple recommend be held from her or denied? Will what JAHS said apply here ? On 3/27/2017 at 10:56 PM, JAHS said: "Exempt" status was applied to such members a while ago, but now they are called full-tithe payers if they declare to the Bishop that they would pay if they had income. Link to comment
JAHS Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 2 hours ago, amo said: Thanks for your comments, that also was my understanding on how to handle this situation. I have to admit I was very surprised when I was approached on few different occasions and asked, by not only one but three members, while visiting my former youth ward, and told first hand about this situation. I thought it was a new way of doing things coming down from the Brethren. Now, if the person on government assistance decides not to pay tithing on that money, what will her status be? "Exempt"? And based on that, could her temple recommend be held from her or denied? Will what JAHS said apply here ? Like I said earlier the term "exempt" is not used anymore. It's either full, part, or non tithe payer. If the member declares that they are a full tithe payer the Bishop has to accept that and give them the recommend. If they had income from a regular job they would have paid. After that it is between them and God, and whatever is legal, regarding paying tithing on income from the government. The situation you describe should not exist in the first place. Link to comment
bluebell Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Stargazer said: There may be problems with that. For example funds received on the supplementary nutrition assistance program (SNAP), also known as "Food Stamps", isn't supposed to be used for anything else. If a welfare recipient diverts funds from the program to something else, then he or she is committing welfare fraud. Other government assistance has similar restrictions. If the Bishop is asking for a welfare recipient to pay tithing on the funds received from the government as welfare, he may be ignorantly making them guilty of fraud. Many welfare recipients do have earnings from their own labor of course, and that is naturally subject to tithing. I don't think it's even possible to divert SNAP funds. It's not actual money. It's a debit card with a certain amount on it each month that can only be used on designated food items. It can't even be used to buy toothpaste or diapers, for example. Only food. Edited April 2, 2017 by bluebell 1 Link to comment
Stargazer Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 1 hour ago, bluebell said: I don't think it's even possible to divert SNAP funds. It's not actual money. It's a debit card with a certain amount on it each month that can only be used on designated food items. It can't even be used to buy toothpaste or diapers, for example. Only food. You might think so, but people are creative. For one thing, one might loan the card to another in exchange for either money or commodities that are not available using the card. I've seen both of these being done. Link to comment
bluebell Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 10 minutes ago, Stargazer said: You might think so, but people are creative. For one thing, one might loan the card to another in exchange for either money or commodities that are not available using the card. I've seen both of these being done. Yes, but for such a person, paying tithing on such money would be the least of their problems in regards to misusing government funds. Link to comment
JAHS Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 2 hours ago, bluebell said: 2 hours ago, Stargazer said: You might think so, but people are creative. For one thing, one might loan the card to another in exchange for either money or commodities that are not available using the card. I've seen both of these being done. Yes, but for such a person, paying tithing on such money would be the least of their problems in regards to misusing government funds. One might also be earning a little money at a part time job or some other source but still receiving government aid and use their part time earnings to pay tithing on the government aid. That would be their choice to do that but I doubt most Bishops would tell them to do that. 2 Link to comment
amo Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 4/2/2017 at 12:35 AM, JAHS said: ... It's hard to judge what is going on between a Bishop and any member without knowing all the details . He may be sincerely trying to help them reap the blessings of being a full tithe payer. ... The problem I see with this approach is that “blessings” becomes the main reason to obey the law, leaving behind “love”, which according to the Scriptures, should be the real reason. We should obey by love, & not because of the blessings that may –or may not- come. Link to comment
amo Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 On 4/1/2017 at 8:24 PM, Stargazer said: ... And bishops are almost never involved in the week-to-week donation processing, and in these days of online donations not even the finance clerk or bishopric counselor is going to routinely see how much you're donating each week. ... Nowadays & thanks to technology, I know for a fact that my stake president, for instance, has access in his stake, to everybody’s tithing/donations amounts on his cell, so he can tell even before thinking about extending a call how much the person donates. Link to comment
Stargazer Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 On 5/5/2018 at 7:01 AM, amo said: Nowadays & thanks to technology, I know for a fact that my stake president, for instance, has access in his stake, to everybody’s tithing/donations amounts on his cell, so he can tell even before thinking about extending a call how much the person donates. You misunderstand. I did not say they couldn't do so, I said that they would probably not routinely do so. Back when I was a finance clerk, every week I helped process the donations of all members of the ward who handed a donation envelope to a member of the bishopric. I did not process donations made by those who donated online -- but of course I could see them, if I chose to do so, and so could the bishop, if he were knowledgeable about how to do so (which not all of them were) -- or for that matter, he could have asked me to print a report on it. But no bishop with whom I had the pleasure to serve with ever asked to see the donation information -- except during tithing settlement. I am well aware, especially with today's technology, that bishops and stake presidents can get reports on donation status for the members under their stewardship, anytime they choose. Do they routinely do so? I don't know, and unless you have personal knowledge of your stake president's personal practices, you don't either. On the other hand, even before the advent of central accounting in church finance, a stake president could find out the donation status of any member of his stake, just not as immediately as they can now. I don't see what difference it makes between then and now. Back then they could if they consulted with the clerks; now they can on their mobile phones. This is an old topic, so I forget what the big deal was. Is it somehow problematic that one's bishop or stake president know how much we donate to the Church? Or are you just correcting what you thought was my mistake? Link to comment
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