Nepotism in the Church/Henry J. Eyring new president of BYUI

[Kenngo1969]

1 hour ago, cacheman said:

You're welcome.  I agree with what you say except that the two scenarios are 'roughly analogous'.  David Holland's career trajectory is not unusual for a successful academic.  I agree that Jeff Holland would not be likely to influence or persuade a Harvard selection committee.  However, Matthew's unusual career trajectory happened to occur in a location where his family's name and reputation could make an impression on a hiring committee.  'Apples and oranges' in my opinion. 

OK.  Agree to disagree, agreeably.  I assume that both of us are far on the outside, looking in (or perhaps you're privy to information I don't have: if so, I'll certainly defer to you). Maybe this is simply me looking at the world through rose-colored glasses, but personally, I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt that, in most cases, they got where they are on merit (and this is coming from a guy who's spent about the last year and a half reporting to people who are roughly half his age ).  Heck, even if someone doesn't happen to get where he is on merit, my stewing about it certainly isn't going to change anything unless he does something to me which should affect his prospects for continued employment.

The people to whom I've reported in my current position are young buck(ette)s, but in my most recent job previous to this one, I reported to someone who was much closer to me in age ... yet of whom it could be said justifiably, it seemed to me, that she knew about half as much about effective supervision, motivation, and similar topics as the much younger people to whom I have reported in my current position.  Candidly, my current job sometimes bores me to tears. It's certainly not what I got a bachelor's degree and an advanced, terminal degree in another discipline to do.  (In fact, I left another similar, similar-paying job a number of years ago because I decided I didn't want to answer phones for the rest of my life, deciding, instead, to embark on a seemingly-ill-fated advanced education misadventure ... which also (alas! ) hasn't, as yet, paid dividends).  But unless and until my situation changes, and unless and until I find something that's as worthwhile or more worthwhile to do, as long as my current employer's powers-that-be keep signing my paychecks, I'll certainly keep showing up.  Whatever this job might leave to be desired, it certainly beats the socks off of reporting to She Who Could Not Possibly Be Pleased, Yet Still Must Be Obeyed.

[rpn]

You are talking about nepotism.   The important issue in this case is continuity.   He was the academic VP, this is apparently sudden, certainly in the latter part of the school year after a pretty short term president.   However he came to be in that position THIS decision that couldn't have included a full search because of timing issues seems to have been the only real decision people could make.

And yes, one of the drawbacks of recycling the same families is that it means women don't have much change.   I don't picture BYUI being the first church university hiring a woman president, and was sad that not even the business college recently did, but someone should soon, so the conferences they have will include women who can inform the decisions like women do differently often.

[Kenngo1969]

On 2/8/2017 at 9:30 AM, Buckeye said:

I get what you're saying, but I think church leadership would argue that callings are a net blessing. We commit a disservice when we build up callings as net burdens, such as women who say "why would I ever want to be a bishop?"

 

That may be true, but, often, in my opinion, the blessings are only recognized in retrospect (and in some cases, they don't even occur until after one's service has been completed). As with so many things in life, "After much tribulation come the blessings" (Doctrine & Covenants 58:42, emphasis mine).  If someone were to say, "I want the blessings of being an [fill-in-calling-here]" prospectively, I think, in the Church of Jesus Christ, we would have much more aspiring to callings than we do, and I don't think that would be a good thing. 

[Kenngo1969]

34 minutes ago, rpn said:

You are talking about nepotism.   The important issue in this case is continuity.   He was the academic VP, this is apparently sudden, certainly in the latter part of the school year after a pretty short term president.   However he came to be in that position THIS decision that couldn't have included a full search because of timing issues seems to have been the only real decision people could make. [Emphasis added by Kenngo1969] ...

 

That may be true, but it wouldn't prevent BYU-I from naming an interim president prior to conducting a full search rather than naming now-President Eyring to the position permanently.

[ERayR]

On 2/7/2017 at 8:51 PM, sunstoned said:

Church leadership is full of nepotism.  It is a fact of life in the church and in Utah.  Case in point, Matt Holland went for an Associate Professor at BYU, who had just made tenure.  He had never head a management position.  Had never been a Department Chair, or an Assistant Dean, Dean, Academic Vice President.  And yet he went from Associate Professor to President of an University.  This is unheard of.  I sit on promotion and hiring committees at the university where I teach.  It would be a big stretch for a new Associate Professor to be promoted to department chair.   Matt got his position because of his last name and who is father is.  

Is he doing a good job?

Edited February 9, 2017 by ERayR

[Kenngo1969]

ERayR,

Irrelevant, I suppose.  I suppose we're supposed to conclude that, while David Holland got where he is on merit, by contrast, Matthew Holland (same family, similar upbringing, same gene pool) is nothing but a "B-List Academic," a hack, and a wannabe who only got where he is because daddy pulled some strings.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Kenngo1969

[cacheman]

1 hour ago, Kenngo1969 said:

ERayR,

Irrelevant, I suppose.  I suppose we're supposed to conclude that, while David Holland got where he is on merit, by contrast, Matthew Holland (same family, similar upbringing, same gene pool) is nothing but a "B-List Academic," a hack, and a wannabe who only got where he is because daddy pulled some strings.

Hi Kenngo,

I might have missed it, but I don't recall seeing anyone on this thread assert that Jeff Holland 'pulled some strings' to get Matthew Holland hired.  Also, nobody has implied that he's a 'hack' or 'B-list academic'.  However, I imagine that it's likely that his family name factored positively in the hiring process.  None of us here knows how much of an effect that had.  That being said... it is highly unusual for a newly promoted associate professor to be hired as a university president.

We had a professor retire last year.  He had a long successful career, and his name is widely known in our state due to his accomplishments and outreach.  There were a number of applicants to fill his empty seat.  One of the applicants was his son who was an associate professor at a nearby university.  Unsurprisingly, he was offered the position.  I wasn't part of that search committee, but in talking with those who were, it appears that his family name carried some weight in their decision.  One of the rationale brought up was the continued recruitment potential resulting from the respected family name.  His father, to my knowledge, never contacted search committee members or involved himself in any way in the search.  I could imagine something like that happening in the UVU situation.  I don't think either of those situations would qualify as nepotism.

[rockpond]

4 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

ERayR,

Irrelevant, I suppose.  I suppose we're supposed to conclude that, while David Holland got where he is on merit, by contrast, Matthew Holland (same family, similar upbringing, same gene pool) is nothing but a "B-List Academic," a hack, and a wannabe who only got where he is because daddy pulled some strings.

Maybe you were just trying to be funny here but I agree with Cacheman.  Nobody here has made the claims about Matthew Holland that your post seems to imply.

In fact, as I recall, everyone here who has commented on it has seemed to feel that Holland is doing a great job leading UVU.  If anything, the "criticism" (if we're even calling it that) has been leveled at the UVU Board of Trustees for possibly trying to benefit their University by hiring someone with a last name that carries some weight.  And even that is barely a criticism.

Someone please correct me if I have summarized incorrectly.

p.s.  If anyone wants to hire me to be a University President because of my last name - I will take the job.  <crickets>

[Kenngo1969]

58 minutes ago, rockpond said:

... p.s.  If anyone wants to hire me to be a University President because of my last name - I will take the job.  <crickets>

"Pond" is a well-recognized surname in the distinguished, hallowed halls of the upper echelons of the Ivory Tower?    Who knew?  And I don't believe I have made any direct accusations against any other specific participant in this thread.  If I have, please point them out to me, and I will be happy to retract them. I'm more responding to the general tenor of some attitudes on the thread that, in at least two cases, seems to be that one's surname has been the sin qua non which has dictated one's career trajectory in academia.

Yes, I will concede that if one's surname happens to be Holland or Eyring, that fact certainly may well not hurt one's chances when it comes to being considered for certain positions in academia, but, standing alone, I doubt it's sufficient on its own.   The very use of the word nepotism carries with it the exact opposite connotation, and I am not the one who has used that word in this thread.

And, with ERayR, I'm more interested in one's performance once he is selected for such a position.  I think those who seem to be concerned about favoritism toward the Hollands and the Eyrings of the world would have a much better case if it could be shown that disaster resulted (or at least that the results were less than desirable) from such an appointment. 

 

[rongo]

Just now, Kenngo1969 said:

"Pond" is a well-recognized surname in the distinguished, hallowed halls of the upper echelons of the Ivory Tower?    Who knew?  

I think he has a better future as a General Authority. Ever since he started going by "first initial, middle name." 

N. Golden Pond . . .    

[rockpond]

4 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

"Pond" is a well-recognized surname in the distinguished, hallowed halls of the upper echelons of the Ivory Tower?    Who knew?  And I don't believe I have made any direct accusations against any other specific participant in this thread.  If I have, please point them out to me, and I will be happy to retract them. I'm more responding to the general tenor of some attitudes on the thread that, in at least two cases, seems to be that one's surname has been the sin qua non which has dictated one's career trajectory in academia.

Yes, I will concede that if one's surname happens to be Holland or Eyring, that fact certainly may well not hurt one's chances when it comes to being considered for certain positions in academia, but, standing alone, I doubt it's sufficient on its own.   The very use of the word nepotism carries with it the exact opposite connotation, and I am not the one who has used that word in this thread.

And, with ERayR, I'm more interested in one's performance once he is selected for such a position.  I think those who seem to be concerned about favoritism toward the Hollands and the Eyrings of the world would have a much better case if it could be shown that disaster resulted (or at least that the results were less than desirable) from such an appointment. 

 

I didn't sense here that there was that "general tenor of some attitudes".  I also thought that most agreed Holland's UVU appointment cannot fit the definition of nepotism.

I apologize if I have misread.

[Kenngo1969]

On 2/7/2017 at 8:51 PM, sunstoned said:

///  Matt got his position because of his last name and who is father is.  

 

1 hour ago, rockpond said:

Maybe you were just trying to be funny here but I agree with Cacheman.  Nobody here has made the claims about Matthew Holland that your post seems to imply.

In fact, as I recall, everyone here who has commented on it has seemed to feel that Holland is doing a great job leading UVU.  If anything, the "criticism" (if we're even calling it that) has been leveled at the UVU Board of Trustees for possibly trying to benefit their University by hiring someone with a last name that carries some weight.  And even that is barely a criticism.  [Emphasis in original.]

 

You've summarized incorrectly.   You're welcome!  Glad I could be of service.

"Matt got his position because of his last name and who is father is" =/= Criticizing "the UVU Board of Trustees for possibly trying to benefit their University by hiring someone with a last name that carries some weight."

Granted, I think your formulation is the better of the two.  It is more cautious, gives UVU and its powers-that-be much more credit than simply cravenly caving in to an impulse to succumb to the allure of hiring someone simply because of the recognizability of his surname, and so on.  But that's exactly why it is not equivalent to Sunstoned's.  And, by contrast, we've heard from someone who's husband is employed by UVU who's been impressed with President Holland's performance.

[Kenngo1969]

10 minutes ago, rockpond said:

I didn't sense here that there was that "general tenor of some attitudes".  I also thought that most agreed Holland's UVU appointment cannot fit the definition of nepotism.

I apologize if I have misread.

Read my reply to you, above.  

[Duncan]

Just now, rongo said:

I think he has a better future as a General Authority. Ever since he started going by "first initial, middle name." 

N. Golden Pond . . .    

Check this fella out, funny name!

https://history.lds.org/missionary/individual/j-golden-snow-1900?lang=eng

[Calm]

Problem accepting a post so less detail...

Ken (and others), my husband is not aware of the process for Holland's appt, but he is aware of a few others where it appears their appointments may have been influenced by their status in the Church as certain steps in the hiring process appeared to him to have been skipped for these individuals, though of course it could be for other reasons.  Most likely, if the process was short circuited it was for multiple reasons and not just to get someone with church status of some kind, but that was seen as a plus.  He has no complaints about those so hired so far.

Politics occurs at UVU just like every other university he has been at.

[Guest]

On February 7, 2017 at 6:20 PM, bsjkki said:

When reading this announcement that Henry J. Eyring is the newly announced president of BYU-I, I noticed in my facebook stream, there were concerns about nepotism in church leadership. Is this a valid concern? From the article, it seems clear he is qualified for the position. Do you think the family name hurts or helps people when seeking employment in the church? http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865672792/Henry-J-Eyring-announced-as-new-president-of-BYU-Idaho.html?pg=all

We have had great leaders Prophets and Apostles who have been called while others served. If a man,or woman is qualified, and even more important, "called of God", then they should be called to serve. Just think of the great men all defendants of Hyrum Smith who have guided this Church, Joesph F Smith, Joseph Feiding Smith, Russel M Ballard, and by marriage, Bruce R. McConkie. "Whom the Lord calls, he qualifies".  

[Duncan]

It was Pres. George Albert Smith said that the only thing wrong with Pres. Joseph F. Smith is he called too many Smiths-i'll let you figure it out!

[Kenngo1969]

Yes, I know it's a smelly, stinky old thread, but I thought this had some bearing on the question.

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865676358/UVU-President-Matt-Holland-talks-school-mission-roots.html

The writer notes that Matt Holland didn't necessarily want the job at Utah Valley University/UVU (at least, not at first), didn't lobby for it, and, apparently, didn't have anyone else lobby for it on his behalf.  Matt Holland is more of a "pure" academic, more of an (and I'm not using this as an insult, a purpose for which it is often employed) Ivory Tower type.  Matt Holland has resisted the impulse (favored by some) to turn UVU into "BYU-Orem," i.e., a research-oriented university, keeping it true to its vocational technical roots.

Happy reading!  

[clarkgoble]

On 2/7/2017 at 4:20 PM, bsjkki said:

When reading this announcement that Henry J. Eyring is the newly announced president of BYU-I, I noticed in my facebook stream, there were concerns about nepotism in church leadership. Is this a valid concern? From the article, it seems clear he is qualified for the position. Do you think the family name hurts or helps people when seeking employment in the church? http://www.deseretnews.com/article/865672792/Henry-J-Eyring-announced-as-new-president-of-BYU-Idaho.html?pg=all

It's probably less the family name than the familiarity of the brethren with the figures. University President is one of those places they don't want to be surprised.

[clarkgoble]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Matt Holland has resisted the impulse (favored by some) to turn UVU into "BYU-Orem," i.e., a research-oriented university, keeping it true to its vocational technical roots.

Happy reading!  

Not necessarily a good thing, although I know some appreciate it. However I think there's so many people trying to go to college in Utah that many people want something like BYU or UoU but down near the Provo scene. 

That said UVU had a lot of trade training that is quite important such as paramedic, fire, and so forth. I'm not sure one couldn't amp up the more academic fields while still maintaining high quality trade education.

[cacheman]

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

The writer notes that Matt Holland didn't necessarily want the job at Utah Valley University/UVU (at least, not at first), didn't lobby for it, and, apparently, didn't have anyone else lobby for it on his behalf.

Hi Kenngo,

I read the article quickly, so I might have missed it....... but, where does the writer note or imply that Holland didn't have anyone else lobby for it (the job) on his behalf?  The article mentions that he had multiple calls encouraging him to apply, but I didn't see it noted whether this was before or after his formal nomination. 

Also, I would assume that he lobbied for himself during the application and interview process.  That's kind of the point....

2 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Matt Holland is more of a "pure" academic, more of an (and I'm not using this as an insult, a purpose for which it is often employed) Ivory Tower type.  Matt Holland has resisted the impulse (favored by some) to turn UVU into "BYU-Orem," i.e., a research-oriented university, keeping it true to its vocational technical roots.

I admire his approach.  I think more universities would benefit from this sort of pragmatic leadership. 

cacheman 

[Kenngo1969]

Cacheman:

Perhaps that was more me reading between the lines, but if I'm not sure I want a job (as Matt Holland wasn't at first), why, in Heaven's name, would I attempt to name-drop, pull strings, and so on, in order to get it?

Clark Goble:

I agree with you that a school may be able to fulfill more than one mission, at least in theory, but, on the other hand, cold, hard, practical realities are an entirely different thing.  There's only so much money to go around.  If someone seeking funding says, "[X] is our mission," and a funder says, "Great, I support [X]," then the fund-seeker switches gears and seeks funding for [Y] (or seeks funding for [Y] in addition to funding for [X]) (e.g., liberal arts education, as opposed to more technical or practical education) that funder will, rightly, start asking, "Wait a minute.  I thought you said [X] was your mission."

[clarkgoble]

3 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

I agree with you that a school may be able to fulfill more than one mission, at least in theory, but, on the other hand, cold, hard, practical realities are an entirely different thing.  There's only so much money to go around.

That's a fair point at which point the question becomes which is more valuable. I don't know the number of people seeking more traditional university degrees rather than the more vocational oriented associate degrees. So I can't speak to that. I do think Utah needs an other university in this area beyond BYU which is why I think UVU was first formed. But if you're going to have it be an university - with a student body now larger than BYU I believe - one wonders if that shouldn't be the focus.

[cacheman]

5 minutes ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Cacheman:

Perhaps that was more me reading between the lines, but if I'm not sure I want a job (as Matt Holland wasn't at first), why, in Heaven's name, would I attempt to name-drop, pull strings, and so on, in order to get it?

Did someone allege that he name-dropped and/or pulled strings to get the job?  I imagine that at least once he decided to accept the nomination and throw his hat in the ring, that he put his best foot forward from that point on. 

[Kenngo1969]

13 minutes ago, clarkgoble said:

That's a fair point at which point the question becomes which is more valuable. I don't know the number of people seeking more traditional university degrees rather than the more vocational oriented associate degrees. So I can't speak to that. I do think Utah needs an other university in this area beyond BYU which is why I think UVU was first formed. But if you're going to have it be an university - with a student body now larger than BYU I believe - one wonders if that shouldn't be the focus.

When you say, "I do think Utah needs another university in this area beyond BYU which is why I think UVU was first formed," are you talking about UVU's transition to university status, or are you talking about its inception?  If you're talking about the former, perhaps you have a point, but the mission of UVU at its inception (although, of course, it wasn't called that then) was technical and vocational education.  

I'm afraid I'm a bit jaundiced: As much as I love school and learning for learning's sake, it seems I'm destined forever to remain in a rut of being obscenely overeducated and/or being obscenely underemployed.  It seems I have far more education than I'll ever use.  (I got an associate's and a bachelor's and ... got a job answering phones.  Decided I didn't want to do that for the rest of my life, went back to school, lost my nerve and withdrew before receiving any credit, and ... got a job answering phones.  Decided I really didn't want to do that for the rest of my life, swallowed an enormous amount of pride, went back, graduated (albeit by the skin of my teeth and literally against all odds) and ... now I've got another job answering phones.

This is yet another jaundiced overstatement, but it seems as though everything that has happened to me from the moment I got that degree (more years ago now that I care to admit) is part of a giant conspiracy to try to make me regret getting it.  I don't, and I won't, even if I'm never able to convince anyone else that I'm actually good for something besides answering phones, but I think someone is far better off with a useful trade or technical education than I am with my gaudy post-bachelor's.