Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Fair Mormon says the following about living stipends for general authorities: "Some members of the Church are unaware that at least some General Authorities do receive a modest living stipend." http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_church_finances/No_paid_ministry Modest definition: "(of an amount, rate, or level of something) relatively moderate, limited, or small" The average income in the US in 2014 was ~$53,000; yet, the living allowance for apostles was $120,000 a year -- over twice the national average; the average world income is much lower. Calling $120,000 a year a "modest living stipend" is a blatant lie, IMO. http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040 Also, with the average age of apostles today being in the late 70's or around 80, they don't need to put kids through college or even raise young kids, along with the fact that all of their travel and logistics is already paid for by the church. http://www.sltrib.com/home/2245029-155/with-average-age-of-80-mormon What I find disheartening is the fact that these same apostles (who receive $120K a year from the church) travel to various countries throughout the world and tell many poor members to pay 10% of their income to the church. Does this bother anybody else?
rongo Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Not coming from you! Seriously --- all you do here is complain about the Church. It might help grease the skids a little with your anti-Church postings if you were genuinely positive, sometimes. You know --- once in a while. So that when you say that you love some things about your Mormon experience, it might just come across as sincere, and not an obligatory opening to ragging on the Church. 1
pogi Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Considering their position and what they do, I would call it very modest relatively speaking. 2
The Nehor Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Enjoy your outrage if it makes you feel better. 2 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: Does this bother anybody else? 2
Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, rongo said: Not coming from you! Seriously --- all you do here is complain about the Church. It might help grease the skids a little with your anti-Church postings if you were genuinely positive, sometimes. You know --- once in a while. So that when you say that you love some things about your Mormon experience, it might just come across as sincere, and not an obligatory opening to ragging on the Church. So, if I posted more uplifting posts about the church, then you wouldn't complain about the fact that all I do is "complain about the church?" Typical deflection -- highlight my negativity instead of actually answering the original post. 😃 Edited February 3, 2017 by Ouagadougou Add a smile emoji so I don't appear to be so negative and just complain about the church
Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, pogi said: Considering their position and what they do, I would call it very modest relatively speaking. How so? Position? Are they nothing more than corporate executives today? I didn't realize being an apostle had a price tag...
emeliza Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 What is the average cost of living in their areas of Utah and what income did they give up for the position? It seems rather high to me, but where I live it is a great income, probably not so much out west.
3DOP Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 19 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: Fair Mormon says the following about living stipends for general authorities: "Some members of the Church are unaware that at least some General Authorities do receive a modest living stipend." http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_church_finances/No_paid_ministry Modest definition: "(of an amount, rate, or level of something) relatively moderate, limited, or small" The average income in the US in 2014 was ~$53,000; yet, the living allowance for apostles was $120,000 a year -- over twice the national average; the average world income is much lower. Calling $120,000 a year a "modest living stipend" is a blatant lie, IMO. http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040 Also, with the average age of apostles today being in the late 70's or around 80, they don't need to put kids through college or even raise young kids, along with the fact that all of their travel and logistics is already paid for by the church. http://www.sltrib.com/home/2245029-155/with-average-age-of-80-mormon What I find disheartening is the fact that these same apostles (who receive $120K a year from the church) travel to various countries throughout the world and tell many poor members to pay 10% of their income to the church. Does this bother anybody else? Non-LDS and unbothered. Are you a Mormon?
Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 10 minutes ago, Duncan said: What if you made more than that? I don't make more than that...and most Americans don't make more than that...and most humans on earth don't make more than that...but it's a "modest" stipend for the truly humble, right?
Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 1 minute ago, 3DOP said: Non-LDS and unbothered. Are you a Mormon? Yeah, I am a member of the LDS church.
Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 3 minutes ago, emeliza said: What is the average cost of living in their areas of Utah and what income did they give up for the position? It seems rather high to me, but where I live it is a great income, probably not so much out west. "Utah's median-household income rose from $57,841 to $59,770 and is now ninth highest overall in the country." http://www.sltrib.com/news/1585040-155/utah-income-percent-household-data-growth Rather high is correct -- but I forgot that Christ might want them to own multiple houses.
Ouagadougou Posted February 3, 2017 Author Posted February 3, 2017 13 minutes ago, The Nehor said: Enjoy your outrage if it makes you feel better.
3DOP Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ouagadougou said: Yeah, I am a member of the LDS church. Okay. Well. to be fair, I am down on my church leadership too. It is a sad position that I understand well.
Johnnie Cake Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) I'd hate to live on $120,000 a year...that would suck...but its hardly a modest stipend Edited February 3, 2017 by Johnnie Cake
Duncan Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Just now, Ouagadougou said: I don't make more than that...and most Americans don't make more than that...and most humans on earth don't make more than that...but it's a "modest" stipend for the truly humble, right? what? I guess on average most Americans don't make more than that(I don't know I am not an American) but some do or a lot do. I bet Pres. Nelson and Elder Renlund made more than that but the others I wouldn't be surprised if they made around that. I bet too and he;s not an Apostle but Elder Kim Clark made more dosh at the Harvard Business School than he made at BYUI. Some folks are good money managers and can make a dollar stretch or just don't buy anything
Duncan Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Just now, Johnnie Cake said: I'd hate to live on $120,000 a year...that would suck...but its hardly a modest stipend I'll take that money off your hands
carbon dioxide Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said: Fair Mormon says the following about living stipends for general authorities: "Some members of the Church are unaware that at least some General Authorities do receive a modest living stipend." http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_church_finances/No_paid_ministry Modest definition: "(of an amount, rate, or level of something) relatively moderate, limited, or small" The average income in the US in 2014 was ~$53,000; yet, the living allowance for apostles was $120,000 a year -- over twice the national average; the average world income is much lower. Calling $120,000 a year a "modest living stipend" is a blatant lie, IMO. http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040 Also, with the average age of apostles today being in the late 70's or around 80, they don't need to put kids through college or even raise young kids, along with the fact that all of their travel and logistics is already paid for by the church. http://www.sltrib.com/home/2245029-155/with-average-age-of-80-mormon What I find disheartening is the fact that these same apostles (who receive $120K a year from the church) travel to various countries throughout the world and tell many poor members to pay 10% of their income to the church. Does this bother anybody else? Modest is relative to where one lives. 120K is a lot of money living in Wyoming. It would just get some people by in Silicon Valley or New York City. Living in Salt Lake City it would constitute a good middle class income. They can have a nice house but not too big and no Ferrari in the garage. 3
Duncan Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 Just now, carbon dioxide said: Modest is relative to where one lives. 120K is a lot of money living in Wyoming. It would just get some people by in Silicon Valley or New York City. Living in Salt Lake City it would constitute a good middle class income. They can have a nice house but not too big and no Ferrari in the garage. it's like in the Book of Mormon, the wearing of costly apparel is shunned. Well, to me a 1000 suit is costly but maybe to someone else a 4000 suit is costly and what's really the difference between the two? Give me Johnnie Cake's cash and i'll find out
JulieM Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said: Fair Mormon says the following about living stipends for general authorities: "Some members of the Church are unaware that at least some General Authorities do receive a modest living stipend." http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_church_finances/No_paid_ministry Modest definition: "(of an amount, rate, or level of something) relatively moderate, limited, or small" The average income in the US in 2014 was ~$53,000; yet, the living allowance for apostles was $120,000 a year -- over twice the national average; the average world income is much lower. Calling $120,000 a year a "modest living stipend" is a blatant lie, IMO. http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040 Also, with the average age of apostles today being in the late 70's or around 80, they don't need to put kids through college or even raise young kids, along with the fact that all of their travel and logistics is already paid for by the church. http://www.sltrib.com/home/2245029-155/with-average-age-of-80-mormon What I find disheartening is the fact that these same apostles (who receive $120K a year from the church) travel to various countries throughout the world and tell many poor members to pay 10% of their income to the church. Does this bother anybody else? I think they should get their living expenses covered, but I would not use the word "modest" to describe $10,000 (and probably more now) a month. Especially for older men who most likely have good retirement and investment income and a lot of their expenses paid (health insurance, travel expenses, etc.) i know these good men work hard, but no....this is not "modest" to most people in the U.S. and most especially for members around the world. Edited February 3, 2017 by JulieM
Raingirl Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said: Fair Mormon says the following about living stipends for general authorities: "Some members of the Church are unaware that at least some General Authorities do receive a modest living stipend." http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_church_finances/No_paid_ministry Modest definition: "(of an amount, rate, or level of something) relatively moderate, limited, or small" The average income in the US in 2014 was ~$53,000; yet, the living allowance for apostles was $120,000 a year -- over twice the national average; the average world income is much lower. Calling $120,000 a year a "modest living stipend" is a blatant lie, IMO. http://www.deptofnumbers.com/income/us/ http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-17512040 Also, with the average age of apostles today being in the late 70's or around 80, they don't need to put kids through college or even raise young kids, along with the fact that all of their travel and logistics is already paid for by the church. http://www.sltrib.com/home/2245029-155/with-average-age-of-80-mormon What I find disheartening is the fact that these same apostles (who receive $120K a year from the church) travel to various countries throughout the world and tell many poor members to pay 10% of their income to the church. Does this bother anybody else? So you're saying you'd happily take a job for which you are on call 24/7 for the rest of your life, for far less than $120,000 a year, right? I don't do anything of anywhere near the importance of what the apostles do, but even my time is more valuable than that. I wonder what you do for a living that you would place such a low value on your skills. By the way, what does putting kids through college or the number of kids one has, have to do with compensation? Is that how your employer determines wages? By how many kids you have? If so, they've got to be the only such employer on the planet. And I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be legal. 2
carbon dioxide Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 It is also unfair to judge them when one does not even know what they spend their money on. Perhaps they pay more than 10% in tithing. Perhaps they give a lot in fast offerings. You can bet the government takes a big chunk out. Perhaps some don't even take it. 1
VideoGameJunkie Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, rongo said: Not coming from you! Seriously --- all you do here is complain about the Church. It might help grease the skids a little with your anti-Church postings if you were genuinely positive, sometimes. You know --- once in a while. So that when you say that you love some things about your Mormon experience, it might just come across as sincere, and not an obligatory opening to ragging on the Church. I thought personal attacks weren't allowed on this board.
rongo Posted February 3, 2017 Posted February 3, 2017 1 hour ago, Ouagadougou said: So, if I posted more uplifting posts about the church, then you wouldn't complain about the fact that all I do is "complain about the church?" Typical deflection -- highlight my negativity instead of actually answering the original post. 😃 I've discussed this topic already to quite an extent, on multiple previous threads. Even with people I don't agree or see eye to eye with. Sans deflection. But, you have been nothing but a flame-throwing troll since you registered here. What new ground are you hoping to cover in *this* thread that already wasn't covered ad nauseum in the previous two or three? "Hey, guys! Is $120,000 modest? What do you think?"
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