What if it's ALL true?

[JLHPROF]

Just for fun (not so much for deep theological debate) because of 2 or 3 threads on the board right now (eternal nature, attracting disaffected, etc)

What if ALL recorded official/semi-official teachings and doctrines of Mormonism turn out to be absolutely true?

We spend a lot of time on this board debated how maybe the Book of Mormon is false, or polygamy was a mistake, or doctrine X or Y or Z is false because of reasons.
We break every teaching and practice of the Church down the smallest minutia.  We worry about whether the gospel is "true for me" and how it makes me feel.
And then we discuss what believers, doubters, questioners, former believers, etc should do/have done.

But just for kicks, what if you get to the other side and find out everything taught over the pulpit by the prophets and apostles was true.  What if they were absolutely right on the realities of eternity?
Is truth more important than feelings?
 

[Tacenda]

Then we have a God that likes to play tricks. 

[JLHPROF]

Just now, Tacenda said:

Then we have a God that likes to play tricks. 

No, we have a God that expects us to act in faith in his words.  I don't think he is tricking anyone.  Just expecting us to believe what he has revealed and act accordingly.

[CMZ]

If someone is a sincere seeker after truth then they will eventually be led to the truth.

 

Everyone has their own thing going on and perhaps different ways and timelines for arriving at their own realization of truth, but I don't understand people spending a lot of time talking about how much they don't believe in the Church.

[Buckeye]

6 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

But just for kicks, what if you get to the other side and find out everything taught over the pulpit by the prophets and apostles was true.  What if they were absolutely right on the realities of eternity?
Is truth more important than feelings?
 

I'd have to totally revisit my understanding of truth. For instance, I currently have no way to reconcile all of Paul H Dunn's baseball and war stories with his later admission that many of those stories were false. I also have no way of reconciling teachings from one leader that directly conflict with those of another; for example, Brigham's Adam-God verses the proclamation on Christ differ on Christ's OT role. Another example is the now-repudiated justifications for the racial priesthood ban  

I could keep going on about the contradictions but it'd be overkill. To answer the main gist of your question, though, if overall the main historical concepts taught repeatedly turn out to be factually true, then I'll have a mixed feeling of joy and horror, but mostly joy. 

[Buckeye]

If you want to better understand the significant ways in which LDS doctrine has changed over the years, I highly recommend byu professor Charles Harrell's This Is My Doctrine. 

[emeliza]

7 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

But just for kicks, what if you get to the other side and find out everything taught over the pulpit by the prophets and apostles was true.  What if they were absolutely right on the realities of eternity?
Is truth more important than feelings?
 

We would be even more confused because there are a ton of contradictions in things said over the pulpit.  Heck, there are a lot of contradictions in the scriptures.  

We would be better off to stick with the gospel principles and say it is all you need to know vs trying to accept each thing said ever.

[omni]

9 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Just for fun (not so much for deep theological debate) because of 2 or 3 threads on the board right now (eternal nature, attracting disaffected, etc)

What if ALL recorded official/semi-official teachings and doctrines of Mormonism turn out to be absolutely true?

We spend a lot of time on this board debated how maybe the Book of Mormon is false, or polygamy was a mistake, or doctrine X or Y or Z is false because of reasons.
We break every teaching and practice of the Church down the smallest minutia.  We worry about whether the gospel is "true for me" and how it makes me feel.
And then we discuss what believers, doubters, questioners, former believers, etc should do/have done.

But just for kicks, what if you get to the other side and find out everything taught over the pulpit by the prophets and apostles was true.  What if they were absolutely right on the realities of eternity?
Is truth more important than feelings?
 

I would be awefully confused with a lot of unanswered questions.  Of course I would have trillions of years to ponder these questions (along with all the rapists and murderers) while relegated to the  Telestial Kingdom for having the audacity to *gasp*, have a sinscere faith transition.

[Atheist Mormon]

2 hours ago, emeliza said:

  Heck, there are a lot of contradictions in the scriptures.  

Have you ever heard "God is not author of confusion"?

[sam]

In the end everybody is going to find out for sure.

For those who are faithful they have nothing to worry about whether they are wrong or right. Hypothetically speaking if they are wrong and there is not afterlife who cares.

If the those who are not faithful are wrong, in the afterlife they will receive accordingly to how they lived their life and their rejection of truth.

Edited December 18, 2016 by sam

[sam]

19 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Have you ever heard "God is not author of confusion"?

Confusion comes from people not god.

[mfbukowski]

10 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Just for fun (not so much for deep theological debate) because of 2 or 3 threads on the board right now (eternal nature, attracting disaffected, etc)

What if ALL recorded official/semi-official teachings and doctrines of Mormonism turn out to be absolutely true?

We spend a lot of time on this board debated how maybe the Book of Mormon is false, or polygamy was a mistake, or doctrine X or Y or Z is false because of reasons.
We break every teaching and practice of the Church down the smallest minutia.  We worry about whether the gospel is "true for me" and how it makes me feel.
And then we discuss what believers, doubters, questioners, former believers, etc should do/have done.

But just for kicks, what if you get to the other side and find out everything taught over the pulpit by the prophets and apostles was true.  What if they were absolutely right on the realities of eternity?
Is truth more important than feelings?
 

Of course it's true.

The problem is that we can only know that through feelings 

God told me so.

[Atheist Mormon]

37 minutes ago, sam said:

Confusion comes from people not god.

so, are you saying scriptures are authored by men?

[SteveO]

34 minutes ago, Atheist Mormon said:

so, are you saying scriptures are authored by men?

Are you really going to pretend you don't know the answer to this?  Read the title page of the BoM.

Edited December 18, 2016 by SteveO

[sam]

1 hour ago, Atheist Mormon said:

so, are you saying scriptures are authored by men?

Last time I check it was authored by men inspired by God.

[JLHPROF]

4 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I'd have to totally revisit my understanding of truth. For instance, I currently have no way to reconcile all of Paul H Dunn's baseball and war stories with his later admission that many of those stories were false. I also have no way of reconciling teachings from one leader that directly conflict with those of another; for example, Brigham's Adam-God verses the proclamation on Christ differ on Christ's OT role. Another example is the now-repudiated justifications for the racial priesthood ban  

I could keep going on about the contradictions but it'd be overkill. To answer the main gist of your question, though, if overall the main historical concepts taught repeatedly turn out to be factually true, then I'll have a mixed feeling of joy and horror, but mostly joy. 

Totally willing to agree that there have been conflicting teachings among the contents I propose.  (The Paul H. Dunn situation is not exactly what I was referring to).

In addition to my original post addressing the doubting of certain teachings I also think it's important to recognize that at different periods in Church history members have been taught and accepted different doctrines.  As a result I think it's too big of an assumption that many of the things they believed were wrong but we are much less wrong.
So you bring up Adam God, and without going into doctrine on the issue
To my original point, what if the 19th century believers in that doctrine are actually correct?
Or to the counter point what if we are correct today - what did that mean for the 19th century saints when they passed on and discovered they were wrong?

[JLHPROF]

5 hours ago, Buckeye said:

If you want to better understand the significant ways in which LDS doctrine has changed over the years, I highly recommend byu professor Charles Harrell's This Is My Doctrine. 

Read it twice.  Very interesting book.
For the sake of this thread I am not addressing the contradicting doctrines.
I am more interested in how people think they might respond upon finding out doctrines taught that they don't believe are actually true.

[emeliza]

3 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

Have you ever heard "God is not author of confusion"?

Yep, but unfortunately (and fortunately), God uses man to help teach and spread the gospel and well, mankind is rather confusing.

[Glenn101]

6 hours ago, Buckeye said:

I'd have to totally revisit my understanding of truth. For instance, I currently have no way to reconcile all of Paul H Dunn's baseball and war stories with his later admission that many of those stories were false. I also have no way of reconciling teachings from one leader that directly conflict with those of another; for example, Brigham's Adam-God verses the proclamation on Christ differ on Christ's OT role. Another example is the now-repudiated justifications for the racial priesthood ban  

I could keep going on about the contradictions but it'd be overkill. To answer the main gist of your question, though, if overall the main historical concepts taught repeatedly turn out to be factually true, then I'll have a mixed feeling of joy and horror, but mostly joy. 

Paul H. Dunn's inspiring but fictional stories were not taught as doctrine(s).

When you research and read everything that Brigham Young taught about God the father,Christ, Adam, and their roles, you will find that Brigham understood and taught correct relationships between the three. It takes a lot of digging, and reading but it is our understanding of what he actually taught that is remiss here because what Brigham taught has been filtered through the lens and understanding of those who recorded and transcribed his sermons.

The core doctrines of God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Ghost, the atonement, priesthood, eternal families as they have been preached and are being preached are the things that I believe that JLHPROF are talking about. It is those doctrines that I believe in completely. Whatever else is in store I will worry about when the time comes, such as polygamy, etc. I have put my faith in God that what He has in store for me should I be worthy is better than anything that I can imagine. That seems to be the hard part for so many.

But it is all true. I've bet my life on it.

Glenn

Edited December 18, 2016 by Glenn101
just couldn't leavt it at that

[CV75]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

What if ALL recorded official/semi-official teachings and doctrines of Mormonism turn out to be absolutely true?

I will join the Church of the Firstborn instead (eventually!)...

[CV75]

1 hour ago, JLHPROF said:

Totally willing to agree that there have been conflicting teachings among the contents I propose.  (The Paul H. Dunn situation is not exactly what I was referring to).

In addition to my original post addressing the doubting of certain teachings I also think it's important to recognize that at different periods in Church history members have been taught and accepted different doctrines.  As a result I think it's too big of an assumption that many of the things they believed were wrong but we are much less wrong.
So you bring up Adam God, and without going into doctrine on the issue
To my original point, what if the 19th century believers in that doctrine are actually correct?
Or to the counter point what if we are correct today - what did that mean for the 19th century saints when they passed on and discovered they were wrong?

One of the blessings of mortality and grace is that being "correct enough" eradicates a lot of contradictions.

[strappinglad]

My biggest worry is that when I arrive on the other side, I will still see divisions of opinion on doctrine and history and science! BY said that such would be during the millennium at least for the first few centuries and that at the end of the millennium there will be another great falling away. If this discord exists in paradise , well maybe that is required for humans to continue their repentance process . But if all eternity is a constant battle in the search for the " true truth " , then I will have a serious bone to pick with whomever thinks they are in charge.

  Having said that, my readings of the NDE experiences do give me hope that all questions are answered , even in paradise. Perhaps less so in that other realm.

[Johnnie Cake]

13 hours ago, JLHPROF said:

Just for fun (not so much for deep theological debate) because of 2 or 3 threads on the board right now (eternal nature, attracting disaffected, etc)

What if ALL recorded official/semi-official teachings and doctrines of Mormonism turn out to be absolutely true?

We spend a lot of time on this board debated how maybe the Book of Mormon is false, or polygamy was a mistake, or doctrine X or Y or Z is false because of reasons.
We break every teaching and practice of the Church down the smallest minutia.  We worry about whether the gospel is "true for me" and how it makes me feel.
And then we discuss what believers, doubters, questioners, former believers, etc should do/have done.

But just for kicks, what if you get to the other side and find out everything taught over the pulpit by the prophets and apostles was true.  What if they were absolutely right on the realities of eternity?
Is truth more important than feelings?
 

Then everything we know about our world, the laws of science and nature, observations seen and discovered on both earth and in heaven are all false...and God is a liar

[strappinglad]

28 minutes ago, CV75 said:

One of the blessings of mortality and grace is that being "correct enough" eradicates a lot of contradictions.

In carpentry , things may not be perfectly level or perfectly plumb, but if they line up nicely to the eye, then they are considered ' true ' . Just a metaphor.

[strappinglad]

6 minutes ago, Johnnie Cake said:

Then everything we know about our world, the laws of science and nature, observations seen and discovered on both earth and in heaven are all false...and God is a liar

we are told that the  'god of this world ' is a liar ... the very best in fact.

Theories like relativity and quantum mechanics seem to put a ' lie ' to other theories held for centuries. The god of science appears to have been ' lying ' all along. Pick your poison.