Allegedly secret LDS Church documents leaked

[ALarson]

8 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

There is nothing particularly interesting or shocking.  I mean there's a standard issue HR disciplinary action document like at every place I've ever worked only with a scripture included.
Most "shocking" thing there is the garment catalog.

I think there are some potential financial docs that the church would not want released.  There have also been a few other tidbits that I would imagine they'd like to keep private (thus, those marked "confidential" or "classified").  But yeah, nothing "shocking" from what I've read.

Their claim that they have 1000's more to release and don't really know for sure what is in them, really makes me believe this is a hack job rather than a disgruntled employee.  I can't imagine he won't be legally stopped before he dumps them all for the public to see.

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Edited September 23, 2016 by ALarson

[The Nehor]

Just now, JLHPROF said:

There is nothing particularly interesting or shocking.  I mean there's a standard issue HR disciplinary action document like at every place I've ever worked only with a scripture included.
Most "shocking" thing there is the garment catalog.

Fascinating reading about adapting garments for special needs amirite?

[The Nehor]

Just now, ALarson said:

I think there is some potential financial docs that the church would not want released.  There have also been a few other tidbits that I would imagine they'd like to keep private (thus, those marked "confidential" or "classified").  But yeah, nothing "shocking" from what I've read.

Their claim that they have 1000's more to release and don't really know for sure what is in them, really makes me believe this is a hack job rather than a disgruntled employee.  I can't imagine he won't be legally stopped before he dumps them all for the public to see.

.

I don't see it as that unlikely. I could go into work tomorrow and copy hundreds of policy documents and memos, almost all of them confidential, and walk out with them with ease.

[The Nehor]

I have a mental picture of his guy with a cardboard sign saying "Will leak more confidential LDS documents for food."

[ALarson]

8 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I don't see it as that unlikely. I could go into work tomorrow and copy hundreds of policy documents and memos, almost all of them confidential, and walk out with them with ease.

Wow, seriously?  I admit this is a topic I know nothing about, but I would hope that the church's classified and confidential files are more protected and the security is better than where you work!  

[Jeanne]

39 minutes ago, JulieM said:

You must not have really looked at what's been leaked. There is much more than just a policy manual and random memos.  I'm not saying it's anything shocking, but it's a lot more than what your simple dismissal implies.

I agree.  The thing is..no matter what is out there, we know more now than we did yesterday morning.  The difference of plane fares for each organization..and the fact that it really is managed and in black and white ..that this is a real corporation and they can't deny that it is run any other way.  There are things in there that are not shocking but sustains some ideas we knew but had no proof of.  If knowledge is power...the church lost just a teensy bit of that..  The dollar amounts on furniture..I mean...a lot of money just for a headboard would feed a family for half a year..enuf..said..I am sorry.

[The Nehor]

22 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Wow, seriously?  I admit this is a topic I know nothing about, but I would hope that the church's classified and confidential files are more protected and the security is better than where you work!  

Maybe but I doubt it. The truth is that a lot of people need access to these files. Copying files is easy. Now I imagine things like tithing records, disciplinary records, and minutes for Quorum of the Twelve meetings have much tighter security and can only be accessed by fewer people and that the system will track who has access to them. It is the same at most offices. Where I work policy documents and non-sensitive memos are easy for anyone to get. Management meeting decisions are more restricted, technical and engineering documentation our competitors would love to have are even more secure and restricted, and files containing customer information are restricted on who needs to know and you can track who accesses those files.

Putting a big security wall around everything that is in anyway confidential is expensive and probably not worth the cost. I would personally rather tithing money not go to protecting general information on meeting with public officials and garment material descriptions.

[The Nehor]

9 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

I agree.  The thing is..no matter what is out there, we know more now than we did yesterday morning.  

I could say the same thing if I went and looked up London bus routes and learned those. Yes, technically we have more information but is it meaningful? I did not learn anything I did not already expect.

10 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

The difference of plane fares for each organization..and the fact that it really is managed and in black and white ..that this is a real corporation and they can't deny that it is run any other way.  There are things in there that are not shocking but sustains some ideas we knew but had no proof of.  If knowledge is power...the church lost just a teensy bit of that..  The dollar amounts on furniture..I mean...a lot of money just for a headboard would feed a family for half a year..enuf..said..I am sorry.

This I do not understand. Of course it is run on business lines. They want to be efficient. Policies are in place to protect the organization and the people who rely on it (aka me). If they do not have policies in place someone will start booking first-class flights for short-term hops, legal problems will not be seen and lawsuits that cost millions of dollars could cost us temples and chapels, policy will not be adapted to local laws resulting in costly mistakes, and if there are no policies in place local leaders will be left to make it up as they go instead of learning from the mistakes of others and having solid guidelines.

There is nothing morally pure about having an anarchic organization. Even tiny one congregation churches have guidelines like these though to a lesser extent as they generally do not have to worry about international laws.

[Jeanne]

10 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

I could say the same thing if I went and looked up London bus routes and learned those. Yes, technically we have more information but is it meaningful? I did not learn anything I did not already expect.

This I do not understand. Of course it is run on business lines. They want to be efficient. Policies are in place to protect the organization and the people who rely on it (aka me). If they do not have policies in place someone will start booking first-class flights for short-term hops, legal problems will not be seen and lawsuits that cost millions of dollars could cost us temples and chapels, policy will not be adapted to local laws resulting in costly mistakes, and if there are no policies in place local leaders will be left to make it up as they go instead of learning from the mistakes of others and having solid guidelines.

There is nothing morally pure about having an anarchic organization. Even tiny one congregation churches have guidelines like these though to a lesser extent as they generally do not have to worry about international laws.

Well...when plane fares what class you fly on differs between male authorities and RS and Prim..YW General Presidencies..it gives one a "but why" moment.  But I repped you because I do understand that corp has to run as such and of course policies and guidelines is the only for a corporation to run.

[The Nehor]

8 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Well...when plane fares what class you fly on differs between male authorities and RS and Prim..YW General Presidencies..it gives one a "but why" moment.  But I repped you because I do understand that corp has to run as such and of course policies and guidelines is the only for a corporation to run.

I must admit I was a bit baffled by that document. I kind of understand the difference. The General Authorities of the church have different rules depending on whether they are in the Twelve and the first two Seventies quorums which is good because of most likely increased age.

The rest of the Seventies are to use business class only when longer then a five hour flight.

The Auxiliaries (defined as Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary) are to use business class for international flight and coach for everything else. 

I think the latter two shake out to roughly the same thing. The difference is that all of the Auxiliary leaders are based in the United States and the Seventies are not. Unless you are flying to Alaska or Hawaii all domestic flights are not much longer then five hours. It makes sense to keep the rules different as telling a Seventy based in Spain he can use Business travel whenever he travels internationally would mean business class to Paris or Lisbon which is a short flight.

The only baffling thing I thought was what about the other auxiliaries (specifically Young Men and Sunday School)? Do they not travel at all? They do not seem to be covered anywhere. If they had different rules that would seem like a bit of a gender bias but as it stands I did not really see any. Going off memory here too so maybe I got something wrong.

[Jeanne]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

I must admit I was a bit baffled by that document. I kind of understand the difference. The General Authorities of the church have different rules depending on whether they are in the Twelve and the first two Seventies quorums which is good because of most likely increased age.

The rest of the Seventies are to use business class only when longer then a five hour flight.

The Auxiliaries (defined as Relief Society, Young Women, and Primary) are to use business class for international flight and coach for everything else. 

I think the latter two shake out to roughly the same thing. The difference is that all of the Auxiliary leaders are based in the United States and the Seventies are not. Unless you are flying to Alaska or Hawaii all domestic flights are not much longer then five hours. It makes sense to keep the rules different as telling a Seventy based in Spain he can use Business travel whenever he travels internationally would mean business class to Paris or Lisbon which is a short flight.

The only baffling thing I thought was what about the other auxiliaries (specifically Young Men and Sunday School)? Do they not travel at all? They do not seem to be covered anywhere. If they had different rules that would seem like a bit of a gender bias but as it stands I did not really see any. Going off memory here too so maybe I got something wrong.

I would have to read it over again myself. I don't remember about the other auxiliaries.  Well..I hope other young women..primaries in the world will have an opportunity to meet these people who are responsible for them. 

[rodheadlee]

This whole thing is despicable. From stealing them, to posting them, to reading them.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, rodheadlee said:

This whole thing is despicable. From stealing them, to posting them, to reading them.

I think 'despicable' gives them too much credit. I prefer 'pathetic' or 'sad'. I pity the nut who did this. In many ways he is too weak to be contemptible.

[Robert F. Smith]

14 hours ago, Duncan said:

I think........I read a blog about a couple who did that a few years ago. I don't know if I would use the word influence as more of a Church representative. Correction looks like a Church rep. for the EU

The Vatican (which is a mini-state) has formal ambassadors in all such cases.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, ALarson said:

Wow, seriously?  I admit this is a topic I know nothing about, but I would hope that the church's classified and confidential files are more protected and the security is better than where you work!  

With all the hacking and leaking going on in recent years, the lesson should be clear:  None of your secrets are safe, so make your secret life one you can be proud of.  Don't say or do anything you would not want made fully public at some point.  There is nothing hidden which will not be made known.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Robert F. Smith

[Nevo]

Some of the documents appear to be legit, but I'd wager several are fakes.

[Calm]

What a waste of time if so.

[Robert F. Smith]

6 hours ago, Nevo said:

Some of the documents appear to be legit, but I'd wager several are fakes.

Yeh, and Mark Hofmann is no doubt laughing up a storm at the Utah State Prison.

[ALarson]

8 hours ago, Nevo said:

Some of the documents appear to be legit, but I'd wager several are fakes.

I haven't read enough of them to have an opinion.  With this guy claiming he doesn't even know all that he has, he just seems to be dumping without even having read the docs (if we can even believe anything he states).

I'm sure if anything is found that is controversial at all, there are ways to check it for authenticity.  I imagine that If signatures or letterheads have been faked, that's pretty easy to detect.

Just curious which ones you feel are fake?  

[Nevo]

14 minutes ago, ALarson said:

Just curious which ones you feel are fake?  

I think #1, #3, #12, #13, #39, #40, #48, and #49 are probably fakes.  

[Calm]

Has anyone seen a globe used as a logo on LDS documents?

[ALarson]

1 hour ago, Nevo said:

I think #1, #3, #12, #13, #39, #40, #48, and #49 are probably fakes.  

Thanks Nevo.  I'll take a look if I get a chance, but it looks like you've gone through them!

[Tacenda]

18 hours ago, Jeanne said:

I agree.  The thing is..no matter what is out there, we know more now than we did yesterday morning.  The difference of plane fares for each organization..and the fact that it really is managed and in black and white ..that this is a real corporation and they can't deny that it is run any other way.  There are things in there that are not shocking but sustains some ideas we knew but had no proof of.  If knowledge is power...the church lost just a teensy bit of that..  The dollar amounts on furniture..I mean...a lot of money just for a headboard would feed a family for half a year..enuf..said..I am sorry.

The amount spent or wasted is a shame. ETA: https://bycommonconsent.com/2011/01/27/approaching-zion-solving-the-problem-of-malnutrition/

Edited September 24, 2016 by Tacenda

[Calm]

The library choices for #1 are rather strange.  Why the Western Gardening Book given it would only be applicable for a minority of temples? Plus the reference books for service, incomplete for service needs (nothing to do with food prep for example even though they have it for HVAC systems), so what exactly is their purpose?  Also the book covers are sometimes wrong for the type of book (paperback instead of hardback) and it doesn't always include the sku, a necessity in ordering books.

Tacenda and Jeanne, you will be happy to hear that the cost of the Legrand Richards book looks like it is at cost given the hardback cost online is abt $28 and the listing in the guide has it at abt $17.  So not much waste there and not much profit rolling back into whoever's pocket converting money from tithing to for profit.

 

Edited September 24, 2016 by Calm

[Calm]

So the visuals on 1 and 3 look really unprofessional, like someone grabbed them from a 90s clip art file...the globe, the church with flags and trees.  Weird, the Church needs to dump those if by chance that is on the actual files.

Font keeps changing too.  Not what I expect from the Church.

Edited September 24, 2016 by Calm