The beguiling by Satan

[theplains]

I had a question on this part of the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 9:9 says, "And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, 
angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the 
father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first 
parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the 
children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of 
darkness."

There are other references to the beguiling of our first parents in Mosiah 16:3 and
Ether 8:15.  

I know from the Bible that Eve was beguiled by Satan (2 Corinthians 11:3) and that
Eve was deceived, not Adam (1 Timothy 2:14).

In what way does the author of the Book of Mormon feel Adam was also beguiled?

Thanks,
Jim

[CV75]

24 minutes ago, theplains said:

I had a question on this part of the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 9:9 says, "And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, 
angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the 
father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first 
parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the 
children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of 
darkness."

There are other references to the beguiling of our first parents in Mosiah 16:3 and
Ether 8:15.  

I know from the Bible that Eve was beguiled by Satan (2 Corinthians 11:3) and that
Eve was deceived, not Adam (1 Timothy 2:14).

In what way does the author of the Book of Mormon feel Adam was also beguiled?

Thanks,
Jim

From 2 Corinthians 11:3, as Eve was beguiled, so the minds of everyone else should be corrupted (Adam included). Adam was beguiled to play into the beguilement the serpent set up, just as we are until we find redemption, as he did.

[waveslider]

Satan knew Adam would want to obey all of Heavenly Father's commandments. Satan manipulated Adam into it by beguiling Eve first. He knew that she would fall, be sent away from her higher estate and die off, while Adam would have been separated from her and therefore wouldn't be able to obey the commandment to multiply and replenish the Earth, unless he also partook of the fruit. So it was a form of manipulation perpetuated by Satan, and therefore can be termed as a beguilement. Just my two cents worth anyway.

[Duncan]

Satan beguiled Adam by telling him he could somehow hide and hide his nudidity behind some fig leafs and as we know leafs shrivel up so you can't hide for long

[Robert F. Smith]

7 minutes ago, waveslider said:

Satan knew Adam would want to obey all of Heavenly Father's commandments. Satan manipulated Adam into it by beguiling Eve first. He knew that she would fall, be sent away from her higher estate and die off, while Adam would have been separated from her and therefore wouldn't be able to obey the commandment to multiply and replenish the Earth, unless he also partook of the fruit. So it was a form of manipulation perpetuated by Satan, and therefore can be termed as a beguilement. Just my two cents worth anyway.

That sums it up nicely, but it is more than that:  The entire sequence of events is set ritual and liturgy, the Garden a temple.  Everything takes place as it always has, ad infinitum.  We all take part in it in every endowment session, and actors play our roles, either on screen in film, or live and in costume (as in the SLC or Manti temples, or once upon a time in the Nauvoo Temple and the old Endowment House).  All humans must take part in that same ritual sequence, even if vicariously.  This was once the generic pattern in the ancient mystery religions, and Mormonism has rightly been termed a modern mystery religion.

[JLHPROF]

The fall was the plan all along even if Adam and Eve didn't know that when they disobeyed.

Perhaps Satan was the one truly beguiled in the end.

Edited September 18, 2016 by JLHPROF

[Five Solas]

41 minutes ago, JLHPROF said:

...

Perhaps Saran was the one truly beguiled in the end.

I certainly hope not, I used it to cover the lunch leftovers...

;0)

--Erik

[JLHPROF]

52 minutes ago, Five Solas said:

I certainly hope not, I used it to cover the lunch leftovers...

;0)

--Erik

Teach me to post from my wife's phone.  Stupid tiny keyboard.

[thesometimesaint]

9 hours ago, theplains said:

I had a question on this part of the Book of Mormon.

2 Nephi 9:9 says, "And our spirits must have become like unto him, and we become devils, 
angels to a devil, to be shut out from the presence of our God, and to remain with the 
father of lies, in misery, like unto himself; yea, to that being who beguiled our first 
parents, who transformeth himself nigh unto an angel of light, and stirreth up the 
children of men unto secret combinations of murder and all manner of secret works of 
darkness."

There are other references to the beguiling of our first parents in Mosiah 16:3 and
Ether 8:15.  

I know from the Bible that Eve was beguiled by Satan (2 Corinthians 11:3) and that
Eve was deceived, not Adam (1 Timothy 2:14).

In what way does the author of the Book of Mormon feel Adam was also beguiled?

Thanks,
Jim

Adam chose to be wit Eve.

Edited September 18, 2016 by thesometimesaint
spelling

[CV75]

21 hours ago, Duncan said:

Satan beguiled Adam by telling him he could somehow hide and hide his nudidity behind some fig leafs and as we know leafs shrivel up so you can't hide for long

Unless it's very cold outside.

[thesometimesaint]

Certain varieties of fig leaves have tiny syringe like spines. They cause intense itching. Putting them in a delicate area wouldn't be nice.

[Atheist Mormon]

On 9/17/2016 at 2:23 PM, theplains said:

In what way does the author of the Book of Mormon feel Adam was also beguiled?

Thanks,
Jim

I'm sorry, I find this very offensive from intellectual perspective; If I'm God & created a fragile man & woman...why would I put a cunning, extremely intelligent Satan to prey them? It doesn't make sense.

Edited September 19, 2016 by Atheist Mormon

[thesometimesaint]

Agency.

[Gray]

16 hours ago, Atheist Mormon said:

I'm sorry, I find this very offensive from intellectual perspective; If I'm God & created a fragile man & woman...why would I put a cunning, extremely intelligent Satan to prey them? It doesn't make sense.

It wasn't Satan, it was a snake. Snakes are cunning creatures. 

[theplains]

On 17/09/2016 at 4:58 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

That sums it up nicely, but it is more than that:  The entire sequence of events is set ritual and liturgy, the Garden a temple.

Do you believe Eve recognized her nakedness and felt shame right after she ate from the forbidden fruit
or was it only after Adam had partook?

Thanks,
Jim

[Robert F. Smith]

5 hours ago, theplains said:

Do you believe Eve recognized her nakedness and felt shame right after she ate from the forbidden fruit
or was it only after Adam had partook?

Thanks,
Jim

Don't know, but then that is a figurative expression anyhow (the tree and the fruit) and is a formal part of the ritual.

[Doctrine 612]

I asked my self why was Satan in trouble for what he did was it not the plan to eat of it anyway?

was Christ as our savior a back up plan?

after some reflection I came to the point that one it's about agency.

and two that God wanted them to put forth the faith and trust in Christ knowing that he would over come death and save them.

just my two cents

[JLHPROF]

12 minutes ago, Doctrine 612 said:

I asked my self why was Satan in trouble for what he did was it not the plan to eat of it anyway?

was Christ as our savior a back up plan?

after some reflection I came to the point that one it's about agency.

and two that God wanted them to put forth the faith and trust in Christ knowing that he would over come death and save them.

just my two cents

Christ as Savior was the plan from the beginning.

The fact that Satan brought about the fall and Judas brought about the Atoning Sacrifice didn't make their acts any less evil.
But the plan was the plan long before the fall and the Savior was chosen to sacrifice his life for our sins before we ever had the ability to commit one.

The atonement did not come about because "oops, Adam ate the fruit despite being warned, now what are we going to do".
 

[waveslider]

12 hours ago, Doctrine 612 said:

I asked my self why was Satan in trouble for what he did was it not the plan to eat of it anyway?

I don't know exactly why, but I have an idea that seems pretty logical to me:

When my kids were really little, and they loved to flip switches and turn knobs of any kind, I had to make sure they never turned the stove knobs. It could potentially burn our entire house down and kill us all, if they were allowed to do that while they were little. Once they grew enough to learn about responsibility, and learn to cook and things, that rule was changed and they were now allowed to turn those knobs. I would have made sure my baby sitter was in trouble if the sitter told my toddlers that it was okay because other kids have done it, in other houses.

Perhaps the command to not partake of the fruit of the tree of knowledge was only there until Adam and Eve were more ready to move on to that step and therefore be allowed, having a controlled fall rather than the premature, reckless fall that was experienced. Just a thought anyway.

[theplains]

On 20/09/2016 at 0:16 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

Don't know, but then that is a figurative expression anyhow (the tree and the fruit) and is a formal part of the ritual.

Do you mean LDS don't believe they ate literal fruit from a literally forbidden tree?

Thanks,
Jim

[mfbukowski]

On 9/19/2016 at 9:05 AM, thesometimesaint said:

Agency.

Saran wrap

[mfbukowski]

On 9/19/2016 at 11:48 AM, Gray said:

It wasn't Satan, it was a snake. Snakes are cunning creatures. 

What about Moses' Brazen serpent?.

 

[Robert F. Smith]

On 9/18/2016 at 8:38 PM, Atheist Mormon said:

I'm sorry, I find this very offensive from intellectual perspective; If I'm God & created a fragile man & woman...why would I put a cunning, extremely intelligent Satan to prey them? It doesn't make sense.

It's in the script there, and in the story of Job -- which is also a pageant.

[Robert F. Smith]

2 hours ago, theplains said:

Do you mean LDS don't believe they ate literal fruit from a literally forbidden tree?

Thanks,
Jim

Some LDS and non-LDS readers of the Bible are literalists and do believe such things.  No doubt they also believe that Eve was formed from a rib of Adam.   However, the Brethren have made it clear that there are figurative expressions there, and that the story is symbolic.  The symbols are part of the temple pageant taking place.  They are part of an eternal, very real covenantal process, same as in the case of the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper, in which the bread and wine/ water are merely symbolic emblems which remind us of the body and blood of our Savior.  They are not literally his body & blood.

The Creation & Garden story is a mystery play with eternal meaning, a ritual in which we all must take part either here or hereafter.  Before the dominance of apostate Christianity in the West many peoples regularly participated in such mystery plays.  They all shared certain similarities, coming down from high antiquity, and changing through time.

[JLHPROF]

3 hours ago, theplains said:

Do you mean LDS don't believe they ate literal fruit from a literally forbidden tree?

I'm more literalist than most but while I consider the partaking of mortal elements to cause the fall as one possibility I am equally open to the possibility that the "fruit" had a direct correlation with the procreation of mortal children and was therefore symbolic of something else as represented by the placement of the fig leaves.