The exact location of the Waters of Ripliancum

[sam]

Based on a simple interpretation of verses in the Book of Mormon there is an excellent chance we can know the exact location of the waters of ripliancum. Based on the simple idea that Mormon hid the golden found exactly where it was revealed to Joseph Smith we can know with good assurance where these waters or should I say waterfall is located.

 

Ether 15:8-11

In the last battles of the Jaredites Shiz and Coriantumr armies are battling. After one particular the armies make camp next to the water of Ripliancum.

8 And it came to pass that he came to the waters of Ripliancum, which, by interpretation, is large, or to exceed all; wherefore, when they came to these waters they pitched their tents; and Shiz also pitched his tents near unto them; and therefore on the morrow they did come to battle.

The waters of ripliancum is not described as a sea or body of water or even a river. But we know that the waters are large or in this description it exceeds all in size. If it was a body of water that would have been made known.

9 And it came to pass that they fought an exceedingly sore battle, in which Coriantumr was wounded again, and he fainted with the loss of blood.

The armies battle again.

10 And it came to pass that the armies of Coriantumr did press upon the armies of Shiz that they beat them, that they caused them to flee before them; and they did flee southward, and did pitch their tents in a place which was called Ogath.

Coriantumr causes the armies of Shiz to flee or retreat. Shiz’s Armies flee southward. But it does not state in which direction the Armies of Coriantumr flee or for how long they retreated for but it does state in the next verse when they did pitch their tents and the following verse states they did gather all the people in the land.

11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

12 And it came to pass that they did gather together all the people upon all the face of the land, who had not been slain, save it was Ether.

Assuming that Mormon did hide up the records at the Hill Cumorah (and there is no reason not think otherwise) then the Waters of Ripliancum could be nothing other than the Niagara Falls. Its approximately 70 miles from Niagara fall to the Hill Cumorah. Niagara Falls is the largest waterfall in the world in terms of water flow. Its an impressive site mentioned in the Book of Mormon as large or to exceed all.

[CV75]

3 minutes ago, sam said:

Niagara Falls is the largest waterfall in the world in terms of water flow. Its an impressive site mentioned in the Book of Mormon as large or to exceed all.

And that is how Corianton had Shiz over a barrel.

[ksfisher]

You may want to go back and edit your post to reflect the fact that it was Moroni who hid the golden plates for Joseph Smit to find, not Mormon.  I guess this is what you are refering to in your first and last paragraphs.

Edited August 23, 2016 by ksfisher

[sam]

1 minute ago, ksfisher said:

You may want to go back and edit your post to reflect the fact that it was Moroni who hid the golden plates for Joseph Smit to find, not Mormon.  I guess this is what you are refering to in your first paragraph.

Moroni in verse 11 states that his father Mormon hid the records. Moroni put the records back where his father hid them.

[sam]

I should of stated the topic as I know where the exact location of the waters of ripliancum are located.

[ksfisher]

5 minutes ago, sam said:

Moroni in verse 11 states that his father Mormon hid the records. Moroni put the records back where his father hid them.

Verse 11 of what?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it say where Moroni buried the plates?  

When you say records what exactly are you refering to?  The Nephites had lots of records?

[sam]

We know the Golden plates were buried in the Hill Cumorah. Based on how I read the verses I believe Mormon also buried the Golden Plates in the same spot Joseph Smith retrieved the plates. Moroni retrieved the plates and put them back in the same spot as his father.

[ksfisher]

19 minutes ago, sam said:

We know the Golden plates were buried in the Hill Cumorah. Based on how I read the verses I believe Mormon also buried the Golden Plates in the same spot Joseph Smith retrieved the plates. Moroni retrieved the plates and put them back in the same spot as his father.

Except the text never says that Mormon buried the golden plates.  He burried the Nephite sacred records in the Hill Cumorah, but gave the records that we call the golden plates to his son Moroni.  This is recorded in Mormon 6:6.

I point this out, even though it is not the point of your OP, to highlight that you are not reading the text carefully.  

As to your OP about the Waters of Ripliancum; you've jumped from saying that since the text does not state that they are a river or a lake that it must be a waterfall.  What is to stop these waters from being a river or lake even if it isn't stated?  How about an ocean or estuary or any other body of water not mentioned in the text.

You seem to be trying so hard to fit the Book of Mormon into the Great Lakes region that you've stared with an answer and then formed a question for that answer to fit into.

 

[ttribe]

46 minutes ago, sam said:

I should of stated the topic as I know where the exact location of the waters of ripliancum are located.

Color me skeptical.

Sorry.

[sam]

18 minutes ago, ttribe said:

Color me skeptical.

Sorry.

Geographically and scripturally its a very good fit.

[PeterPear]

3 hours ago, sam said:

Geographically and scripturally its a very good fit.

Sam, you have to understand. The purpose of this board, I believe, was to promote a Mesoamerica Geography Theory for the Book of Mormon. Published LDS Apologists hang out here to defend it including the admins. They'll sit back and wait for any criticism of the theory then get into a verbal sparring match with you. These include BYU Professors with PhDs and such people of lesser classification, if one is into classifying people. So even if you quote scripture they have answers for it, including their followers. It's no secret. You may know this.

You can post nearly any criticsm of the Church you want, but if you criticize the LGT (Limited Geography Theory), you're on their "list." You're marked as a threat, for all intent and purposes.

Their answer to the scriptures you posted is that the verses or the text in The Book of Mormon doesn't specifically indicate that Moroni buried the plates in the Hill Cumorah, where his father had buried the other plates. This is because their LGT Theory places the Hill in Central America. Thus they claim Moroni wandered northward and eastward until he finally arrived in present-day western New York where he buried the plates his father Mormon gave him. All this so the boy-prophet Joseph Smith Jr. didn't have to walk all the way to Mesoamerica to get the plates himself. - to paraphrase Elder Mark E. Peterson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. That would have been troublesome, but it wasn't for Moroni.

Except of course they forget Moroni Chapter 1 where Moroni stated he was still hiding from the Lamanites after he supposed he would not of written more. 

But they'll have an answer for that as well. It something along the lines that Moroni recovered the plates from the Hill Cumorah in Central America after burying them the first time, then hightails it northward where no Nephite had gone before in that Nation's 1,000 years of existence. It's bizarre.

Have fun. But I suggest you don't waste too much time here trying to convince them otherwise, as they won't allow themselves to be. Most are fascinated with scholarly works; you know tomes of papers with extensive footnotes. And since the LGT is based in that, anything of a lesser nature they consider to be dross. It's an industry all to its self. 

[ksfisher]

53 minutes ago, PeterPear said:

 

Except of course they forget Moroni Chapter 1 where Moroni stated he was still hiding from the Lamanites after he supposed he would not of written more. 

But they'll have an answer for that as well. It something along the lines that Moroni recovered the plates from the Hill Cumorah in Central America after burying them the first time, then hightails it northward where no Nephite had gone before in that Nation's 1,000 years of existence. It's bizarre.

 

What is it about Moroni writing that he is hiding from the Lamanites while writing Moroni 1 that would preclude him from traveling any great distance before burying the plates?  Do you suppose that he wrote all of Moroni at the very spot where he burried the plates?

And the Book of Mormon is full of people traveling where none had gone before.  Recall the travels of Jared and his friends.  Lehi and his family as well as the Mulekites.  All made long journies into the unknown.  What is to stop Moroni from making a similar long journey into the unknown?   Could he have not been led by the same God who guided others during their travels?

What's bizzare is that your post adds nothing to the conversation except to denigrate those who you do not agree with.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2016 by ksfisher

[mfbukowski]

6 hours ago, CV75 said:

And that is how Corianton had Shiz over a barrel.

Oh my gosh!!!   There is SO much I could do with that...... 

[BCSpace]

Quote

Assuming that Mormon did hide up the records at the Hill Cumorah (and there is no reason not think otherwise) then the Waters of Ripliancum could be nothing other than the Niagara Falls. Its approximately 70 miles from Niagara fall to the Hill Cumorah. Niagara Falls is the largest waterfall in the world in terms of water flow. Its an impressive site mentioned in the Book of Mormon as large or to exceed all.

It's possible. But I believe that the Hill Cumorah of the last battle to be a different hill geographically from the HIll Cumorah in upstate NY.  After all, Moroni did wander around for about 35 years after the last battle, and the plates, made of a gold alloy, probably weighed no more than 60 lbs if that.

[mfbukowski]

1 hour ago, PeterPear said:

Sam, you have to understand. The purpose of this board, I believe, was to promote a Mesoamerica Geography Theory for the Book of Mormon. Published LDS Apologists hang out here to defend it including the admins. They'll sit back and wait for any criticism of the theory then get into a verbal sparring match with you. These include BYU Professors with PhDs and such people of lesser classification, if one is into classifying people. So even if you quote scripture they have answers for it, including their followers. It's no secret. You may know this.

You can post nearly any criticsm of the Church you want, but if you criticize the LGT (Limited Geography Theory), you're on their "list." You're marked as a threat, for all intent and purposes.

Their answer to the scriptures you posted is that the verses or the text in The Book of Mormon doesn't specifically indicate that Moroni buried the plates in the Hill Cumorah, where his father had buried the other plates. This is because their LGT Theory places the Hill in Central America. Thus they claim Moroni wandered northward and eastward until he finally arrived in present-day western New York where he buried the plates his father Mormon gave him. All this so the boy-prophet Joseph Smith Jr. didn't have to walk all the way to Mesoamerica to get the plates himself. - to paraphrase Elder Mark E. Peterson of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles. That would have been troublesome, but it wasn't for Moroni.

Except of course they forget Moroni Chapter 1 where Moroni stated he was still hiding from the Lamanites after he supposed he would not of written more. 

But they'll have an answer for that as well. It something along the lines that Moroni recovered the plates from the Hill Cumorah in Central America after burying them the first time, then hightails it northward where no Nephite had gone before in that Nation's 1,000 years of existence. It's bizarre.

Have fun. But I suggest you don't waste too much time here trying to convince them otherwise, as they won't allow themselves to be. Most are fascinated with scholarly works; you know tomes of papers with extensive footnotes. And since the LGT is based in that, anything of a lesser nature they consider to be dross. It's an industry all to its self. 

Hey you got all those great ruins down there.  Gotta fit them in somewhere!

[Brant Gardner]

7 hours ago, PeterPear said:

Most are fascinated with scholarly works; you know tomes of papers with extensive footnotes. And since the LGT is based in that, anything of a lesser nature they consider to be dross.

Well--yes. Speaking only for myself (but I am sure there are others who agree), adhering to academic standards is a good thing. Are you really suggesting that the only way a North American geography for the Book of Mormon can be accepted is if you don't accept scholarship, footnotes, or actual evidence?

[sam]

13 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Except the text never says that Mormon buried the golden plates.  He burried the Nephite sacred records in the Hill Cumorah, but gave the records that we call the golden plates to his son Moroni.  This is recorded in Mormon 6:6.

I point this out, even though it is not the point of your OP, to highlight that you are not reading the text carefully.  

As to your OP about the Waters of Ripliancum; you've jumped from saying that since the text does not state that they are a river or a lake that it must be a waterfall.  What is to stop these waters from being a river or lake even if it isn't stated?  How about an ocean or estuary or any other body of water not mentioned in the text.

You seem to be trying so hard to fit the Book of Mormon into the Great Lakes region that you've stared with an answer and then formed a question for that answer to fit into.

 

If it was a lake or a river they would have called it a lake or a river.

[Buckeye]

14 hours ago, sam said:

Assuming that Mormon did hide up the records at the Hill Cumorah (and there is no reason not think otherwise) then the Waters of Ripliancum could be nothing other than the Niagara Falls. Its approximately 70 miles from Niagara fall to the Hill Cumorah. Niagara Falls is the largest waterfall in the world in terms of water flow. Its an impressive site mentioned in the Book of Mormon as large or to exceed all.

There are plenty of other impressive "waters" in the vicinity of modern-day Palmyra. I highly recommend letchworth state park. Yes, Niagara is the largest. But why assume that only the largest could fit the description? After all, the hill Cumorah near Joseph's home is far from the largest hill in the area.

   

 

 

 

 

[sam]

13 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Except the text never says that Mormon buried the golden plates.  He burried the Nephite sacred records in the Hill Cumorah, but gave the records that we call the golden plates to his son Moroni.  This is recorded in Mormon 6:6.

I point this out, even though it is not the point of your OP, to highlight that you are not reading the text carefully.  

As to your OP about the Waters of Ripliancum; you've jumped from saying that since the text does not state that they are a river or a lake that it must be a waterfall.  What is to stop these waters from being a river or lake even if it isn't stated?  HD&ow about an ocean or estuary or any other body of water not mentioned in the text.

You seem to be trying so hard to fit the Book of Mormon into the Great Lakes region that you've stared with an answer and then formed a question for that answer to fit into.

 

D&C54:8 place Lamanite borders is Missouri there is no reason not to assume the Hill Cumorah is not also where the Hill Cumorah is presently located and were the army of Coriantumr camped there army.

[sam]

7 minutes ago, Buckeye said:

There are plenty of other impressive "waters" in the vicinity of modern-day Palmyra. I highly recommend letchworth state park. Yes, Niagara is the largest. But why assume that only the largest could fit the description? After all, the hill Cumorah near Joseph's home is far from the largest hill in the area.

   

 

 

 

 

The waterfall is next to where Mormon hid the records or the Hill Cumorah. Of the places you mentioned how many are next to the Hill Cumorah.

11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

[sam]

14 hours ago, ksfisher said:

Verse 11 of what?

Where in the Book of Mormon does it say where Moroni buried the plates?  

When you say records what exactly are you refering to?  The Nephites had lots of records?

Moroni buried the plates in the Hill Cumorah where Joseph Smith retrieved the plates.

[CV75]

8 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Oh my gosh!!!   There is SO much I could do with that...... 

Are you channeling Snoop Dog?

[ksfisher]

48 minutes ago, sam said:

Moroni buried the plates in the Hill Cumorah where Joseph Smith retrieved the plates.

You didn't answer my qeustion.  Verse 11 of what?

[ksfisher]

1 hour ago, sam said:

If it was a lake or a river they would have called it a lake or a river.

You really missed the point of what I was saying.  However...by the same logic you are using; if it was a waterfall they would have called it a waterfall.

[Buckeye]

1 hour ago, sam said:

The waterfall is next to where Mormon hid the records or the Hill Cumorah. Of the places you mentioned how many are next to the Hill Cumorah.

11 And it came to pass that the army of Coriantumr did pitch their tents by the hill Ramah; and it was that same hill where my father Mormon did up the records unto the Lord, which were sacred.

I'd suggest you consult a map of the area. All of these locations (and many more) are as close or closer to Palmyra than is Niagara falls.