Significance of Moroni visiting Joseph four times?

[boblloyd91]

Hi all, I know that the scriptures and divine things often utilize numbers in a certain way, and was wondering after reading about Moroni's visit to Joseph he repeated his statements four times, three in the night and once in the morning. Weird question but one I'm curious about.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, boblloyd91 said:

Hi all, I know that the scriptures and divine things often utilize numbers in a certain way, and was wondering after reading about Moroni's visit to Joseph he repeated his statements four times, three in the night and once in the morning. Weird question but one I'm curious about.

Joseph was a teenager.

[mnn727]

The account sounds like a programmed hologram to me. But then I love Science Fiction.

[jkwilliams]

3 minutes ago, mnn727 said:

The account sounds like a programmed hologram to me. But then I love Science Fiction.

Help me, Joseph Smith, you're my only hope!

[hope_for_things]

2 hours ago, boblloyd91 said:

Hi all, I know that the scriptures and divine things often utilize numbers in a certain way, and was wondering after reading about Moroni's visit to Joseph he repeated his statements four times, three in the night and once in the morning. Weird question but one I'm curious about.

Maybe its because there are four seasons, and since his encounter with Moroni was on the day of the autumnal equinox, Moroni was visiting Joseph one time for every season?  Or maybe once for each of the four corners of our square world?  So many symbolic number possibilities....

[Kevin Christensen]

On February 10, 1961, with me six years old (a few months shy of seven), my family gathered round the TV to watch an episode of 77 Sunset Strip, "Once Upon a Caper" which I much later found was inspired by a Kurosawa film called "Rashomon" which I recently used for a Square Two essay.  While I had to look up the broadcast date to see exactly how old I was, I have vivid memories of several scenes and much of the dialogue in that episode, never mind that it was all way over my head.  I've talked with two of my brothers about it, and they both remember that same episode, and like me, they remember almost none of the others, though we watched regularly.  What made that one stick was that it repeated the same story three times, just shifting the narrator to different character each time.

You might find this little essay by Eggington helpful, particularly the bits on 13 and 14 on oral cultures and memory.

http://publications.mi.byu.edu/publications/PreliminaryReports/Scanned Set 2/Papers/William Eggington, Our Weakness in Writing, 1992.pdf

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Canonsburg, PA

Edited July 25, 2016 by Kevin Christensen

[boblloyd91]

2 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Maybe its because there are four seasons, and since his encounter with Moroni was on the day of the autumnal equinox, Moroni was visiting Joseph one time for every season?  Or maybe once for each of the four corners of our square world?  So many symbolic number possibilities....

Right, I've been looking at the number four in Hebrew Numerology and that's a few of the answers I found as well.

[Robert F. Smith]

9 hours ago, hope_for_things said:

Maybe its because there are four seasons, and since his encounter with Moroni was on the day of the autumnal equinox, Moroni was visiting Joseph one time for every season?  Or maybe once for each of the four corners of our square world?  So many symbolic number possibilities....

Moroni was a cousin of Vivaldi.

[Programmer]

10 hours ago, CV75 said:

Joseph was a teenager.

End of story.

[The Nehor]

So people asking how Joseph could remember it all would be stymied. Also so Joseph could remember it all.

[Calm]

1 hour ago, Programmer said:

End of story.

Wow, haven't seen you around for quite some time!

[Brant Gardner]

Since we do not know, and really can't know for sure, I'll speculate. I think it had to do with verifying that it was a true visitation. In Joseph's cultural environment, a dream that happened the same way three times was deemed revelation (once is a dream, two coincidence, three the real thing). The fourth appearance was either to have the same vision in daylight (and remove the question of dreaming)--or really was based on numbers and Moroni was a Mesoamerican who had a thing (as Mesoamericans were wont to do) for the number 4 (the number of perfection/completion).

Although I might wish this last reason, it is more likely that everything was for Joseph's and his family's perception--therefore they were probably repeated to verify that it was a true vision.

 

[boblloyd91]

23 hours ago, Brant Gardner said:

Since we do not know, and really can't know for sure, I'll speculate. I think it had to do with verifying that it was a true visitation. In Joseph's cultural environment, a dream that happened the same way three times was deemed revelation (once is a dream, two coincidence, three the real thing). The fourth appearance was either to have the same vision in daylight (and remove the question of dreaming)--or really was based on numbers and Moroni was a Mesoamerican who had a thing (as Mesoamericans were wont to do) for the number 4 (the number of perfection/completion).

Although I might wish this last reason, it is more likely that everything was for Joseph's and his family's perception--therefore they were probably repeated to verify that it was a true vision.

 

That's great thanks!

[theplains]

On 25/07/2016 at 0:30 PM, boblloyd91 said:

Hi all, I know that the scriptures and divine things often utilize numbers in a certain way, and was wondering after reading about Moroni's visit to Joseph he repeated his statements four times, three in the night and once in the morning. Weird question but one I'm curious about.

I wonder if Moroni was always floating in the air for all four supposed visits.

Jim

[mfbukowski]

 

Rev 14

Quote

 

 6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,

 7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worshiphim that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.

 

The angel preaches in the 4 cardinal directions to all the world, a work now carried on by our missionaries literally

4 directions 4 visits

The message went out to only one person, not the whole world at first, but now it IS going forth to all directions.  The angels are still carrying it on

Edited July 28, 2016 by mfbukowski

[Bernard Gui]

On July 25, 2016 at 9:00 PM, Robert F. Smith said:

Moroni was a cousin of Vivaldi.

Imagine a violinist on top of the temples. Now that's something I could get on board with.

 

[boblloyd91]

22 hours ago, theplains said:

I wonder if Moroni was always floating in the air for all four supposed visits.

Jim

Okay....why do you wonder that?

[theplains]

23 hours ago, boblloyd91 said:

Okay....why do you wonder that?

Nothing in particular.  Same thing was mentioned about the supposed first vision.

Jim

[strappinglad]

Maybe it's because holograms work best that way.

[theplains]

On 27/07/2016 at 11:33 PM, mfbukowski said:

 

Rev 14

The angel preaches in the 4 cardinal directions to all the world, a work now carried on by our missionaries literally

4 directions 4 visits

The message went out to only one person, not the whole world at first, but now it IS going forth to all directions.  The angels are still carrying it on

How is Revelation 14:7 relevant to Moroni?

Thanks,
Jim

[Jeanne]

On 7/27/2016 at 11:57 PM, Bernard Gui said:

Imagine a violinist on top of the temples. Now that's something I could get on board with.

 

As a former country western singer...I would like to have seen a big bass fiddle!

[mfbukowski]

32 minutes ago, theplains said:

How is Revelation 14:7 relevant to Moroni?

Thanks,
Jim

The church teaches that Moroni was the "other angel" flying to restore the gospel in the last days

[theplains]

On 01/08/2016 at 7:07 PM, mfbukowski said:

The church teaches that Moroni was the "other angel" flying to restore the gospel in the last days

Where do you see a restoration implied in that verse?

Thanks,
Jim